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[profgirl]

I teach at a CC, and I am in my first year.  I am fresh out of grad school where I also taught.  I seem to be the hard teacher here, but at the university where I went to grad school, I was known as way easy.  And, trust me, the university was not exactly known for its bright students.  I gave a test with 10 terms and 7 short answers.  7/20 failed it.  4/20 received As, 3/20 received Bs, and 3/20 received Cs.  The rest were Ds.  I know that a few students rarely attended class, and the rest probably did not study enough.  I am confident it is not my teaching, becuase I know how the students who did well behaved in class and the ones who didn't behaved.  I am not being arrogant here.  During the review session, I told those who had questions to stay and the others to leave.  The grade breakdown correlates pretty well to those who stayed and those who left.  Maybe I should have made everyone stay, but that ruins it for those who really do care.  I am frustrated with the grade breakdown even though I realize this.  Many have told me that they have only had multiple choice tests at this CC, and many told me they have never had a mid term, which is what this was.  I think that is sad since all of them want to continue to university and law school and things of that nature.  I felt they needed the challenge or they would simply have problems later on.  But, is that wrong?  Am I supposed to dumb everything down for these students who don't understand that this is still college?  One of them said this is community college, you know for retards.  My husband says I need to be more unattached, but I have never had this many fail a test.  Also, in the review session a couple of days before I gave them the terms and questions that would be on the test before I allowed those who did not have questions to leave.  This really was not a hard test.  I also hate to dumb it down, because the ones that got As and Bs really worked hard to learn and understand the material.  I feel like they shouldn't have to be in a dumbed down class.  A few of my As really liked learning the stuff too.  Should I go in Monday and tell them about the whole 2 hours studying per 1 hour of class time?  Or at a CC can you just not expect that?  I am unsure of what to do and I would really appreciate any advice you can give me.  I also apologize for the long and somewhat rambling post.  I know I could ask other faculty at my cc, but it seems like the problem kind of is the fact that other faculty have not challenged them.  That's why they don't know what to do with me asking them to actually learn.  One of my students said "wow, so you like actually want us to learn something."  I really do but I am wondering if that is too much to ask.  Oh if it makes any difference this is an 8 month full time position with little to no chance of being kept on in anything other than adjunct work.  This is because I am taking the place of a professor who will return in May.  Just wanted to add that if it makes a difference.  Thank you so much for any who offer advice.  And, yes I realize I do in a way just need to suck it up and not care, so please don't tell me to do that.

[prytania3]

Yes, you should dumb EVERYTHING down. Forget multiple choice, even that's too hard. Just give true/false. Everyone knows the worst 4-year college is better than even the best CC. Remember CC students are never required to write and never given anything challenging. They are capable of very little. If they manage to transfer to a 4-year college, they ALWAYS flunk out.

[ms_collegiality]

OP, you do know Prytania's being sarcastic, don't you? 

You're traveling the same road so many of us did:  grad school teacher at a good university to the realities of life teaching at a CC.  One big different between students at a cc and students a U is the financial investment.  Students at my cc pay $20 a unit, and more than half of them get complete tuition waivers.  It's easy come, easy go.  Not to overgeneralize, but a university education is so expensive these days, I think students are trying to get their money's worth.  Or maybe I'm wrong--it's been a few years since I taught at a university.  Anyway, you just can't worry about the scores of students who don't show up for classes.  They get what they deserve.  Take them out of the equation and re-examine your curve.  It doesn't look that bad to me.  Were you really expecting everyone to do well?  And finally, keep your expectations high.  DON'T be the easy teacher.  Would you rather students come out of class with some knowledge to go along with the A or B, or that they tell their buddies that you're easy?

[gennidad]

We referred to CC as the thirteenth and fourteenth grades.  That being said I came from a high school that graduated a grand total of thirty eight.  The extra preparation of a CC was a great help when I actually paid attention.  I discovered drinking my first time through and flunked out (yes it was a full paid ride).  When I sobered up and after working a few years, I went back on a "restart" program (I paid for everything).  Guess what.  I just missed a 4.0 (father had heart surgery right at the end of the semester so I didn't study like I should have).

Don't change or dumb things down.  Your A and B students will thank you later.

[prof_cs]

Its funny that you say that. I have worked adjunct as well as visting at two college - one being a CC and the other University. I found my CC students to be driven and dedicated. Most are older students who are paying for their own education and take that seriously. On the other hand, my university students seem bright but possibly inexperienced. They don't anticipate the level of work expected. I would give them a chance to revise the work for some extra credit points (they'll be happy to earn some points and you may get them to learn some of the material more thoroughly) and let them know what you are going to expect from them. Help them be prepared to meet your expectations also.

[bigcaat]

Yes, you should dumb EVERYTHING down. Forget multiple choice, even that's too hard. Just give true/false. Everyone knows the worst 4-year college is better than even the best CC. Remember CC students are never required to write and never given anything challenging. They are capable of very little. If they manage to transfer to a 4-year college, they ALWAYS flunk out.

