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[history_grrrl]

Sigh. A student stopped by my office yesterday with a few complaints (this is a student I've posted about before, whom I was trying to convince to use historical scholarship for his paper instead of policy briefs by government hacks -- this was resolved by him finally reading the paper guidelines).

Among his complaints: he received a B+ on a paper (from his TA). I complimented him on his high grade. But to him it's a disaster, because he plans to apply to graduate school and "must" have an A. The basis of the complaint: he had taken a draft of the paper to his TA and asked her for feedback so he could improve (read: get an A). She spent ten minutes reading it (this was a 3-5 page paper), said it looked good, and said she didn't have any comments. He's now making, in essence, two mutually exclusive claims: 1) that the paper is really an A paper (so he will challenge the grade), and 2) the paper is a B+ paper, but because the TA didn't tell him what to fix, it's implicitly her fault that he didn't fix anything and thus didn't get an A.

In response, I told the student that I can't require TAs to read paper drafts, because they can only work a certain number of hours and there's no time allocated for extras like this (this is true). I also explained that the process of grading a final paper -- sitting down with a set of papers, reading a few of them first, thinking about what criteria we're looking for, deciding on realistic expectations for student work, determining what constitutes an A, a B, etc. -- is very different from glancing at a paper draft for a few minutes to see if anything jumps out as problematic or amiss. Finally, I explained my policy on grade disputes (written statement explaining what grade the student thinks he or she should have gotten and why, and an understanding that review of the paper could result in the same or a lower grade).

I think my responses were okay, but I'm curious about how others deal with this problem of students thinking that, if they badger you enough times to look over their drafts, they should get an A. I don't build drafts into assignments, but occasionally I have looked over drafts on request. (In one case last year, it was for a student just like this one, who actually announced the precise grade he wanted to get in the class.) Do you look at drafts, and if so, do you treat them as though you are "grading" them? In other words, what is reasonable for a student to expect from you if you look at a draft? And how do you respond to the notion that you (or your designee) are responsible for getting the student that desperately needed A?

[yemaya]

I do look over drafts and make suggestions, but my students understand that they still aren't guaranteed an A.  It's up to them to do the work.

As far as your student is concerned, here's the problem:

1.) He might very well be lying about what the TA told him.  There may have been some feedback that he chose to ignore.  You'll obviously have to ask your TA.

2.) There is a chance that he outright lied about seeing the TA all together.  (I've seen this happen.)  Some students think that just because they don't have much face-time with the prof, it means that the TA and prof don't talk.

3.) Your TA might not have been clear. 

4.) He feels entitled to an A.  No matter what.  He doesn't seem to understand that grades are earned. 

Your best bet is to clearly go over what goes into an "A" paper.  Make it PAINFULLY clear what he needs to do to get a better grade.  And, I would not change his grade unless he can make a much more substantive argument than blaming his TA.  Oh - and document the hell out of every interaction and paper he turns in.  Make sure he gets substantive feedback so you have plenty of documentation in case he appeals his grade.  Your TA might even want to go so far as to make copies of his graded papers and exams.  (I do this with all problem students.)

[larryc]

Photocopy a couple of genuine "A" papers, papers a thousand times better than his, black out the names, and give them to him.  Tell him that if he genuinely believes his paper is as good as these, he should write you a memo to that effect, using specific examples from the papers, and you will consider his appeal.

[dogstar]

I offer to read all rough drafts up until fairly late the evening before it's due. I do read them as though I were grading them, and write extensive comments, even if the student is sitting right there in front of me. I like to have it written down. I usually think a B+ paper is one where you can't find very much particularly and glaringly *wrong* with it, but you also can't find anything really great about it, and when I encounter such a paper, I tell the student exactly that. I tell them it's probably not an A paper, but that it's also hard to find much in particular wrong with it, which means it's probably somewhere between A and B. I make what suggestions I can (perhaps it's just a clunky writing style, or maybe there's an organizational flaw somewhere, there's always *something* I can find), suggest they re-write the whole thing with elegance and beauty in mind, and remind them that I have not graded it yet and am not guaranteeing them any particular grade.

