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[notranslation]

I'm not saying whether I'm male or female, because either way, it is odd to me in this day and age when I see a department that is entirely male, esp. in my field. I want to apply to a school that has this situation, b/c it is a good school. But I can't help thinking it's a bad sign that no women work in the department (it would be the same if I saw all white people working there). Is there any diplomatic way to gauge this situation with the SC if I do get an interview there (in terms of departmental relations, etc.)?

Thanks!

BL

[much_metta]

Try turning it on its ear for a moment:  Would you have the same thoughts about applying to an all-female department? 

Some of the issues are the same, but some are clearly different.  For example, many universities turn a blind eye to female-heavy or all-female departments because it helps them to appear in aggregate-level data like they are more successful at recruiting and retaining women overall than they actually are.  Ironically, all-female departments are just as in need of gender diversity as all-male departments, but hiring a male can actually count against the university given that "gender diversity" is often measured entirely as the percentage of women. 

That said, if it is an all-male department, you can ask some questions you probably couldn't if it were all-female.  For example, you could ask about the university's commitment to diversity and what administrators think about the all-male department.  You could even be sly about it.  Since many people are of the same opinion as you--that all-male departments are both rare and suspect--you wonder how strongly administrators lobby on behalf of the department.  Do they call attention to the department and advocate for it, or do they ignore it and hope others will too? 

Are there special monies available at the university level to make a "diversity" hire, in this case a woman.  If so, then the department might actually be in a good position to expand relative to others at the university.  If nothing else, their responses should tell you how much they've at least thought about the issue (if at all). 

If the university has an AAUP chapter, they might be a good source of inside information on the issue, too.  Also, take a careful look at the benefits package.  Often, there are certain red flags that keep women from accepting offers or that encourage them to leave (e.g., certain health plans that don't cover various aspects of reproductive health). 

[cgfunmathguy]

I have some general thoughts on this, some of which will probably seem contradictory (they usually do once I start to ramble).

1.  It is possible that they are a group of sexists. In this day and age, it would be difficult to believe, but it would be possible.

2.  Another possibility is that they haven't found the "right" woman to join their department. The requirements to be "Ms. Dr. Right" (to use European titling) may be an eclectic mix of many things. They could be looking for someone who fits in their niche (one regional university in the northeast hires only topologists in the math department) and nothing else. Just as an aside, there are not many female PhD topologists in the world.

3.  It could be that they have not had a woman apply for a position there, and in these days of tracking numbers, they might actually jump at the chance to hire any qualified woman.

I would suggest that the general feeling that you get during the interview would be the best way to gauge. If you are able to have some informal chats with members of the faculty and feel especially comfortable with any in particular, this would be the time to broach the subject. Occasionally, a faculty member might bring it up, but it is much more likely that you would need to ask if the opportunity presented itself.

[dr_strangelove]

Couple of other things.

How big is the department? A department of 50 with no women members is a lot more anomalous than a department of 5.

How longstanding is the current situation? There were no women in my department when I was hired, but it turns out that was an abberation. One thing you might look at is what the faculty roster was like 5, 10, 15 years ago.

[larryc]

It is a little odd, but I wouldn't let that deter you from applying.  Hopefully, they are aware of the imbalance, and are seeking to correct in with this hire.  It could play in your favor. If you get a campus interview, it might not be a bad question to ask them, politely and non-judgementally.

[mathperson]

I have some general thoughts on this, some of which will probably seem contradictory (they usually do once I start to ramble).

1.  It is possible that they are a group of sexists. In this day and age, it would be difficult to believe, but it would be possible.

2.  Another possibility is that they haven't found the "right" woman to join their department. The requirements to be "Ms. Dr. Right" (to use European titling) may be an eclectic mix of many things. They could be looking for someone who fits in their niche (one regional university in the northeast hires only topologists in the math department) and nothing else. Just as an aside, there are not many female PhD topologists in the world.

This is not true. There is a 50/50 split between male and female students in graduate level. There are several very famous female topologists - Karen Uhlenbeck (UT Austin), Joan Birman (Columbia), and Abigail Thompson (UC-Davis), just to name a few.  This encourages many women to study topology.
However, many of them don't stick around.

If you see an all male department, I would not want to be a member. There is no reason to have an all male department - even in topology, because there are qualified women. If there are no women, its because they don't want women in the department - and you probably don't want to be there. If they can't get any women to stay in the department - there is probably a reason why women won't stay or accept positions.  Math departments (top-rated) have about 2 women per 50 people.

No one is (most of the time) going to openly discriminate, but here are some of things I have experienced as a woman and a topologist. 

Insinuations that my advisor did my research.

Being given the wrong address for a restaurant - for a dinner with an invited speaker.

Having the organizers of the departmental seminar forget to mention that there was a dinner.

Having a fellow graduate student speak to me exactly once - to ask me out - and then not speak to me for the next 3 years.  (Obviously, I said no.)

Having a younger male graduate student refer to me by the proper title of Miss So-And-So while I was attempting to explain my research project to a senior professor. (The student wanted to make sure I was aware of my lack of status and yes, he was American - this was not a cultural issue.)

Attending a seminar group that did not speak to ANY of the women - for six months.

No invitations to conferences - they "forget" until I remind them.

The general strategy seems to be: if they ignore you then eventually you will leave the field.

[helpful]

It seems to me that, tongue firmly in cheek, that topologists are by definition male. Aren't the males always on top of the world?

Since I don't have the foggiest clue what a topologist is, i resort to humor?

Can a topologist enlighten me?

[dr_strangelove]

As the old joke goes, a topologist is someone who can't tell the difference between a doughnut and a coffee cup.

