next »

[infopri]

Masters students are supposed to be writing a research paper.

I offered to read drafts if they turned them in before Thanksgiving, but of course only one of them did.

I just got an email with the subject heading, "a problem i am having"

I am so tempted to reply with just the subject heading "Capitalization?"

Alas, the problem is of course, "I just want to know if this is a viable paper topic before I get too deep into it."

Papers are due on Friday.  Sigh. 

I've got graduate students still deciding on a topic for a paper due on Friday, too. 

[oseph]

Masters students are supposed to be writing a research paper.

I offered to read drafts if they turned them in before Thanksgiving, but of course only one of them did.

I just got an email with the subject heading, "a problem i am having"

I am so tempted to reply with just the subject heading "Capitalization?"

Alas, the problem is of course, "I just want to know if this is a viable paper topic before I get too deep into it."

Papers are due on Friday.  Sigh. 

I've got graduate students still deciding on a topic for a paper due on Friday, too. 

Yeah, these are second-year masters' students (and one third-year doctoral student).  The only one who decided on a topic early was the first-year masters student, who happens to be the only woman in the class.  The male students laughed at her when she turned in a draft for me to review.  They aren't laughing now.

I thought I was treating them like grownups by not requiring a topic for approval early on, a bibliography, a draft, etc.  I won't make that mistake again.

[grasshopper]

The only one who decided on a topic early was the first-year masters student, who happens to be the only woman in the class.  The male students laughed at her when she turned in a draft for me to review.  They aren't laughing now.

I thought I was treating them like grownups by not requiring a topic for approval early on, a bibliography, a draft, etc.  I won't make that mistake again.

You're kidding - they laughed at her?

We can assume that you're planning to continue treating them like grownups when you grade their work? Sheesh.

[oseph]

The only one who decided on a topic early was the first-year masters student, who happens to be the only woman in the class.  The male students laughed at her when she turned in a draft for me to review.  They aren't laughing now.

I thought I was treating them like grownups by not requiring a topic for approval early on, a bibliography, a draft, etc.  I won't make that mistake again.

You're kidding - they laughed at her?

We can assume that you're planning to continue treating them like grownups when you grade their work? Sheesh.

Not kidding...I heard them teasing her about being so on top of things ("You'll get over that by next semester.").   

Yes, I already sent out an email telling them that if they can't turn in an acceptable paper by Friday, I highly recommend that they take an incomplete, with the understanding that I will hold them to even higher standards when I grade the late papers.  I also told them that if they choose to take the incomplete, they need to inform me by email and copy the graduate director on that email (he's a tough cookie).   From whispered conversations I've heard in the hallways, I suspect that email is responsible for some pretty stinky underpants.

I don't feel one bit bad.  I sent out multiple reminders that I'd look over drafts before Thanksgiving.  I offered to meet with them all.  I just didn't insist on making them follow baby research steps they should have learned earlier.  This is the only major assignment they've had all term.  They don't have a final exam.  They just seemed so nonchalant about the whole thing all term.  So last week I made them present their research topics (which most of them didn't actually have yet) to the undergraduates (it's primarily an undergraduate class with a graduate section).  The undergraduates, who had just given beautiful presentations on case studies the week before, were NOT impressed, and their questions really put the graduate students in their place.  I could tell they were embarrassed afterward by the way they slunk out of class.

[mandywoetzel]

I think part of the problem is the notion of "democratic education" being misinterpreted and abused by many k-12 teachers and administrators. According to their notion of what "democratic education" means, if no one in class is doing it right, it means that the teacher is doing a bad job.

I too have noticed a recent trend whereby students pressure each other to pretend not to understand assignments by claiming that the instructions are confusing, so that no one would be penalized for not working hard.

Here, what appears to be happening is that these loser students are trying to make it look like the woman who completed the assignment was the exception. I have seen that in my undergrads and MA-level classes as well.

