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[dagny]

Okay, long story short: Student is disruptive in class, I get complaints, so I e-mail student instructing her firmly yet blandly to stop her chatter. (Her attendance is spotty and I wanted to make sure she got the message pronto). She responds in a terribly inappropriate e-mail response, calls me 'rude,' provides ridiculous suggestions for how I should handle the class, and accuses me of unfairly singling her out. (I also e-mailed her accomplice, but got no response...yet.)

I responded briefly, stating that her e-mail was inappropriate and that she needs to come talk to me in my office. I just didn't feel like a protracted e-mail extravaganza.

She writes back, asking if we can talk over the phone instead.

Despite my discomfort with face-to-face confrontation (which makes the phone option sound great), I want to stick to my guns. Even if it means waiting a few days, I want this girl in front of me. I've never had a meeting with a student over the phone, and it just seems like a bad idea. Should I insist on an office chat? Or would you let it go, and just let her call you in your office?

[fizxdude]

Give the student one opportunity to meet with you face-to-face.  Given the student's attitude, I suggest having a third party present.  If the student doesn't come to the meeting or is still confrontational, then hand the situation over to the Department Chair or the Dean.

[slac_vap]

Insist on face-to-face, in your office.  She will undoubtedly feel emboldened on the phone and may say additional inappropriate things.  Also, you miss things (and misinterpret things) over the phone due to inability to see body language.  If for no other reason, insist on face-to-face to cover your butt.  You never know who else might be listening in on a phone conversation.  Hide behind FERPA.  Some instructors interpret FERPA's guidelines as disallowing phone conversations about student performance, since you cannot confirm who is actually on the line.  Tell her she may not return to class until this issue is resolved in a meeting.

[starfleet_grad]

No, meet with her in person. In addition, inform the student that you will be taking notes of both of your comments during the discussion. Better yet, have a trusted colleague present or at least listen in on the conversation so that you have a witness later should the student make up accusations.

Don't read too much into the "rude" comment; many students today find any criticism of their actions "rude" and have yet to develop an adult understanding of what "rude" behavior really means (viz. her cluelessness about her own e-mail). This student may have grown up with a sense of unconditional approval and was never held responsible for her actions, so her natural inclination is to take any criticism personally. That then is yet another reason to have a third party witness your conversation because if it doesn't go the student's way, you'll definitely be accused of the vague but damaging act of "disrespect," and that's much easier to pull off over the phone when the student can say, "My mom listened to our conversation, and she agrees that Dr. dagny is the worst human being under the sun."

Stick to your guns and insist on meeting in your office. If nothing else, wait until the student attends class and invite her to come to your office right there and then. And document, document, document.

[voxprincipalis]

What they all said.

Slac_vap is perfectly right -- students will say things to you over the phone, when they do not have to look you in the eye, that they would never dare to say face-to-face. Because of this, a face to face meeting could actually be less stressful for you.

And, agreed -- have someone else present. That may make the student toe the line completely, as few are bold enough to be smart-alecks in front of more than one prof at a time.

VP

[dagny]

Thanks, all. Oh, how I love this place!

[fiona]

I also vote for face-to-face, with a witness, but I wouldn't be surprised if the student doesn't show up.

I'm sorry you have to go through this. We all deserve better.

The Fiona

[nabob]

In addition to having a third person present, or if you cannot find anyone,make sure to email the student a summary of what you discuss.  You can say something like, "This is for your records."  That way, you have a record of what happens, and if she later disputes it, you can at least point to the email. Paper trails are always good.

[acrimone]

There's nothing wrong with tape recording the conversation, either, so long as both parties consent to it.  I occassionally do that when I'm dealing with really tricky issues.

One of the first things I did when I got tenure was wire my office for sound.

[fishbrains]

There's nothing wrong with tape recording the conversation, either, so long as both parties consent to it.  I occasionally do that when I'm dealing with really tricky issues.

One of the first things I did when I got tenure was wire my office for sound.

This recording idea may sound paranoid to some, but I have tape recorded three conversations with different problem students. It has an interesting, quieting effect on their sense of entitlement and mock outrage. I don't ask their permission to tape, but I do put the tape recorder on the table and refer to the tape recorder during our conversation.

I would also keep the conversation short and sweet with something like the following in your kindest voice: "If I find your behavior to be disruptive in my class, you must stop the behavior immediately. You simply can't disrupt the class with your antics and chatting, so please don't put me in the position of having to take disciplinary action. Do you have any questions about what will happen if you continue your disruptive behavior in my class?"

When she tries to argue instead of answer the question, cut her off in the same kind tone and repeat the last sentence until you get an answer. Don't get into a pissing match with her (I'm not sure if women actually get into pissing matches, but you know what I mean).

Also, I would meet with her on neutral ground, not in your office. If things start to get ugly for some reason, it's hard to walk out of your own office.

Another person in the room couldn't hurt. It looks like this student  knows how to play the game.

Good luck with this.

[anthroid]

Yes, face to face and, if possible, with a witness.  Be sure your chair has a copy of the email before you do anything else and discuss the issue with the chair as soon as you can, and before the meeting.  Good luck!

[prytania3]

I would have the student come to my office. I wouldn't, however, invite another prof or have a tape recorder. I think that's a bit overdone for the crime of chattering.

You might have an extra prof on stand-by in case you need hum, but I wouldnt bring hum in unless the conference goes awry. Otherwise I think it just shows fear.

[philoctetes]

Not only would I suggest the face to face, but I would say that the first email was a mistake. I feel that it is important to deal with disruptive students in person. During or just after the class, and as early in the term as possible. There is nothing to instill a little well deserved discomfort and peer pressure like telling someone to "see me at break." What always bothers me is that they get into their 20s without anyone having taught them any manners.

I have not that many years of experience but the few times I have had a disruptive student this has always worked. I would not like to leave this sort of confrontation too long. (But I guess if you are on the quarter system this might be the start of a course, so I guess I should not infer too much.)

As for the wisdom of tape recording. That seems serious. I've not got to that point yet, and am a little afraid of being a situation that has gotten that bad. Are we talking about more than, chatting in class or backtalk? Or is it the case that you have that little support from your chair, that you feel the need to document so completely?

[prytania3]

Another reason I would suggest you handle this yourself: You don't want it getting around that you can't handle your classroom.

[dagny]

We have an appointment set for later this week. In my office. I've prepared the student for the possibility that the TA may be present, but I doubt I'll end up having the TA there after all. (In my department, asking another prof to be present, or getting the dept. head involved at this stage, would be considered a big no-no.)