  And I always back up the TA, unless they're really off their rocker (which hasn't happened yet). Typically, when a student comes with a complaint like that one, and won't be satisfied with simply re-reading my guidelines for an A paper and explaining why theirs fell short, I'll read their paper and be even harsher than the TA, pointing out all the areas where the TA was quite lenient or generous and tell them if I had graded it it would have been a B- or something. That usually does the trick.

[fishbrains]

We all have to draw the line between helping students understand the requirements for an essay versus marking drafts towards a grade like we are their copy editors.

For my freshizzle and sophomore comp/lit students, I will "look over" an essay for specific requirements of the essay that may be fairly new to a student (MLA formatting, new punctuations like brackets and ellipses, organization, certain types of development, etc.) and mark the draft accordingly. For freshizzle comp, I will color some English errors with a highlighter (or use the highlighting function in Word), but I won't label the problem; I expect the students to figure out what the problem is, and they usually do.

I will only review an essay once, and I attach a disclaimer statement saying that I skipped lines and/or sections and/or paragraphs when reading the draft and that the student is solely responsible for what he or she turns in. After that, the student must ask a very specific question about a specific sentence if he or she wants help.

This system usually works well for me and it tends to keep me away from the "Is it an 'A' yet?" question from students.

Using a highlighter is a great time saver.

[dr_pi]

I actually require a complete draft for each paper about 2-3 weeks before the final version is due. This draft counts for about 35% of the student's total project grade. I then grade the draft as if it were the final version, and give the student all the feedback needed to rework it into an A paper. At the end of the term, the student must turn in the graded draft along with the final paper.

Of course, I don't point out every grammatical and spelling error (if there are a lot on the first page, I just note that and instruct the student to find and clean the rest up), nor get so specific on what needs strengthening about a section that the student doesn't have to think the problem through huself.

This approach offers several benefits to both me and the student:

--The student gets the experience of editing and rewriting.

--The student still has time to do a major recasting of the paper, if necessary, by the end of the term, and has the chance to get a reasonable final grade on the work.

--Because so much of the final grade is in the draft, the student has to devote significant time to polishing the draft before I see it. That means I don't have to read painfully rough material.

--Any problem I don't catch in the draft, the student is not accountable for in the final.

--If the student's draft earns an A, the paper is done!

--The student has no excuses for not getting an A on the final paper.

--At the end of the term, all I have to do is scan to make sure the student adequately addressed what I wrote. This is a major timesaver for me at a busy time of the term.

[crazybatlady]

I see at least two problems with this method, dr. pi:

You take on too much responsibility and work;

You end up giving out a lot of As.

[fiona]

I think those who do a lot of draft reading are fairly young faculty. I did when I was younger, but I don't now. Not just that I'm older and tireder, but I don't find it really makes that much difference. Students, in my experience, just want you to tell them how to get an A.

If students want a draft read, I tell them to make an appointment with our Learning Center. The tutors there will teach them more than I could in a short session, and students who go there learn to take their own writing more seriously. (Most students, BTW, don't go after I suggest it, but that's their choice.)

Another hedge against grade arguments is to haul out the university's descriptions of what each grade means. Those would be in a student handbook or catalogue. The description for an A is usually pretty high-minded: outstanding, creative thought, that kind of thing. It deflates the idea that no mistakes = an A.

[spork]

The student is a whiny grade-grubber with an inflated ego and a sense of entitlement.  You'll be doing society a failure by NOT giving him A's.

The Fiona is correct about rough draft reading -- send these students to the university's writing center.  You are not a copy editor.

I get complaints all the time about how I grade written work.  My standard responses include:

"I don't care what you got in high school, this is college."

"My standards are higher than most because I know how important it is to have good written communication skills."

"I warned everyone about the need to plan ahead at the beginning of the semester.  You could have dropped the class then if you weren't willing to put in the required amount work."

[assocpolysciprof]

I sympathize with your dilemma, history-grrl, because its one that I often encounter. I have adopted four strategies to deter would-be grade grubbers, especially in large enrollment introductory classes.