[llanfair]

The only one who decided on a topic early was the first-year masters student, who happens to be the only woman in the class.  The male students laughed at her when she turned in a draft for me to review.  They aren't laughing now.

I thought I was treating them like grownups by not requiring a topic for approval early on, a bibliography, a draft, etc.  I won't make that mistake again.

You're kidding - they laughed at her?

We can assume that you're planning to continue treating them like grownups when you grade their work? Sheesh.

Not kidding...I heard them teasing her about being so on top of things ("You'll get over that by next semester.").   

Yes, I already sent out an email telling them that if they can't turn in an acceptable paper by Friday, I highly recommend that they take an incomplete, with the understanding that I will hold them to even higher standards when I grade the late papers.  I also told them that if they choose to take the incomplete, they need to inform me by email and copy the graduate director on that email (he's a tough cookie).   From whispered conversations I've heard in the hallways, I suspect that email is responsible for some pretty stinky underpants.

I don't feel one bit bad.  I sent out multiple reminders that I'd look over drafts before Thanksgiving.  I offered to meet with them all.  I just didn't insist on making them follow baby research steps they should have learned earlier.  This is the only major assignment they've had all term.  They don't have a final exam.  They just seemed so nonchalant about the whole thing all term.  So last week I made them present their research topics (which most of them didn't actually have yet) to the undergraduates (it's primarily an undergraduate class with a graduate section).  The undergraduates, who had just given beautiful presentations on case studies the week before, were NOT impressed, and their questions really put the graduate students in their place.  I could tell they were embarrassed afterward by the way they slunk out of class.

You rock, Oseph!  

I'd say you're well on your way to getting a 'tough cookie' reputation of your own, which is a Good Thing and much to be encouraged and nurtured.

[pinky]

Context: Students were offered the opportunity to do an extra credit project that was due a week ago.  No late submissions accepted.  I went over this many times in class.  Additionally, the answers to the project were on the webpage giving the details of the assignment.  (Think computer programming project about topic X.)  We gave them a starting point, and they had to arrive at the answers by some manipulation.  I tried my best to give partial credit including awarding points for the format of the answer, documentation, etc.

This weekend, I grade the submissions.  One student does horribly and gets no points.  This of course leads to the email:

Student: Also, for my XXX assignment, although my final value may not be correct, I'm sure the logic is about right. I think at least I deserve some point instead of a zero grade.

Me: For the XXX assignment, your program gave the number of distinct Y as 5477.  Obviously, this is very far from the number of correct Y which was 764.  Since the answers (both number of Y and the representations of the Y) were given on the assignment webpage, your program does not merit partial credit. The answers were given so that you could check your answers and debug your program more effectively.

Additionally, you did not submit any documentation, and your format of your answers was not correct (see the assignment webpage for what your program was supposed to generate).

Student: I didn't see the correct answers in the assignment page. And the reason why my
value is far from the correct answer is <lame excuse that boils down to "I didn't read carefully">. I finished the assignment with the correct answer (in the attachment). It was a fairly easy assignment, and I really don't want to miss this only chance to pull up my grade because of a silly misunderstanding.

I haven't responded to the last one based on my rule of not emailing students (who only want to argue) more than once in a 24 hour period.  How in the world can he want "partial credit" for something where I GAVE HIM THE ANSWERS and he still managed to screw it up??!!!  ARRRGGGH!

[oseph]

The only one who decided on a topic early was the first-year masters student, who happens to be the only woman in the class.  The male students laughed at her when she turned in a draft for me to review.  They aren't laughing now.

I thought I was treating them like grownups by not requiring a topic for approval early on, a bibliography, a draft, etc.  I won't make that mistake again.

You're kidding - they laughed at her?

We can assume that you're planning to continue treating them like grownups when you grade their work? Sheesh.

Not kidding...I heard them teasing her about being so on top of things ("You'll get over that by next semester.").   

