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[anthroid]

If plagiarism is bad, why is lying to professors not equally as bad?

Ding ding ding!  kaysixteen wins today's prize!

Lying and stealing are lying and stealing, in whatever form, indeed.

Yep.  Plagiarism is lying.

To me, punishment, from a professor's perspective, equals consequences.  I think this is what Kay meant (right?).

[science_expat]

Disclaimer: it's quite late and I've just finished marking a pile of student work so please pretend that I'm a somewhat literate student, not a fellow academic, if the comment below isn't clear.

I think that K16's point is that there should be a penalty for "cheating". In other words, a student who comes to a prof with a "sorry but I won't make the deadline" may be allowed to submit the work late but with a penalty.

However, most of us are compassionate and hence will allow late submissions without penalty for dead grandmothers, etc.. Students know this which is why we joke about the effect of exams on grandparent mortality.

The issue is what action we should take when a student makes up (i.e. lies to us) a tale so that s/he can avoid a late penalty/zero. The stories above, while amusing, suggest that the student isn't really taking any risk by lying.

What I mean is that if caught out s/he will fail the relevant assignment because the work can't be produced. But, this would have happened anyway so why should the student not "give it a go"?

I'm quite involved in dealing with plagiarism issues and the same type of thing is important to us - if the consequences for cheating vs. not cheating but still failing are the same, why not cheat and hope?

[mended_drum]

The issue is what action we should take when a student makes up (i.e. lies to us) a tale so that s/he can avoid a late penalty/zero. The stories above, while amusing, suggest that the student isn't really taking any risk by lying.

What I mean is that if caught out s/he will fail the relevant assignment because the work can't be produced. But, this would have happened anyway so why should the student not "give it a go"?

Well, according to our (student written) honor code, I do not have the option of failing the student for the assignment if he or she lies.  I am required to bump the whole thing to the Honor Court where the minimum penalty is failure of the course.  Last year, three students were failed for faking doctors' notes.  No late penalty is worth that.

[not_a_gradstudent1]

Just in:


I've missed class this week because I've been really sick (i know this sounds like a lie)  As far as a doctors note goes, the SHS doesnt hand them out, however, I've been given two perscriptions for whatever I caught. Please let me know if I absolutely need to be in class tomorrow.

[grasshopper]

I had a student ask me last year if I would accept a photocopy of a doctor's note. Turns out that doctors are charging a TEN DOLLAR fee for each note written. Five classes, five notes - fifty bucks! Can you imagine?

[galactic_hedgehog]

I had a student ask me last year if I would accept a photocopy of a doctor's note. Turns out that doctors are charging a TEN DOLLAR fee for each note written. Five classes, five notes - fifty bucks! Can you imagine?

I'm a doctor!  Send 'em my way!  CA-CHING!

[katherineparr]

Received today:

"Im in your HIS XX...Im sorry that I havent been able to make it to class so far but I had the flu then a close friend of my family had a heart attack and we wasnt sure if he was going to make it or not. I hope you understand the circumstances and I will be in class on Tuesday!! And I was wanting to know what work I have to make up."

This student has missed 2 solid weeks of class. With no communication of any kind. Already, s/he has failed attendance, and is close to automatic failure.

Grrr. I wish we had the right to dis-enroll people who fail to show up. I wish, I wish, I wish.

Oh, and let me just give those 5 hours of lecture over, just for you.

[elsie]

I just had a student email me to apologize for missing an appointment, two hours or so after my colleague called to tell me that he'd taken the student to the emergency room. In delirium the poor kid had been fussing over missing the appointment, so my colleague called to explain.

[kaysixteen]

Anthroid nailed it.  I care very little how well an assignment is done, so long as honest attempts are made to complete it, and compassion is normally extended for students with legitimate reasons to be late, ask for extensions, however.  All this sort of stuff, however, implies the need to be honest with me.  If you lie to me, you generally forfeit that compassion and those breaks, and I am going to nail your arse.

[upanova]

I got a beaut yesterday.

A student asked me when my final exams were held because "My parents have already bought me the plane ticket for spring break and would you mind if I left early."

I explained that my finals were given a week earlier than most in the college since all our students attend special shows in lieu of the 11th week of classes; students in other departments take their final exams in Week 11. Also that he would definitely fail the final, and the class, if he did not take the test.

The student's second email consisted of this:

'Ummm...wonder when Week 11 is?"

I was tempted to write in all caps, but restrained myself, asked him to consult his course catalogue, and copied all materials to the Chair. Chair said that I can't issue a warning for something the student was planning to do, so all I can do is fail him when he doesn't show up.

This takes the biscuit. He might as well just go home and stay there. His parents are as dedicated to education as he is, apparently.

[daniel_von_flanagan]

I had a student ask me last year if I would accept a photocopy of a doctor's note. Turns out that doctors are charging a TEN DOLLAR fee for each note written. Five classes, five notes - fifty bucks! Can you imagine?

As far as a doctors note goes, the SHS doesnt hand them out

The latter case calls out for censure from the Faculty Senate.  I don't know what to say about the former, except I would love to have a way of letting these doctors' mothers know what kind of self-important, bad-mannered, moneygrubbing little s***s they raised. - DvF

[summers_off]

Ummm, not to be cynical or anything, but a photocopied doctor's note is much easier to "doctor" (pun intended) than an original.  Just take a friend's note, white out the name & date, insert your own & the class date, photocopy and Presto! your are in the clear.

[voxprincipalis]

As far as a doctors note goes, the SHS doesnt hand them out

The latter case calls out for censure from the Faculty Senate.  I don't know what to say about the former, except I would love to have a way of letting these doctors' mothers know what kind of self-important, bad-mannered, moneygrubbing little s***s they raised. - DvF

Ours doesn't either. But you can call, and *if* the student has signed the release that lets Health Services share information with appropriate people, then they'll tell you whether or not the student was there, and in some cases will confirm the diagnosis. But if the student hasn't signed the form, then no dice.

VP

[upanova]

This was scrawled on the back of an essay for which the student recieved a D.I'd also given a two-question pop quiz on a topic that everyone in the course should have known by week 6--which the student failed.
 It's not technically an email, but it definitely belongs in my collection of Stupid Student Comments:

"I think it is VERY UNFAIR for you to give a pop quiz on topics that were covered in previous tests. If I didn't know it the first time, I'm not going to know it now without refreshing."

It's hard to argue with his logic.

[kraken]

Ummm, not to be cynical or anything, but a photocopied doctor's note is much easier to "doctor" (pun intended) than an original.  Just take a friend's note, white out the name & date, insert your own & the class date, photocopy and Presto! your are in the clear.

Heh.

I had a student with five absences come in to find out what dates she had been absent 'for her records'.  She came in the next day with five excuse notes photocopied.  Each was dated for one of the five absences we had noted in the prior meeting.  I was particularly impressed that on five seemingly unrelated dates, she had not only managed to experience stomach cramps and diarrhea, but against all odds, her blood pressure had remained stable throughout the semester.  In fact, it appears that it never changes. 

To quote Ron White, "You can't fix stupid."