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[big_giant_head]

Yes.  It's also his/her responsibility to contact instructors before THREE WEEKS into the semester.

I did email the assignments, though.  The person registered for the class, after all, and our first major paper is not due until this coming Monday.  If the student can master all the introductory readings, then adequately follow the instructions in the Big Scary Assignment Sheet well enough to turn in the two assignments that lead into the major paper, and finally, turn in the major paper, I would take that as evidence that s/he/it is really able and engaged enough to participate, and I will welcome its presence into my classroom. 

My breath, however, is less than bated.

[yemaya]

Now.  Those of you who claim that other writing samples you have seen in other threads are "middle school" level writing?  Yes, you.  Read this, please.  This is from a college sophomore.  S/he/it has a 2.something GPA.

I wish I could say it is unique.

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but I have only had one student whose writing was that attrocious.  It was her first semester in college.  She was on academic probation for the second term, then flunked out after that.

[odessa]

Students just refuse to ask their classmates what they missed. Aaargh! I need some advice! What isn't clear? What more should I do besides being more of a tough_ _ _?

CCteach, oh I feel your pain!  I just started a thread inspired by much the same issue.  I wish I had some good suggestions.  I suspect the only thing that might work is to post a recap of the day's activities on the course management site every single day.  I have visions of coming back from each class and having to do a writeup:

1.  Class was called to order at 1:01 p.m. February 6th.

2.  The sign-in sheet was passed around.  Remember if you are a student-athlete and your coach contacts me about your classroom performance, the absence of your name on too many of these sign-in sheets will be to your detriment.  If you are right at the borderline between final grades come the end of the semester, your signature's absence or presence on these sheets could influence your final grade.  If financial aid contacts me ...

3.  Students were reminded that they need to be working on phase one of the team project which is due on February 20th.  John asked for clarification of point X.  If you want to know what that exchange was about, talk to John.

4.  The quiz that I heavily hinted at last class did indeed happen.  No, you can not make it up.  See policies in syllabus.

5.  I called on Samantha to summarize key points from Item AZ discussed in last class.  She looked sheepish and admitted she wasn't here.  No, I don't set out to embarrass students, but sometimes I get lucky.  My luck increases when I see a face that I can't attach a name to, which is an indication that that student hasn't been around to interact with me.  Do I know your name?

6.  Tim volunteered to summarize key points of Item AZ.  He did an excellent job and I made a mental note of that.  If you want to know what those key points are, talk to Tim.

7.  I introduced Concept LMNO.  Yes, I have posted the PowerPoints but they only contain a few key words and some images I used to liven things up a bit and drive the point home.  No, I will not type all of that up so that you can see if you "missed something important."  Nor will I repeat this during office hours for your benefit.

8.  There was some interesting discussion about the relationship between M and AZ.  Jenn, Jake and Jessica all made excellent points.  Too bad I didn't have a chance to write them down word for word so that I could post them here for your benefit.  You'll have to talk to Jenn, Jake and Jessica to see what they had to say.

9.  You missed my joke about Really Funny Thing.  I think I hit an 8 on the Laugh-O-Meter.  It just wouldn't be the same if I typed it up here or tried to replicate it for you during office hours.  Not that you'd bother to come to office hours any earlier than the week before final exams when you show up to beg for mercy.

10.  I organized students into groups of three to discuss Topical Questions related to Concept LMNO.  There were some lively discussions.  Then I had several of the groups report to the class as a whole about what they thought The Most Important Point was.  More lively discussion followed.  So, in answer to your question, yes, you did miss Something Important.  Contact Greg, Sarah, Amy, Rob or any number of your other classmates and see if they'll fill you in on this part of the class.  I don't know how much good it will do to ask people if you can borrow their notes because they were really rocking on some of the discussion and I didn't see a lot of notetaking happening.  However, I do feel confident that those who were here and participating will retain some of this Important Information.  You should really try to get it.

11.  I summarized a few thoughts about the class.  I'm not going to repeat that here.  I'm sure somebody has it in their notes.  Ask around.