Gotta disagree.  I've taught at CC most of my career, have taught at a major private university and am now both at CC and a major state university.  I don't teach my classes any differently, and neither do most of the other university/CC profs I know, who teach at both schools in the area. 

In my experience, CC students are just as capable, and far more mature than any university student I've had at the state level.  My current university students find the most simple things -- like outline format -- too challenging.  My CC students, rise up to any challenge I give them, writing, discussing, exams, etc. as well or better than anyone at my university. 

I think if you expect a lot of CC students, they will rise to the occasion.  Dumbing down the material helps no one, and doesn't prepare those who plan on moving on to a 4 year school.  I truly believe CC students *want* to learn, many have had to pull themselves up by their bootstaps anyway, and most will rise to the occasion.  I've seen it.  I do it.  I will dumb down for no one.

Caat

[sabovision]

This also feeds into an interesting thread regarding the working conditions/compensation for faculty at CCs and SLACs.  As that post read, the workling conditions and compensation are MUCH better at a CC than a SLAC, thus the CCs should begin to attract better faculty that will challenge the students further.  Given the above post about the quality of students and the fact that most CC students are paying the way on their own, it seems to be the premium educational system today, the tide is turning!

[prytania3]

Yes, you should dumb EVERYTHING down. Forget multiple choice, even that's too hard. Just give true/false. Everyone knows the worst 4-year college is better than even the best CC. Remember CC students are never required to write and never given anything challenging. They are capable of very little. If they manage to transfer to a 4-year college, they ALWAYS flunk out.

Gotta disagree.  I've taught at CC most of my career, have taught at a major private university and am now both at CC and a major state university.  I don't teach my classes any differently, and neither do most of the other university/CC profs I know, who teach at both schools in the area. 

In my experience, CC students are just as capable, and far more mature than any university student I've had at the state level.  My current university students find the most simple things -- like outline format -- too challenging.  My CC students, rise up to any challenge I give them, writing, discussing, exams, etc. as well or better than anyone at my university. 

I think if you expect a lot of CC students, they will rise to the occasion.  Dumbing down the material helps no one, and doesn't prepare those who plan on moving on to a 4 year school.  I truly believe CC students *want* to learn, many have had to pull themselves up by their bootstaps anyway, and most will rise to the occasion.  I've seen it.  I do it.  I will dumb down for no one.

Caat

OP, you do know Prytania's being sarcastic, don't you?

'Nuff said.

[gennidad]

Pry

When are you not sarcastic?

[bigcaat]

OP, you do know Prytania's being sarcastic, don't you?

'Nuff said.

I'm sorry.  I'm new here. :-P

[pythagoras]

I am also in my first year at a CC, although I adjuncted at another one for several years. I remember wondering at first, when I started adjuncting, where my students were. Some weren't showing up for class anymore. Some students at a CC are just there because they don't know what else to do or are trying to get on parents' insurance. Older students seem to be more serious and ready for work. I have always taught older students until now.

I have two types of classes, completely different. I'm in a split position. One is for first-time-in-college students. I feel so frustrated with them! They do half-assed work (most) if they do it at all. I'm sick of grading it. So, now, I'm giving them quizzes on the reading every day instead of all the homework they aren't doing anyway.

In my other type of class, which is math, I am assigning problem sets that contain critical thinking questions, and even though they don't do a perfect job on them, I'm forcing them to think. They are starting to really appreciate them.

All in all, even though in one of my classes, almost half are failing simply because they have not done any of the easy assignments I give, I have not and do not intend to lower my standards. Neither should you. However, at the same time, you should be meeting them where they are and raising them up from there. If you assignments and tests are way above where they are at, they will give up. If you give them the tools to get there, then they should be able to perform.

I have stressed as you are all semester, and this week I even went to talk to my chair about it. She said that if I was doing all I could to help them and they weren't participating or doing their work or showing up, or all three, then I assign the grade they earned, which is an F.

I am very okay with that. I have given my students extra credit (in the form of attending workshops and also the Math Center), and I have let them correct a few problems on tests for points back. I have given them chances galore, but it's funny because the students who are doing well are the only ones who take advantage of these things. The others don't care, don't show up, don't do squat, and then they wonder why they are failing!

One student confided in me that everyone thought I was "hard-core" because they had heard the class I teach is easy and you don't have to do anything, and gee, I actually expect them to do something!!! I said to him, with a slight roll of my eyes, why yes, I do expect them to do something, like learn!

I have been asking other instructors who teach what I do what they do in the classroom, and most are not collecting work. They assign it and give the occasional quiz or small project, but that's it. That goes against my teaching philosophy (especially in math where I want to check their progress regularly and help them to fix errors in logic and understanding), and I won't do that just because they are.