Mmmmm....doughnuts.

[kaysixteen]

You are not seriously arguing that a woman be hired just because she is a woman, are you, unless she is objectively the best applicant for the job?  I know you would never allow me to argue that a man should be hired over a woman, were she the objectively superior candidate?  BTW, that grad student who asked you out, was rejected, and then did not speak to you for three more years was acting intelligently.  He probably figured additional comments made to you would be interpreted by you as sexual harassment or even stalking, the same way you obviously see misogynistic slights in every mistake made by a male colleague, such as when you are accidentally not specifically informed of a department dinner party.

[cgfunmathguy]

This is not true. There is a 50/50 split between male and female students in graduate level. There are several very famous female topologists - Karen Uhlenbeck (UT Austin), Joan Birman (Columbia), and Abigail Thompson (UC-Davis), just to name a few.  This encourages many women to study topology.
However, many of them don't stick around.

First of all, I was not addressing grad students; I specifically stated that there are few women PhD topologists. This also does not say that they are not good; in fact, the only woman I know in topology is very good. Most of the women I know in mathematics are algebraists with a few analysts thrown in. Very few are topologists. The names you gave me are unknown to me (I'm not a topologist). They may be very well known in topology. However, I can tell you that no woman in my grad-school cohort had heard of them, and therefore, knowing (or not) that there were successful female topologists did not encourage these women to study topology. They studied topology because the graduate program coordinator was a topologist and twisted arms to make sure the topology classes filled.

If you see an all male department, I would not want to be a member. There is no reason to have an all male department - even in topology, because there are qualified women. If there are no women, its because they don't want women in the department - and you probably don't want to be there. If they can't get any women to stay in the department - there is probably a reason why women won't stay or accept positions.  Math departments (top-rated) have about 2 women per 50 people.

Yes, the math department at my grad school had 2 women in a department of 25 (or so) f/t profs. They were an algebraist and an analyst. However, if the department in question in the northeast has about 12 f/t people and only hires topologists, how many women would they have when the top-rated departments have 4% women between all sub-disciplines of mathematics?

No one is (most of the time) going to openly discriminate, but here are some of things I have experienced as a woman and a topologist. 

Insinuations that my advisor did my research.

Being given the wrong address for a restaurant - for a dinner with an invited speaker.

Having the organizers of the departmental seminar forget to mention that there was a dinner.

Having a fellow graduate student speak to me exactly once - to ask me out - and then not speak to me for the next 3 years.  (Obviously, I said no.)

Having a younger male graduate student refer to me by the proper title of Miss So-And-So while I was attempting to explain my research project to a senior professor. (The student wanted to make sure I was aware of my lack of status and yes, he was American - this was not a cultural issue.)

Attending a seminar group that did not speak to ANY of the women - for six months.

No invitations to conferences - they "forget" until I remind them.

The general strategy seems to be: if they ignore you then eventually you will leave the field.

Being a b**** generally gets you treated poorly by others, especially by men. The one female topologist I know never experienced any of this at a large, Southern R1. As the saying goes, you get more flies with honey than vinegar.

[dr_crankypants]

Personally, I would go ahead and apply.  You'll be able to gauge the situation much better after an interview.  But I would certainly keep my eyes open. 

I would have qualms about an all male department (assuming that we're talking about a department of a decent size--it's not a great sign in a department of five, but as Dr. Strangelove pointed out, it's not as bad as in a department of 25 or 50).  I'm currently in a heavily male department, and there are certainly times where it shows.  I would certainly be doubly nervous if the department then explained it by saying that there aren't enough good women in the field, that they don't get female applicants, or that they're just waiting for the "right woman."  This may be true in a few limited fields, but yet other departments seem to have a much easier time managing to find qualified female candidates.  I don't mean to say that they're actively discriminating against women, but they should take a good, long hard look at themselves and why their department either a) isn't recruiting women in proportion to their numbers in the field, or b) why they believe that the available women are not "good enough" for their department.
Some of the posters have suggested that it might be easier to get a job in such a department.  There may be some truth to that claim, though personally, I have my doubts (departments that have a history of hiring males don't seem to change this pattern quickly).  But the broader question is whether you'd want to work in that kind of department.

[helpful]

But you never said what a topologist was!

[larryc]

Are all the existing faculty very senior? This could be another, partial answer to the imbalance, that everyone hired in the department came on back when there were not that many women in the field.  Again, it may be a sexist department, but don't assume the worst.

[notranslation]

Wow, thanks for all the replies. I had no idea there would end up being a (rather grumpy) discussion on female topologists! Just wanted to respond to this:

1)

Try turning it on its ear for a moment:  Would you have the same thoughts about applying to an all-female department? 
. 

No, I probably wouldn't have the same thoughts about this. I don't think it's the same. Women are usually the minority, men are not.  W/o giving anything away, let's just say that I worked in a very "macho" type department in the past, and it spooks me to think about returning to that environment. I know it's not right or fair to think that just because there are all men working there, it implies sexism. It does strike me as odd because my discipline seems to heavily  favor females (humanities field).

2)

Are all the existing faculty very senior? This could be another, partial answer to the imbalance, that everyone hired in the department came on back when there were not that many women in the field.  Again, it may be a sexist department, but don't assume the worst.

There are several schools where I've seen this (about 3). Well, I won't count one, because it's a men's school and at least has some female visiting profs. But yes, in one of the departments, there are 4 men, all of whom appear to be older, w/ the rank of assoc. or prof. You're right...that is something else to take into account. Thanks.

BL

[phdiva628]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topologist

I wanted to know, too.