12.  I handed back the case prep outlines from last week.  Remember, I do not perpetually carry graded assignments around.  Since you were not here to collect your graded assignment,  it is your responsibility to come to my office -- during office hours -- and pick it up.  You are also not allowed to complain on the evals how it takes forever for me to "remember" to return things to you.  I am not responsible for remembering that you were absent on the day I handed something back.

13.  I reminded students that they need to be reading Chapter 4 in preparation for the next class.

14.  Class dismissed at 1:49 p.m.

15.  Katie came up to tell me a funny story that relates to what we were talking about per Concept LMNO.  She had her hand up during class, but we were running out of time.  It was a good story and a good example.  I'll probably start next class off with it, because it will do an excellent job of reiterating some of what I was hoping people would "get" out of today's class.  Of course, if you're not here next time, you'll have to talk to Katie and see if she'll tell you the story and explain the connection.

Really, ccteach, I wish I had a solution.

O.

[octoprof]

Students just refuse to ask their classmates what they missed. Aaargh! I need some advice! What isn't clear? What more should I do besides being more of a tough_ _ _?

CCteach, oh I feel your pain!  I just started a thread inspired by much the same issue.  I wish I had some good suggestions.  I suspect the only thing that might work is to post a recap of the day's activities on the course management site every single day. 

You have to just stand tough, ccteach. The student has to learn to be responsible for him or herself.

Odessa, you post made me laugh except that I know some profs will do something similar, thus the students are never going to learn to be responsible for themselves.

[voxprincipalis]

With all due respect, I think that a lot of the time we have expectations of what our students will do that are just too high.

May I point out that so often on the fora we get people asking the same question for the billionth time? The question has been answered a billion times before, and the answers are readily available, but does that person think to do a search or manually look in older posts for the answer? No. They ask it again.

Or, as just happened, someone uses a term that someone else doesn't know. What do they do? They post and ask what it means. Instead, they *could* just Google the damn thing. But no, they ask, so that someone else has to take the trouble to respond to answer the question for them. People b*tch and moan about students asking dumb questions and taking up professors' valuable time, but forumites do the same thing all the time and then get pissy when they're told the information is available for them to find out with just a few mouse clicks. Sound familiar?

If people with PhDs do not choose to be responsible for finding information on their own, how can we possibly assume that undergrads will reliably do it? Of course, they SHOULD. But then people here should do the same thing. And they don't. Because frankly, they're too lazy. They don't want to. They would rather ask. Your students are the same way.

So you can provide them with a course of action that's what you would LIKE them to do, but you will only waste your energy if you get angry when they don't do it. If you choose to hold the line and make them get notes, etc., from each other (and there's nothing wrong with that; I do it), all you have to do is have a short and polite email template ready to go that says "Dear X: I received your email telling me about your absence. As per the syllabus, you will need to get assignments and notes from another classmate. Best wishes, Prof. Y." Done. Just keep sending the email -- but do it dispassionately, politely, and firmly, and don't get angry about it. If you just get over the expectation that people are going to do as they're told, you'll be a lot happier. (Sounds crazy, doesn't it?)

And, FWIW, remember that you may have other students who are missing class and who *are* getting the notes/assignments from someone else. You just don't know about them, because they're not talking to you directly -- which is how it should work!

VP

[science_expat]

Well said, VP.

[ccteach]

With all due respect, I think that a lot of the time we have expectations of what our students will do that are just too high.

May I point out that so often on the fora we get people asking the same question for the billionth time? The question has been answered a billion times before, and the answers are readily available, but does that person think to do a search or manually look in older posts for the answer? No. They ask it again.

Or, as just happened, someone uses a term that someone else doesn't know. What do they do? They post and ask what it means. Instead, they *could* just Google the damn thing. But no, they ask, so that someone else has to take the trouble to respond to answer the question for them. People b*tch and moan about students asking dumb questions and taking up professors' valuable time, but forumites do the same thing all the time and then get pissy when they're told the information is available for them to find out with just a few mouse clicks. Sound familiar?

If people with PhDs do not choose to be responsible for finding information on their own, how can we possibly assume that undergrads will reliably do it? Of course, they SHOULD. But then people here should do the same thing. And they don't. Because frankly, they're too lazy. They don't want to. They would rather ask. Your students are the same way.