First, my course syllabus state that the TAs and I are willing to read and comment on draft research papers up to five days before the final deadline. After that deadline passes, we cannot read or comment on drafts.

Second, the syllabus reprints the grading standards contained in the university bulletin (e.g., A = exceptional work, B= good work, C= average work, D= mediocre work, F= failing). In effect, I hide behind the university's standards.

Third, I now make students fill out a grade appeal form (available for download on the course website) and submit it to me with the original assignment no later than two weeks after the return of that assignment to the student.

Fourth, I post the specific guidelines that the TAs and I use to grade research papers and exams on the course website. Those guidelines clearly list the attributes of an A-level paper, a B-paper, etc. I do not, however, post exams or papers written by former students.

Finally, before each exam or research paper is due, I scare the hell out the class. They have every write to appeal their grades. However, I have instructed the TAs to give students the "benefit of the doubt" when grading papers and exams. After all, the TAs know the students far better than I do and are far more likely to be sympathetic. I then causally observe that never in my 10-plus years of teaching at my institution, I have seen sufficient evidence to warrant raising a B or B+ to an A- or an A. On the contrary, I have seen many cases where an overly generous TAs have given B's to C level work or A's to B level work, I have adjusted the grades downward.

These steps are labor intensive, but they are an excellent deterrent.

[oldchair]

English programs deal with these issues all the time.  Not only do we read drafts of student papers, but we also give students access to tutors through Writing Centers.   The best way, IMHO, to avoid grade disputes is never to discuss grades when discussing drafts.  Tell the students that you, or if appropriate your TA, will answer special questions about their work, but that you will simply not talk about grades. Period.  The grade-grubbing students will generally stay away.  Those interested in improving skills will learn to articulate good questions about their own work.

[newbie]

I will read drafts given to me more than a week before the deadline, but I also require students to submit a cover letter explaining their concerns and questions. I think that scares away many of the lazy students who just want me to tell them what to fix, as they don't know what questions to ask in the cover letter.

[yemaya]

If you're going to read drafts, it really helps to tell the students right up front that you don't proof-read because you feel that editing is an important skill to learn.  I don't mark up papers, but I'll note an example or two of grammar or organizational problems on the papers and then tell the student it's up to them to go through, find all the instances of this problem and fix them.  And yes, they should still be told there's no guarantee of a particular grade.  The onus is on them to do the best work they possibly can.

[voxprincipalis]

Several issues:

-- The student's assumption that "looks good" equals "A" is part of the problem. "A" is for outstanding work, not "good" work. If the TA said the paper looks good, then that only indicates that the student has satisfied the minimum demands of the assignment. The TA is not responsible for telling the student how to turn his "good" work into "outstanding" work. Him figuring it out for himself is one of the things that would make it outstanding. You are not bound by the assumptions the student read into the TA's comments.

-- An issue on a separate level is that the student "needs" an A, and that you are therefore under some moral obligation to give it to him. When I get my paycheck, I can't say to my chair that, "sorry, I *need* an extra $500." You get what you earn. Additionally, he is asking you to be an enabler -- make it easier for him to get into grad school when he hasn't earned it. This moral claim has no validity.

-- Your TA does not have ultimate authority in the class; that's why hu's the teaching assistant. You are the final authority.

-- If the student is unable to tell for himself whether it's a B+ paper or an A paper, then the student is not doing A-quality thinking, so it's probably not an A paper.

VP

[dr_pi]

I see at least two problems with this method, dr. pi:

You take on too much responsibility and work;

You end up giving out a lot of As.

Au contraire! I do the same amount of work as I would at the end of the term on a final paper; I just do it earlier, and with more potential for helping the student, since they rarely pick up graded papers after the term's over to learn from my comments.

And I don't give out a lot of A's, for two reasons: first, the draft is worth so much of the final project grade that if someone really screws up on that, it's very hard for hu to pull off a final project A. And second, it doesn't happen all that often that a student who doesn't put much work into the draft will put enough work into the revision to earn an A on it either. But now they have no basis for complaining.

I think those who do a lot of draft reading are fairly young faculty.

I've been teaching for 26 years.