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[konabrown]

I was recently teaching at a professional school, and several of the students in my class complained that the work was too hard. It was a graduate level business class, and I had started off with some material from an introductory undergraduate textbook. I explained to the dean (who immediately called me) that I was teaching these graduate level students introductory undergraduate material, and they were freaking out. I suggested that the few students take a few undergraduate courses to get prepared for graduate level courses. I also tried to slow down my course more with examples from the textbook. The students wanted more visual aids (I was already using Powerpoint), so I wrote more examples on the blackboard. A few students kept complaining the class was too hard, and my teaching wasn't clear enough, however.

Although my undergraduate students were doing fine with the same material, (which I told the dean), he fired me after one month on the job.

Has anyone else handled this type of experience successfully? Should I avoid schools that are similar to diploma mills in the future? Should I have provided the students with a lot of one-on-one tutoring or high school level material?

 

[zharkov]

I'd first suggest that you confine the use of the term diploma mill to school that are really fake -- you pay them $$$ and they mail you a diploma. If a school is accredited and is conducting classes, it might be of low quality, but it isn't a diploma mill.

One problem with part time MBA programs is that students enter them with all levels of prepartion, from those with good BSBAs to those who have a liberal arts degree and what to change careers.  Where I teach, MBA students are required to take "foundations" courses in accounting, math, econ, stats, and finance if they don't have the undergrad credits. Not all MBA programs are this rigorous, however.  Some suggest foundations, but don't require them.

In terms of method, it is important to begin with the the students know, and build from there.  Even when students have had the material in question, it may have been 10+ years ago, and they need to be reminded how -- for example -- to find the slope of a linear function.  So some review gets them synched-up, then -- to continue the example -- I spend a couple of hours showing them to do some basic calculus and optimization. (Which most have not had before.) And on exams, they do fine on the calculus problems. But if I started at calc, rather than analytic geometry, I would have lost half of them.

[konabrown]

On my first day, one of the full-time professors with whom I spoke said that teaching the undergraduate classes at this school was similar to teaching 9th grade students. I was really surprised to find the graduate level students complaining about a first-year undergraduate text. In this case, finding the level of the struggling students in the class really means reviewing high school material.

Should I have slowed the class down to the speed of the struggling students in the class?

If the dean is passing out MBA degrees to students who are having trouble with undergraduate material, how is the school really different from a diploma mill? How do graduate schools get accreditation when the students cannot pass undergraduate courses? He acted like the students were customers and the customers were always right. 

[goingcrazy]

It is a grad level course so you definately should not dumb down the class material.

I am wondering if the MBA program was at a for-profit college? I have taught at one of those and have found that there is a a high expectation of catering to the students required.  I will not teach at for profit colleges in the future. 

Good luck.

[konabrown]

It is a for-profit university, and I'm surprised at how low the standards were expected to be for my course. I am teaching undergraduate classes at a university and a community college, and the students at both schools were performing better than some of the graduate students at the for-profit school. In addition, they are generally speaking better behaved. The dean didn't respond at all when I mentioned the fact that the undergraduates were not having too much difficulty with this undergraduate material.

I think I will try to avoid teaching at for-profit schools in the future where the customers are always right. 

[prytania3]

It is a for-profit university, and I'm surprised at how low the standards were expected to be for my course. I am teaching undergraduate classes at a university and a community college, and the students at both schools were performing better than some of the graduate students at the for-profit school. In addition, they are generally speaking better behaved. The dean didn't respond at all when I mentioned the fact that the undergraduates were not having too much difficulty with this undergraduate material.

I think I will try to avoid teaching at for-profit schools in the future where the customers are always right. 

Many (not all) "for profits" are diploma mills. What's more they often take students who are not educationally prepared to do the work, but they don't really care as long as they get the financial aid money. The reality is that educating people is simply NOT the bottom line. The bottom line is profits. Many for-profits are even listed on the Nasdaq. If a "for profit" thought they'd make more money educating, they'd educate. If they think there's more money selling diplomas--they sell diplomas. If you work at this type of for-profit uni, you need to think in terms of what makes money for the place--not educational ideals.

[cingular]

I taught at a for-profit a few years ago, and several of the students showed real ADD problems. I mentioned this to the teaching supervisor, who said I was behaving in a disrespectful manner towards the students. The school was shut down this year for deficient educational standards, lack of educational resources, high rates of faculty turnover.   

[jds2006]

I worked at a for-profit when I really needed the money. I would not have done so otherwise.

Most admissions offices recruit in high schools and at college fairs. This for-profit recruited at the VA and welfare offices.

Over the years, many of my best students have been poor people. But they have attended not-for-profits where they did work comparable to any other students. At the for-profit, most of my students were interested in cashing their monthly checks. And why shouldn;t they be? That's how the admissions people sold them on the idea of the place: Sit in class three hours a night, maybe you learn, maybe not, but at the end of the month you get a fifty dollar check you can spend on whatever you like.

The real heartbreaker, though, was that some students really did think that they were going to a real college and that their degree would matter. They tried and studied and turned in papers and so on, and what they were really doing was using up financial aid that they should have applied to going to the university four miles away or the community college two miles past that.

[prytania3]

The real heartbreaker, though, was that some students really did think that they were going to a real college and that their degree would matter. They tried and studied and turned in papers and so on, and what they were really doing was using up financial aid that they should have applied to going to the university four miles away or the community college two miles past that.

Touche. I get many of those students after they've attended the non-prof and often they have trouble with financial aid at the CC because of the non-prof. Overall, I think they are bad news.

[zharkov]

Should I have slowed the class down to the speed of the struggling students in the class?
 

Probably not, but you need to know what the program outcomes and course learning outcomes entail. If, for example, a course learning outcome is that students demonstrate competence in solving basic optimization problems with calclulus, then that's that.  You need to cover the material in class, assign homework to help them learn, then assess their learning. (Say a quiz or exam or project.)  I could see a problem if you were trying to cover material at a level beyond the course's learning outcomes, but I'd guess that was not the case.

Where I work -- in the northeast -- the regional accreditor scrutinizes for-profit schools more closely than non-profits. Or let's say they need to see a bit more evidence that the place is fullfilling its academic mission. If you feel strongly about the poor quality of the school, you may want to write to their accreditor. They won't do anything immediately, but might alert their staff to keep the issue in mind for the next visit.

[larryc]

Konabrown: Since you are anonymous, would you mind naming the school?

[konabrown]

Metropolitan College of New York. The MBA division.

[starfleet_grad]

I worked at a for-profit college at the beginning of my career, and I can relate to what konabrown experienced. The owner of my school once told me this point blank: "We're not here to educate people; we're here to graduate them." 'Nuff said.