I say stick to your guns and fail them if that's what they earned. But make sure that you are giving the opportunity for learning that is to be demonstrated on your assessments; if you are testing something you didn't teach, in my opinion, that's a bit unfair.

Anyway, good luck! Keep your chin up and believe in yourself.

[marthaann]

I have taught at a cc for twenty years while adjuncting for a university once in awhile.  My students rate my "high difficulty/high helpfullness" which is exactly where I think I need to be at a cc.  I do NOT dumb down the material, I set high expectations, but I'd walk across fire to help a student, who really wanted to learn,  meet those expectations.  My typical grade distribution for a class of 25 will be 5 A's, 10 B 's, 1 or 2 C's, and the rest F's.  (They were the ones whom I call "mystery guests," seldom appearing in class.) Students WILL face a reckoning; it might as well be early enough in their college enrollment to begin to make changes in their learning/study habits.

[cc_alan]

Yes, you should dumb EVERYTHING down. Forget multiple choice, even that's too hard. Just give true/false. Everyone knows the worst 4-year college is better than even the best CC. Remember CC students are never required to write and never given anything challenging. They are capable of very little. If they manage to transfer to a 4-year college, they ALWAYS flunk out.

Heh.

A bigwig at a local uni went public some time ago stating that CC transfers don't perform as well as the uni students and a large percentage of the transfers don't graduate. Our CC called him on it by requesting the data. He had to come back and say he didn't have any data to support his comments.

Oops!

I'd also like to point out that a well written TF test can be extremely difficult. In a grad class, in order to get full credit we had to fix any F questions to make them T. Yikes!!!!!!

Yes, I know you were joking but I just wanted to add it.

ALan

[rattusdomesticus]

Dear Profgirl,
This is a tough one. I had a lot of "adjusting" to do once I started teaching college students. My expectations were based on my own overachieving background--so they failed miserably. My advice?

> Check your departmental guidelines as to what exactly students should know when they leave your class... also (very important), find out from your department chair or colleagues HOW WELL they are supposed to know these things or show that they can do whatever they are supposed to do. In some cases, students need to be able to show they can "master" something--ask your colleague if this means that in 8 cases out of 10, they can do it, or what? Or are students only supposed to "be able to identify" a concept instead? Yes, in some cases, route memorization is the best you'll get. Even with that, how often do they have to identify that black and white animal as a "cow?" Try to get specifics so you can see what's reasonable.

> Immediately get some guidance from one or two senior professors at your campus. Immediately. Don't wait. The longer you wait, the less competant you feel and the more your students will lose motivation. Show them what you are asking of your students and get feedback. This is scary, but revealing. Take everything they say to heart... and make changes. In some cases this will mean "ratcheting down" your expectations; in other cases it will simply mean to use another format to get what you want from your students. The outcome will be the same (they will learn it), but the path may be different. Ask other professors how they "scaffold" information so students' learning works to build to a particular outcome. This is different than simply testing them to see where they are and where you'll need to start patching and pulling to get them to the level at which they need to be.

> Ask your departmental secretary for copies of other professors' syllabi and course outlines. This will show you what they're assigning so you can adjust your load, if necessary. Be sure to get materials from professors you respect that are somewhat "middle of the road" graders. Don't ask for materials from Dr. Hardass who hasn't passed a student in years--or the softie, Professor My-Students-Love-Me.

> If you aren't doing commitee work, get on one that addresses curriculum. This gives you the ability to look BEHIND why professors are assigning certain assignments. Knowing this will allow you to substitute less-grade-heavy work, if appropriate--because you'll know what you're looking for from the students. (Retention of a particular knowledge? Proof that they can apply certain ideas? That they can show you that they are working across the disciplines?)

The first year is the toughest. I made some grand mistakes, I'll tell you! Whew. You'll get through it... and when you do, you'll be a much better instructor. (I know you think you're good now, and you very well may be, but believe me, experience is the best teacher.)

[profgirl]

Thanks to all who replied.  I appreciate the advice, and I am going to take most of it.  One of the problems with consulting other professors is that I am the only one in this subject area.  It's a very common field, but it is not required, so there aren't tons of classes in it.  The regular professor is away this year, and I am taking his place for only this year.  I could consult him, but so many students have come to me and said they are so happy I am here because he is horrible, so I wonder about his advice.  Also becoming part of committees and things like is not an option since I'm gone in May.  I have talked to other professors who I am friendly with and they think my exams are fine, but because they are not in my field, it's not enough to relieve my doubt.  I do feel better reading your posts, and I have also graded exams from 2 other classes, and those students did very well.  They are exams from three different classes, but my style and teaching methods are logically the same, so that has helped.  Thanks so much for your advice.  I know that I will be more secure with this kind of stuff with experience, and I still have lots to learn about teaching, but I feel confident in certain things about my teaching and this just shook me.  So thanks!!  Oh, and yes I figured the poster was being sarcastic!