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[mj_romo]

This absolutely infuriated me.  My remedial comp classes had an essay due on Monday.  One student who was present in class failed to turn the essay in, and I have a firm no late work policy if they're present the day an essay is due.  They'd had 2 weeks to produce this essay, and most of it was done in class, so there's no excuse.

On Wednesday this young woman came to my office hours after class and told me she had been absent on Monday and could she please submit her work late.  She sat there and lied to me outright!

I let her have it.  I reminded her of the remarks she had contributed to our discussion, and I asked if she wanted me to call in the girl she had partnered with for group work.  I pulled the paper from my bag that she and the other girl had submitted to show her evidence.  Finally, I demanded and badgered her reason for attempting a lie of this magnitude out of her.  Her response: I never take roll out loud, so she didn't get the impression that I really paid attention to who was and was not present.

I filed the paper in the circular file right in front of her and strongly suggested that she cease treating instructors like they were born yesterday.

Honestly, I've gotten some real winners in the past, but this one deserved the grand prize. 

[fishbrains]

so there's no excuse.

Ha! Trust me: There's always an excuse.

[acrimone]

I would have immediately referred her to the honor board, also.  Does your school have one?

[anthroid]

mj, I understand your reaction, but I think you might have been a little hard on her.  You caught her in a major lie, sure.  But did you have to humiliate her?  I think a stern look after verifying her presence, refusing to take her paper (in which you were completely, totally, and absolutely justified), a small shake of the head and a sighing "I am so disappointed in you for trying to pull one over on me" may have been enough.  You kind of destroyed her.  That wasn't very nice.  I mean, what we do is important, but it shouldn't be soul-decimating. 

It may be wise to rethink your statements to her and apologize for some of the harsher things while explaining that you get this kind of thing so much that you overreacted a bit.  You just know (you go on to say) she won't ever try that with you again. I don't see the need to do more than alert your chair to what happened; this isn't honor board stuff (yet).

I so completely understand your frustration; but it seems like you took stuff out on this young person who really didn't deserve the entire weight of your anger.  Just IMHO.

[supernumerary]

It may be wise to rethink your statements to her and apologize for some of the harsher things while explaining that you get this kind of thing so much that you overreacted a bit. 

The prof should apologize to the lying student?? I can't believe I'm reading this. Isn't it the student who should apologize for telling lies?

[anthroid]

Well, sure, the student should apologize, but throwing a paper away in the wastebasket and essentially telling the kid she's a loser?  There was a reference to "badgering."  We really need to rise above the chilluns' behavior and model a slightly more adult way of interaction.  It isn't that I don't think mj was justified in calling the kid on the carpet; but I do think hu may have overreacted just a bit.

[smart_e_pantz]

Well, sure, the student should apologize, but throwing a paper away in the wastebasket and essentially telling the kid she's a loser?  There was a reference to "badgering."  We really need to rise above the chilluns' behavior and model a slightly more adult way of interaction.  It isn't that I don't think mj was justified in calling the kid on the carpet; but I do think hu may have overreacted just a bit.

She is a loser!!!

And, I am sick of everyone expecting us to tip-toe around these losers so we avoid hurting their little fragile feelings.  If someone had hurt their little feelings ten years ago, we wouldn't have to put up with their crap in a college classroom.

I say good for mj_romo!  That little s***head is going to to think twice about pulling this crap on someone else.

That said, mj_romo, I think your policy on not accepting papers "if they were in class" only encourages the little twits to skip class and develop even better excuses to turn in papers late.  My policy is that they have two weeks to work on papers.  I don't accept late papers at all!

[prytania3]

That said, mj_romo, I think your policy on not accepting papers "if they were in class" only encourages the little twits to skip class and develop even better excuses to turn in papers late.  My policy is that they have two weeks to work on papers.  I don't accept late papers at all!

I agree 100% with Smarty Pants.

I do accept late papers, however. I teach basic comp and we are in a computer lab once a week,  and students are required to turn in something every week (draft/paper), and I can fall behind quicker  than they can.

Okay, that out of the way. I would have yelled at her, too. Not because she lied, but rather because she lied badly.


 
 
 

[ptprof]

She is a loser!!!

And, I am sick of everyone expecting us to tip-toe around these losers so we avoid hurting their little fragile feelings.  If someone had hurt their little feelings ten years ago, we wouldn't have to put up with their crap in a college classroom.

I say good for mj_romo!  That little s***head is going to to think twice about pulling this crap on someone else.

I couldn't agree with this more!!! 

I would have gone one step further and threatened the student with turning them over to the Academic Standards committee for violations of academic honesty.  I would also reminded her that the academic standards committee has the authority to punish students up to and including dismissal from the University.

Thank you mj_romo, hopefully she will tell her friends about the scenario and there might be a few less students playing these games.

[mj_romo]

A little bit of humiliation goes a long way.

When I was in senior English classes, a professor asked me - in front of 3 other professors - if I'd dealt with my comma splice problem.  Let me tell you, I figured out what c-s errors were and how to fix them mighty quickly after that.

I didn't do this in front of any other students, and no one else was in my office.  I get that the kid was embarrassed and humiliated, but my guess is that she'll think twice before she ever pulls a stunt like that again.

I think your policy on not accepting papers "if they were in class" only encourages the little twits to skip class and develop even better excuses to turn in papers late.

On this note, to miss class and have a paper accepted late, they have to have proof of their excuse - such as a note from a dr, a death certificate, or an accident report from a police station.  Trust me, they don't missing turning stuff in.

[drillers1]

On this note, to miss class and have a paper accepted late, they have to have proof of their excuse - such as a note from a dr, a death certificate, or an accident report from a police station.  Trust me, they don't missing turning stuff in.

Dude, it's so easy to make a doctor's note on the computer or even a death certificate or police report.

[winnie]

So why don't more students do it? I get liars rather than document forgers. Are you calling my students incompetent?

Dude, it's so easy to make a doctor's note on the computer or even a death certificate or police report.

[busyslinky]

Anthroid,

I agree with you wholeheartedly.  It seems that this forum's attitude is that student punishment and humiliation is the way to get students to change behavior.  This is a depressing finding that our mature instructors believe that this is true and manage it by becoming abusive to students, because they are liars and cheats and don't deserve better.  I just wanted you to know that you have supporters in the more gentle and guiding attitude.  Firm and understanding, but not abusive and immediately penal.  Yes, students feelings are important, as are the feelings of all humans.

[fizxdude]

She is a loser!!!

And, I am sick of everyone expecting us to tip-toe around these losers so we avoid hurting their little fragile feelings.  If someone had hurt their little feelings ten years ago, we wouldn't have to put up with their crap in a college classroom.

What is the real purpose for humiliating a student?  Do you get some sort of a thrill from it?  Does it make you feel better as a person to belittle a student?  Anyone who condones such unprofessional behavior should look for another career.   Keep your insecurities out of the classroom. 

[seniorscholar]

The real question is: why on earth do you care so much?

Faced with this student and this situation, you could take a deep breath, say, calmly "I know that you were in class because I remember your contributions to the discussion, and you know that I do not accept late papers." No questions to her, no opening for further discussion, no emotion. You could suggest that she could perhaps overcome the zero on this assignment by doing really well for the rest of the semester.

And then forget about it. It's not about insulting you; it's her problem, not yours. Move on to things you can do something about, such as your own research or grading or class prep.