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[merce]

So, my campus is putting together some events to promote international awareness.
They have just sent out an invitation about the evening program, dinner in a dorm, called "Flavors of the Orient."  I find this kind of icky, or, highly problematic. If you don't know why then ask and I'll draw an outline if I can.
I'm wondering if I could shoot off a very nice, diplomatic email to the organizer of the affair and ask if they might not be able to change the term "Orient" to "Asian." should I just let it all go?

What might I be able to say to diplomatically bring up the topic w/ the people promoting this.  I'm also now thinking if this is just # 1 in a series I'm a little worried about what is coming next.

[phdiva628]

How about a gentle nudge:

"Hey, someone mentioned to me that some people might feel X way about the way that is phrased. I'm sure that wasn't your intention, but how about..."

Conversely, some people are tired of others' being offended on their behalf for things that don't bother them, so I understand the dilemma.

[kaysixteen]

Get a life.  We all know where the 'Orient' is, and it ain't Kazakhstan.  The latter, however, is certainly within 'Asia'.  Sooner or later, we have to stop kowtowing to silly self-righteous nutjobs who will take offense at anything, just to bully their way to whatever goals or agendas they have, and/or feel superior to the rest of us slobs.

[expatinuk]

The term Asian means different things to different people. In the UK I offended a student of Chinese decent when I called him Asian... here Asian means from the Indian subcontinent.

[adhoc]

I'm wondering if I could shoot off a very nice, diplomatic email to the organizer of the affair and ask if they might not be able to change the term "Orient" to "Asian." should I just let it all go?

Well the words are not synonyms, so you would be changing the meaning.  Which more correctly describes the nature of the proposed event?

And, perhaps you could explain what the problem is in the first place?

[anthroid]

The problem is that "orient" is seen by many folks as offensive since it is a Eurocentric term, as pointed out  (over and over and over again, it must be admitted) by Edward Said.  merce's concern is a legitimate one.  An intellectual community ought to be respectful enough to call people what they want to be called, not to name everything that darn old political correctness crap and continue to use terms that have no meaning in today's political climate.  While Edward Said did not represent everyone east of Europe by any means, most folks, at least in the social sciences and humanities, understand the dilemma.  merce is concerned that the wrong, disrespectful message is being sent.

On the other hand, it's probably going to consist of rotten Chinese food and some tempura.  I'd leave it alone.  No one will change it anyway.

[adhoc]

The problem is that "orient" is seen by many folks as offensive since it is a Eurocentric term, as pointed out  (over and over and over again, it must be admitted) by Edward Said.  merce's concern is a legitimate one.  An intellectual community ought to be respectful enough to call people what they want to be called, not to name everything that darn old political correctness crap and continue to use terms that have no meaning in today's political climate.  While Edward Said did not represent everyone east of Europe by any means, most folks, at least in the social sciences and humanities, understand the dilemma.  merce is concerned that the wrong, disrespectful message is being sent.

On the other hand, it's probably going to consist of rotten Chinese food and some tempura.  I'd leave it alone.  No one will change it anyway.

OK.  I'm not familiar with Said but I understand that "Oriental" means different things to different people.  As I understand it, it can refer to southwest, south, or southeast Asia, or combinations of those regions.  In any event, does saying "Asian" instead really help?

It has become common, in the US at least, to refer to the race of people from southeast Asia as "Asian;" expatinuk says that in the UK "Asian" refers to India, et al. But could not "Asian" mean people and customs from Asia?  Russia, for example, is mostly in Asia.  If one says "Asian," does that include Russians?

[supernumerary]

An intellectual community ought to be respectful enough to call people what they want to be called <snip>

I think the problem is, and has always been, that different people in the same group want to be called different things, and also people keep changing their views about what they want to be called.

[phdiva628]

An intellectual community ought to be respectful enough to call people what they want to be called <snip>

I think the problem is, and has always been, that different people in the same group want to be called different things, and also people keep changing their views about what they want to be called.

Amen.

[merce]

Orient = east
east implies a center to which there is a west and to which there is a east
ergo
Orient implies something not the "Orient" is the CENTER of the world.
SO, Europe/US is the center of the world.
The state I am in now seems to indeed feel it is the center of the world and I am on a committee attempting to raise the awareness of the fact that there are blue states out there, not everyone is the same and there are furn (foreign) people here in the US and these little places on the globe that are not the US and yet are not to be destroyed.


I don't think it is about what "they" want to be called. The problem to me is _I_ am offended by euro/UScentrism myself. I don't need to be black to be offended by the N-word; I don't need to be Asian to be offended by the use of "Oriental" etc. And that is the message I would like students (and people) to understand.
And indeed, the idea is to have a "Flavors of the Orient" event that serves greasy eggrolls and terriyaki chicken and calls this bringing international awareness to campus.
No, I won't say anything though I think something should be said.
I mean dude, it's 2006...the whole thing sounds oh so Columbus letters or Marco Polo or Prester John

[supernumerary]

I don't think it is about what "they" want to be called. The problem to me is _I_ am offended by euro/UScentrism myself.

Merce, not sure your example works: isn't there a difference between words generally accepted as offensive (like the N word) and words like 'Orient' which are not generally accepted as offensive?

I'm going by my dictionary here, which flags up offensive words (like the N word) but doesn't flag up Orient or Oriental as offensive. I do understand that dictionaries are not social barometers, but I think it illustrates the distinction I'm trying to draw here.

While I agree that we should protest against offensive language, surely we need some ground other than just an individual saying '_I_ find it offensive'.

[adhoc]

SO, Europe/US is the center of the world.

No, Europe and the US are in the occident, or west. Asia is the eastern-most continent in the combined land mass of Europe/Asia/Africa. How is it offensive -- to anyone -- to acknowledge that?

[anthroid]

SO, Europe/US is the center of the world.

No, Europe and the US are in the occident, or west. Asia is the eastern-most continent in the combined land mass of Europe/Asia/Africa. How is it offensive -- to anyone -- to acknowledge that?

And, yet, amazingly, despite adhoc's question, many folks are in fact offended by a Eurocentric term.  Imagine that.  It isn't just merce.

The use of the term Asian for "Oriental" has become quite common across the country and the world over the last, say, 20 years.  It is not a matter of "those people" changing "their" minds about the manner in which they wish to be referred.  Oriental is in fact understood as offensive; just check your local census form for what is used.

[supernumerary]

many folks are in fact offended by a Eurocentric term. 

Why, exactly?

[anthroid]

many folks are in fact offended by a Eurocentric term. 

Why, exactly?

Well, since Europe is in fact not the center of the world.  When I say "folks," I am referring to those who might be otherwise called "Oriental" because it is silly for them to be offended by the term.