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[willigo]

Hi there,

I interviewed and got an academic job I really want in London. I plan on accepting but of course I'm worried about how much money I will need to live comfortably in one of the most expensive cities in the world. My spouse will also work full time. I have a young child so I will need a nanny/childcare. How much money should I budget to live? 100,000 pounds? I'll be moving from the US so this is all new to me.

Please don't laugh, but based on research on how expensive london is, here's my proposed annual budget (in pounds). Is it at all realistic?

Rent 41600 (living in central london)
Childcare 23400 (full time nanny)
Transportation   2000 (no car, walk to work or use tube)
Food 5200 (is 100 pounds a week for 3 realisitc?)
Utilities 2400 (are heating, electricity, garbage typically included in rent?)
Phone 1200
Insurance 3000 (will we need private health insurance?)
Pension   10000 (work will match contribution)
Clothes   2000
Entertainment 2400
Travel/Vacation   6800
Other expenses to consider?

One other question: I really can't believe how expensive renting is in London. Wouldn't it be cheaper to buy? Any thoughts on hidden costs of buying/renting in England?

Thank you for your help!

[snape]

Rent at 41,000- what are you renting? You must have been offered a superb salary. Rent doesn't usually include heating, electric etc.

Other things: Council tax (covers garbarge collection.)

No need for private health insurance, except dentist (but shouldn't cost £3000 a year).

[chocky]

It's been a while since I owned property in the UK, but I must admit my feeling is that if it costs the same in terms of monthly outgoings, then why not buy rather than rent? The stamp duty (one-off purchase tax payment) may be an issue. But there are no ongoing property taxes like in some US states (yes there is council tax, but I think that applies whether you rent or buy). There used to be a substantial tax benefit from having a mortgage, but I don't know whether that still applies. I also don't know if there are any restrictions in terms of non-nationals getting a mortgage. My knowledge is somewhat out of date. Maybe someone can give you a current picture of renting versus buying.

[expatinuk]

I think your transportation costs are too low, also your clothing costs for a family of 3. I assume that by phone you mean land line as well as mobile phone? Both  you and  your wife will need a mobile phone.

I was also interested in the salary ... *laugh* also what kind of salary you expect your spouse to get to afford a full time nanny at 23400.

By entertainment are you including eating out? I find eating out in the UK to be expensive. We usually spend at LEAST £60 for the two of us at a nice restaurant. A good Balty meal in Birmingham with no alcohol is about £40 for two.

Anyone who can afford it, buys a house in the UK.

[baoloa]

Briefly...

While it is difficult to make direct comparisons of costs, here are a few general guidelines for the difference in costs between London and CA:

Housing: London is rediculously expensive, maybe similar to Manhattan

Travel: very expensive in London, minimum £5 per day per person using the tube; you have to pay £8 simply to drive into central London, and maybe £20 to park your car for two hours. However, taxis are fairly reasonably priced, especially if you use "mini-cabs" (i.e. not the typical London "Black Cab").

Restaurants: Twice the price (even if you factor in a lower tip). However, it is nice to know that waiters/waitresses usually make a living wage, with all benefits, and do not have to beg from the customers.

Clothing: 50% extra, but more variety and styles available.

Utilities: similar to CA

Health: Free (with your taxes) - going private has few significant medical benefits, all the best doctors work for the National Health Service (because otherwise they don't get the kudos of being a "consultant") -- though they might also work privately.  You might, however, get a nicer room, or quicker treatment for non-urgent conditions if you have private insurance.

Dental: Similar to US. Dentists were never "nationalised", and have always been working on contract to the NHS, or independently.  Nowadays, you gets what you pays for.  Though very urgent treatment will be covered by the NHS (which does not guarantee a nice smile - only that you won't die from infection).

White goods: Much, much, better in quality and price than in CA, and cheaper (I just love my washer/dryer; good riddance to bizarre crazy antiquated US washing machines).  I just know there is a market in someone showing Americans how household goods should really be...

Furniture and household fabrics: This is something that baffles me.  All kinds of household stuff like furniture, curtains, sheets, towels, duvets (comforters), etc, are much cheaper, and with good quality comparisons, in London than in CA.

Schools: Similar, if you are used to having to go private in order to get decent education; much cheaper if you are lucky to live in the right neighbourhood.

Enjoy!

[expatinuk]

White goods: Much, much, better in quality and price than in CA, and cheaper (I just love my washer/dryer; good riddance to bizarre crazy antiquated US washing machines).  I just know there is a market in someone showing Americans how household goods should really be...

Furniture and household fabrics: This is something that baffles me.  All kinds of household stuff like furniture, curtains, sheets, towels, duvets (comforters), etc, are much cheaper, and with good quality comparisons, in London than in CA.

I think that these two things are something that are 'in the eye of the beholder' because I find that UK/European appliances are pretty awful. Yes, they are energy efficient... but a washer/dryer takes about 2 hour to do a load of laundry and you can't fit many clothes in at one time. Most Brits I know seem to have laundry strung all over their house to dry. I had an European washer/dryer and got rid of it to spend a horrible amount of money for an American set.

I find furniture in the UK to be poorly made. I also import ALL my linens (sheets and towels) from the States because the quality is much higher. But I don't buy cheap stuff in the US. I usually buy from The Company Store and go with brands such as Charisma from Fieldcrest or Wamsutta.

Most things in the UK are dollars for pounds.

Enjoy your move...