Yes, I already sent out an email telling them that if they can't turn in an acceptable paper by Friday, I highly recommend that they take an incomplete, with the understanding that I will hold them to even higher standards when I grade the late papers.  I also told them that if they choose to take the incomplete, they need to inform me by email and copy the graduate director on that email (he's a tough cookie).   From whispered conversations I've heard in the hallways, I suspect that email is responsible for some pretty stinky underpants.

I don't feel one bit bad.  I sent out multiple reminders that I'd look over drafts before Thanksgiving.  I offered to meet with them all.  I just didn't insist on making them follow baby research steps they should have learned earlier.  This is the only major assignment they've had all term.  They don't have a final exam.  They just seemed so nonchalant about the whole thing all term.  So last week I made them present their research topics (which most of them didn't actually have yet) to the undergraduates (it's primarily an undergraduate class with a graduate section).  The undergraduates, who had just given beautiful presentations on case studies the week before, were NOT impressed, and their questions really put the graduate students in their place.  I could tell they were embarrassed afterward by the way they slunk out of class.

You rock, Oseph!  

I'd say you're well on your way to getting a 'tough cookie' reputation of your own, which is a Good Thing and much to be encouraged and nurtured.

I'm usually a softie.  In this case, however, I just thought it was ridiculous, since they all understand the assignment, and I've given them lots of room to work on this paper (no other hefty assignments).  To their credit, they aren't blaming me (at least to my face).  Some of them have admitted something along the lines of, "It's taking longer than I expected," to which I reply, "Research always does; learn this lesson well, my friend."

[llanfair]

I'm usually a softie.  In this case, however, I just thought it was ridiculous, since they all understand the assignment, and I've given them lots of room to work on this paper (no other hefty assignments).  To their credit, they aren't blaming me (at least to my face).  Some of them have admitted something along the lines of, "It's taking longer than I expected," to which I reply, "Research always does; learn this lesson well, my friend."

And another lesson you've taught them is that embarrassment is a powerful tool.  They put themselves in that situation (ie. looking like incompetents in front of the undergrads), and they won't soon forget it.  Not to mention what the undergrads learned - I hope you won't mind if I steal this idea.  It was inspired.

[oseph]

I'm usually a softie.  In this case, however, I just thought it was ridiculous, since they all understand the assignment, and I've given them lots of room to work on this paper (no other hefty assignments).  To their credit, they aren't blaming me (at least to my face).  Some of them have admitted something along the lines of, "It's taking longer than I expected," to which I reply, "Research always does; learn this lesson well, my friend."

And another lesson you've taught them is that embarrassment is a powerful tool.  They put themselves in that situation (ie. looking like incompetents in front of the undergrads), and they won't soon forget it.  Not to mention what the undergrads learned - I hope you won't mind if I steal this idea.  It was inspired.

Steal away...

The funny thing was, I thought it would be a great learning experience for the undergrads to see how research papers develop.  It turned out to be a great learning experience of another sort.

[oseph]

Thanks for reminding me.  There is an update of sorts.  The reference librarian just called over here, laughing so hard she barely could speak.  He DID visit the reference desk (and obviously told them I sent him) and asked for books on zombies, werewolves, draculas [sic].  She tried to help him by asking about the assignment, which is:

Write a paper describing and explaining a natural phenomenon that interests you.

The reference librarian tried to explain that the professor probably meant something like the aurora borealis or St. Elmo's Fire.

The student insisted that he was interested in zombies, werewolves, draculas and could argue that they were natural phenomena.

So she led him to some books on zombies, werewolves, draculas...

Oh, come on! You've got to call the science prof!

You should wait until s/he's read the papers.  Then call and ask, "I had a quick question about a natural phenomena.  I'm unclear on the precise biological effects of silver on a werewolf.  Do you have any information on that?"

Oseph, convince the science prof to post on the favorite conversations thread when the paper is graded and the inevitable conversation occurs. This whole thing needs to be enshrined in the HoF.

