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[chronicle_moderator]

College seniors averaged a big fat F on a recent multiple-choice test of their knowledge of American history, politics, and economics sponsored by the Intercollegiate Studies Institute, a conservative think tank. In fact, at some universities, seniors scored worse than freshmen. The institute went straight to the news media with its results, but skeptics of the study point out that it was not peer-reviewed and that only a portion of the test questions have been released. Is the study cause for concern about national decline, or just one more in a series of jeremiads that are intended more to score political points than to improve higher education? Should colleges require more history and civics courses?
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[larryc]

C'mon, Mods, keep up--we discussed this weeks ago, in a post from our own beloved Fym22: http://chronicle.com/forums/index.php/topic,29540.0.html

My take was that the "study" is bogus, a conservative hit job:

The ISI which funded the report is a right-wing think tank.  Which doesn't invalidate it right off the bat, but it makes me suspicious. My guess is that their test of historical knowledge emphasized the traditional, flag-waving narrative that kids get in high school and ignores all the new social history that have so illuminated our understanding of the past in the last 30 years.

 Maybe later I will go to their website and see what they have to say, but this reeks of Horowitz and his ilk.

Then a bit later:

OK, I found the report and press release.  (http://www.americancivicliteracy.org/index.html) The latter reads in part: College freshmen and seniors at 50 of the nation’s colleges and universities were asked 60 multiple choice questions about (1) America’s history; (2) government; (3) America and the world; and (4) the market economy. The average overall score for college seniors was 53.2 percent, just 1.5 percent higher than the average overall score for freshmen, which was 51.7 percent. Both scores represent failure by a wide margin on a traditional grading scale. More significantly, the results demonstrate that colleges and universities are failing to advance students’ knowledge teach students about their country’s history and founding principles. At 16 of the schools, the freshmen actually scored higher than the seniors.

So I click around the very extensive website looking for the test itself--and it isn't there!  A ton of money obviously went into this hit job I mean survey, yet we don't get to see the instrument that this supposedly scientific survey used to achieve its (predetermined) results.  Could it be that the questions were slanted towards conservative themes and interpretations of American history? I am calling B.S. on the whole thing.

I am really surprised to see the Chronicle taking the study at face value.  Only near the end of the article do we discover that the ISI refuses to release more than a few "sample questions" from their supposed comprehensive study. Sad to find the Chronicle practicing the transcription school of journalism.

[solly]

To the non-American observer such as myself, recent U.S. legislation which annuls Habeas Corpus and allows for extreme interrogation techniques seems prima facie evidence of a shortfall in History education and the Humanities in general.

I get the impression that younger bloggers do not understand the long and arduous process of acquiring these essential guarantees. On younger, right-wing blogs, they seem to welcome their overturn without thought to the historical examples of the ramifications.

My own country, New Zealand, suffers the same malaise.

Roper: So now you'd give the Devil benefit of law.
More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil? Roper: I'd cut down every law in England to do that.
More: Oh? And when the last law was down--and the Devil turned round on you--where would you hide? Yes, I'd give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety's sake.
Robert Bolt : A Man for All Seasons

[historian1]

The ignorance of the present generation of college students is saddening.  Our culture values a college degree but not a college education.  There is a difference. 

[larryc]

The ignorance of the present generation of college students is saddening. 

And how is that different from any other generation of college students? Do you have any hard data that today's are worse?

[cloudsonelephants1]

One thing I find interesting is the lack of knowledge of history even by sitting appellate and other judges. The Holocaust is widely discussed and concern is expressed that it be remembered, but look at many current cases.

What was the source of some antisemitism in Germany?

The ideas behind antisemitism included concepts like

Jews are wealthy, help eachother, and have a conspiracy

But some judges regularly jail government politicians who it is said

are wealthy, help eachother, conspire to help their friends

I find the lack of historical recollection that we "do" have similarities in ideology with the ideas of those who were anti semitic in Germany to be interesting. Even among those who know historical facts, the facts might not mean anything at all. The facts are irrelevant baggage for some, including me, that really do not effect everyday life.

James T. Struck

[t_folk]

I'm not sure as to whether or not our students' knowledge is less than preceeding generations (I'm not sure about how a study of such a claim could be carried out), but I do agree with the poster who noted the difference in the college degree v/s the college education. I'm so tired of hearing students complain about "having" to take this course or that. I tell them that they don't "have" to take anything at all - that a college education is a choice and a priviledge. Their response: blank stares, mouths agape, as though a gentle wind is blowing through one ear and out the other. Sigh ...

[jtsmr]

The ignorance of the present generation of college students is saddening.  Our culture values a college degree but not a college education.  There is a difference. 

I think this is probably some of the most intelligent responding I've seen in a while on the forum. My students feel the same way, and they wonder why on earth do they have to be in university!

I'm not sure as to whether or not our students' knowledge is less than preceeding generations (I'm not sure about how a study of such a claim could be carried out), but I do agree with the poster who noted the difference in the college degree v/s the college education. I'm so tired of hearing students complain about "having" to take this course or that. I tell them that they don't "have" to take anything at all - that a college education is a choice and a priviledge. Their response: blank stares, mouths agape, as though a gentle wind is blowing through one ear and out the other. Sigh ...