[seniorscholar]

Actually, especially if you have children, you will find clothing both better and much much cheaper in the US. One of my UK friends (not originally from North America) always comes to an annual US conference that I regularly attend at the end of the summer. Spouse always comes along, and spends one of the conference days filling a couple of extra duffel bags brought along in a suitcase with purchases from a big mall. For jeans, t-shirts, sweat socks, athletic shoes, sweatshirts and athletic gear, underwear, and other such basics for three school-age children, spouse (1) makes them happy to have US stuff and (2) saves more than enough money to pay for transatlantic air fare to the conference.

[science_expat]

I do almost all my clothes shopping in the States at a yearly conference - also using the empty suitcase trick.

[anon23]

congrats on getting the job!
For those who been in London for a while, any tips on where to get a good mortgage, especially for non-UK/EU members?
Have anyone taken up a part buy/part rent deal before? how does that work? Thanks!

[sir_lancelot]

White goods: Much, much, better in quality and price than in CA, and cheaper (I just love my washer/dryer; good riddance to bizarre crazy antiquated US washing machines).  I just know there is a market in someone showing Americans how household goods should really be...

I think that these two things are something that are 'in the eye of the beholder' because I find that UK/European appliances are pretty awful. Yes, they are energy efficient... but a washer/dryer takes about 2 hour to do a load of laundry and you can't fit many clothes in at one time. Most Brits I know seem to have laundry strung all over their house to dry. I had an European washer/dryer and got rid of it to spend a horrible amount of money for an American set.

Enjoy your move...

The difference is that European washers actually clean your clothes and don't rip them apart.

[expatinuk]

White goods: Much, much, better in quality and price than in CA, and cheaper (I just love my washer/dryer; good riddance to bizarre crazy antiquated US washing machines).  I just know there is a market in someone showing Americans how household goods should really be...

I think that these two things are something that are 'in the eye of the beholder' because I find that UK/European appliances are pretty awful. Yes, they are energy efficient... but a washer/dryer takes about 2 hour to do a load of laundry and you can't fit many clothes in at one time. Most Brits I know seem to have laundry strung all over their house to dry. I had an European washer/dryer and got rid of it to spend a horrible amount of money for an American set.

Enjoy your move...

The difference is that European washers actually clean your clothes and don't rip them apart.

Wow... again our experiences are completely different. I've found EU washers don't clean as well, mainly because they do not have as many rise cycles. I've never had any washer EU or American rip my clothes apart.

[dimpled_eggplant]

I also import ALL my linens (sheets and towels) from the States because the quality is much higher. But I don't buy cheap stuff in the US. I usually buy from The Company Store and go with brands such as Charisma from Fieldcrest or Wamsutta.

LOL, expat, we should team up! I get all my sheets from Europe since you can't buy decent sheets in the US!!

[porcupine]

Personally, if I moved back to the UK and could afford it, I would get private health insurance. Having had some truly appalling experiences as an NHS patient, and having heard of an awful lot more from friends and family, I don't think it can hurt - except for your bank balance, obviously.

You will need insurance for dental care as it is almost impossible to see an NHS dentist these days (my parents moved house from one UK town to another two years ago, and they are still waiting to have their first appointment with their new dentist). Another advantage of private insurance is that you should be able to arrange a private GP, to whom you can go if you need to see a doctor for routine health checks. My last UK GP, in a large Northern city, could only offer 3 minute appointments, which - with the best will in the world - were more of a hindrance than a help. I also couldn't get an appointment inside of a week, under any circumstances (on a couple of occasions I was advised to present myself at A&E instead of seeing my doctor, because he didn't have any free space in his appointment book for a fortnight). Finally, although the system does eventually get around to seeing you for hospital treatment, having private insurance is helpful if you want a biopsy, similar test, or minor surgery done quickly. You can always arrange these without insurance, but - like anywhere - if you don't have insurance and you end up needing quite a bit of treatment, things can get expensive fast. I would start looking with BUPA, but there are quite a few providers these days.

Please note - I am not knocking the NHS system for the sake of it! My point is simply that if you want to have fast access to treatment, it is worth paying for private care.

OP, as regards a budget - it all depends on how well you want to live and what your disposable income will be. It is expensive to rent any kind of accommodation in London, but you may prefer to do that for a year or two and see how you settle in, rather than committing to a mortgage or sinking a lot of money into property straight away.

Council tax applies whether you buy or rent. There used to be a great website called upmystreet dot com that gave good information on utilities, house prices and schools and so on in a particular area - that might help.

[willigo]

Thanks for all of your input. I really appreciate the various points.

My job is through a business school so the salary may be a bit higher than other academic positions. I know that 41K for rent seems crazy (!) but it seems to be the going rate for a 3 bedroom flat in central London.

My spouse works in marketing. I have no idea what the average salaries are for a mid-level manager in marketing in London. It seems they may be lower than in the States? does between 35,000-50,000 pounds seem right?

I also have no idea what the going rate for a nanny is, I pulled that number from a craigslist want ad.

Is it right that everyone under 65 in the UK has a tax free allowance of 5K? and that there is a children's benefit of 17 pounds a week? finally, if my job is UK based will I have to pay any US taxes?

thanks again for your help!!!

[sueenglish]

Hi willigo

Congrats on the job! The nanny salary sounds ok to me - but there was an article in the Times saying that nannies in London who live out would possibly get around £28K!

Yes, the first 5K is tax free, then the tax bands are incremental - from 10% through to 40%. You might want to check out the inland revenue website for fine details.