Okay, I've got an update on how the zombies, werewolves, draculas paper went.

So the student tried to write about how zombies, werewolves, draculas USED to be natural phenomena, because people believed they really existed.  Therefore, AT ONE TIME, they were natural phenomena, and thereby qualify for the assignment.

Apparently most of the paper consisted of story-telling about superstitions regarding zombies, werewolves, draculas from medieval times to the present, concentrating especially on the 18th and 19th centuries.  The student did a lot of research, outlining instances where people talk about zombies, werewolves, draculas using scientific language, thus talking about how these natural phenomena of the time were explained.  The instructor is still trying to figure out what to do, because the student put so much more work into the paper than did the students who addressed actual natural phenomena, such as St. Elmo's Fire, and used just a couple of questionable sources.  Obviously the student should have checked with the instructor to get the topic approved (as was written on the syllabus, apparently), but on the other hand, the student did do a fair amount of work, and sort of manipulated the topic to try to fit the assignment.

[infopri]

The student did a lot of research, outlining instances where people talk about zombies, werewolves, draculas using scientific language, thus talking about how these natural phenomena of the time were explained.  The instructor is still trying to figure out what to do, because the student put so much more work into the paper than did the students who addressed actual natural phenomena, such as St. Elmo's Fire, and used just a couple of questionable sources.  Obviously the student should have checked with the instructor to get the topic approved (as was written on the syllabus, apparently), but on the other hand, the student did do a fair amount of work, and sort of manipulated the topic to try to fit the assignment.

Wow, that's a real dilemma, oseph!  I can certainly see flunking the student because the paper doesn't meet the assignment--but I can also see simply deducting some points (maybe even major points) and then giving the student credit for trying to make it fit and doing such a good job on the topic the s/he did choose.  If the paper truly is a serious and well-done research paper, I'd probably be inclined to go the latter route, I think.

I may be in this position, come Friday, though.  I have a number of (graduate!) students who never submitted their paper topics for approval, and the paper is due on Friday.  I truly hope no one has written on vampires, zombies, and werewolves.

[oseph]

The student did a lot of research, outlining instances where people talk about zombies, werewolves, draculas using scientific language, thus talking about how these natural phenomena of the time were explained.  The instructor is still trying to figure out what to do, because the student put so much more work into the paper than did the students who addressed actual natural phenomena, such as St. Elmo's Fire, and used just a couple of questionable sources.  Obviously the student should have checked with the instructor to get the topic approved (as was written on the syllabus, apparently), but on the other hand, the student did do a fair amount of work, and sort of manipulated the topic to try to fit the assignment.

Wow, that's a real dilemma, oseph!  I can certainly see flunking the student because the paper doesn't meet the assignment--but I can also see simply deducting some points (maybe even major points) and then giving the student credit for trying to make it fit and doing such a good job on the topic the s/he did choose.  If the paper truly is a serious and well-done research paper, I'd probably be inclined to go the latter route, I think.

Yeah, glad that for once it isn't my dilemma.

[macaroon]

Hey oseph -

Thanks for the zombies and werewolves update!
Dunno if this is helpful, but there is a "disease" called Ambras syndrome that causes people to look like werewolves.  Perhaps the other prof could suggest he take an incomplete and add a page about Ambras syndrome, thereby "fixing" the problem by actually describing a natural phenomenon. Dunno if I'd take off points here if it were my student.

[oseph]

Hey oseph -

Thanks for the zombies and werewolves update!
Dunno if this is helpful, but there is a "disease" called Ambras syndrome that causes people to look like werewolves.  Perhaps the other prof could suggest he take an incomplete and add a page about Ambras syndrome, thereby "fixing" the problem by actually describing a natural phenomenon. Dunno if I'd take off points here if it were my student.

How strange.  I was just at the library, and the man next to me was checking out books on Voodoo in the Caribbean.  Must be something in the air.