Don't you hate those blank stares and mouths agape? It's like you're teaching The Living Dead. What you state here is painfully true. I'll get into trouble for saying this but, also having taught overseas, I find American students to be as uninterested in their own history than international students. Can we blame our students? It would be unfair to do so.  What does society teach our children?: Success by any means necessary.

[dark_globe]

One of ISI's publications is called "All American Colleges." Here is a comment from the page advertising it:

"All-American Colleges is a terrific guide to help conservatives choose a college that’s not committed to left-wing indoctrination. If you graduate from one of these lesser-known schools, you might even become president of the United States-just like Ronald Reagan did.”
— Phyllis Schlafly

http://www.isi.org/books/bookdetail.aspx?id=f265b43c-5b48-4a57-b740-2fd310414b27

[t_folk]

 Don't you hate those blank stares and mouths agape? It's like you're teaching The Living Dead. What you state here is painfully true. I'll get into trouble for saying this but, also having taught overseas, I find American students to be as uninterested in their own history than international students. Can we blame our students? It would be unfair to do so.  What does society teach our children?: Success by any means necessary.
[/quote]

It's what happens when we allow the insane to run the asylum. Until people are ready to stand up and say that we are not going to allow ourselves to be ruined by cheap entertainment, the en masse celebration of ignorance, and the dismantling of our education system by non-educators, we will continue to be cultural and academic bottom feeders on the world stage. I am a patriot, but I'm at the point where that daydream of moving to Ireland and teaching grammar school is starting to look like the only way I may preserve what little sanity I have left. But, good luck getting academics to stand to work together or take unified stand on anything. We talk a big game, but very few actually want to get their hands dirty when it comes to matters of political reform.

[jtsmr]

Don't you hate those blank stares and mouths agape? It's like you're teaching The Living Dead. What you state here is painfully true. I'll get into trouble for saying this but, also having taught overseas, I find American students to be as uninterested in their own history than international students. Can we blame our students? It would be unfair to do so.  What does society teach our children?: Success by any means necessary.

It's what happens when we allow the insane to run the asylum. Until people are ready to stand up and say that we are not going to allow ourselves to be ruined by cheap entertainment, the en masse celebration of ignorance, and the dismantling of our education system by non-educators, we will continue to be cultural and academic bottom feeders on the world stage. I am a patriot, but I'm at the point where that daydream of moving to Ireland and teaching grammar school is starting to look like the only way I may preserve what little sanity I have left. But, good luck getting academics to stand to work together or take unified stand on anything. We talk a big game, but very few actually want to get their hands dirty when it comes to matters of political reform.
[/quote]

Well, yes, of course, most academics are only interested ....well, wait a minute.... they're self-interested! Why in the world would they be involved themselves in anything that does not promote them. That's a bit harsh but it comes from someone who's had an "on/off" relationship with Academe for years.

You should explore that Irish fancy you got there.

[joehardy]

Sure the study is flawed and the ISI does have an agenda, but . . .
American college students are horribly weak in history and that's not a recent development.
It will get even worse when we encounter as freshmen the first products of No Child Left Behind where the study of history (or social studies or whatever) is not a factor; only reading scores and math scores count. I've read of many schools not only cutting back art and music programs to put more resources into prepping students for the NCLB standardized tests, but also social studies classes because those areas are not tested.
We apparently no longer value that which can not be measured on a test taken with a #2 pencil.
Sad.

[warmaiden]

The ignorance of the present generation of college students is saddening.  Our culture values a college degree but not a college education.  There is a difference. 

Unfortunately, apparently we haven't done enough to make students understand the difference. very few of the students I come across are interested in learning, improving themselves through knowledge. They get the college degree because they need a job, a job requires it, and that's often as deep as it goes. it is unfortunate that somewhere along the way most of our students have lost the light of learning and the excitement of intellectual inquiry.

(Yes, I know I sound like a giant old-timer ivory tower hippie. I'm actually a young, conservative librarian who is aghast every time a university senior walks into our giant library and proudly announces that they've never been here to do research, EVER. As if it were something administration were giving out awards for. *shudder*)

[csguy]

The ignorance of the present generation of college students is saddening.  Our culture values a college degree but not a college education.  There is a difference. 

Unfortunately, apparently we haven't done enough to make students understand the difference. very few of the students I come across are interested in learning, improving themselves through knowledge. They get the college degree because they need a job, a job requires it, and that's often as deep as it goes. it is unfortunate that somewhere along the way most of our students have lost the light of learning and the excitement of intellectual inquiry.

(Yes, I know I sound like a giant old-timer ivory tower hippie. I'm actually a young, conservative librarian who is aghast every time a university senior walks into our giant library and proudly announces that they've never been here to do research, EVER. As if it were something administration were giving out awards for. *shudder*)

As opposed to the good ol' days where students came to the university to grow up, party, meet a mate, and acquire enough learning to carry on cocktail party conversations?

The percentage of students who are really interested in learning is pretty low at most schools (there's some exceptions -- places like CalTech and MIT come to mind -- there may be equivalents for the social sciences). Always has been. Methusaleh was a good student but Noah ...

[larryc]

Methusaleh was a good student but Noah ...

I love that.  Bless you, Csguy!