Gosh, so that's the problem. I don't have a PhD! If I had a PhD, I would've known better to not bother you all.

Seriously, I was sharing how interesting it was that the more clear I made my policy, the more students ignored it.

CT

[fannie]

From a student last seen in my office in April 2006.  Who wants to declare my major so as to graduate this semester.  No communication in the meantime. 

Hi This is Mean Jim I talked to you a few semester ago about graduating with a [fannie's program's] degree I was short a few credits but should have them by now!!! I tried to see you at your office but our hours kind of butt heads!!! Could you look and see if I qualfy or what I need for it! If you need more than just my name please let me know! I would like to graduate this spring if possible! I am substituting now and I get a pay increase with a 4 year degree! Please let me know Thanks Mean Jim

Dear Mr. Jim:

Thank you for your interest in a [fannie's program] degree.  I respectfully refer you to publication QWZ-2644359, which specifically states that use of more than two exclamation points in a paragraph or a maximum of three for an entire e-mail disqualifies one from participation in this program.  However, I believe that there is no exclamation point limit on majors in [fannie's least-favorite colleague in another discipline's program], so perhaps you should speak to Dr. [Fannie's least-favorite colleague] concerning the option of changing to that major.

Thanks again for inquiring, and we wish you the best of luck in your academic endeavors in another department and in your future career.

Yes, I know.  That'd get Fannie fired right quick.  Also, the chances are good that least-favorite-colleague is in the same program.  Still, there might be some sort of carrot to inspire Mean Jim to go plague bedevil inflict himself upon investigate some other major.

It's terrible to say, but I have been contemplating something just about like that!  I am looking for loopholes that disallow changing the major at this point in the semester....and I found one....I can require him to give me a....



tee hee!



WRITING SAMPLE!!!!!

[treehugger1]

With all due respect, I think that a lot of the time we have expectations of what our students will do that are just too high.

May I point out that so often on the fora we get people asking the same question for the billionth time? The question has been answered a billion times before, and the answers are readily available, but does that person think to do a search or manually look in older posts for the answer? No. They ask it again.

Or, as just happened, someone uses a term that someone else doesn't know. What do they do? They post and ask what it means. Instead, they *could* just Google the damn thing. But no, they ask, so that someone else has to take the trouble to respond to answer the question for them. People b*tch and moan about students asking dumb questions and taking up professors' valuable time, but forumites do the same thing all the time and then get pissy when they're told the information is available for them to find out with just a few mouse clicks. Sound familiar?
...

Yes but .... Yes but .... VP, communication is about so much more than merely transmitting information -- even in the most apparently instrumental exchanges. Sure, the student could have just read the syllabus. Sure, the poster could have just looked up something on Google. But, I think that misses the point. I think people -- "slacker" posters and students, included -- often ask not (only) out of laziness, but also out of some desire for contact, for relationship,etc. Just my opinion, of course.

[treehugger1]

Not that the comparison between slacker Formunites and students isn't an apt one. The only difference that springs to mind is the following: No Forumite is "forced" to go out and find that information for someone else, or read a stupid thread. The same can't be said for profs. They do find themselves forced to respond. Hence the annoyance.

[ccteach]

With all due respect, I think that a lot of the time we have expectations of what our students will do that are just too high.

May I point out that so often on the fora we get people asking the same question for the billionth time? The question has been answered a billion times before, and the answers are readily available, but does that person think to do a search or manually look in older posts for the answer? No. They ask it again.

Or, as just happened, someone uses a term that someone else doesn't know. What do they do? They post and ask what it means. Instead, they *could* just Google the damn thing. But no, they ask, so that someone else has to take the trouble to respond to answer the question for them. People b*tch and moan about students asking dumb questions and taking up professors' valuable time, but forumites do the same thing all the time and then get pissy when they're told the information is available for them to find out with just a few mouse clicks. Sound familiar?
...

Yes but .... Yes but .... VP, communication is about so much more than merely transmitting information -- even in the most apparently instrumental exchanges. Sure, the student could have just read the syllabus. Sure, the poster could have just looked up something on Google. But, I think that misses the point. I think people -- "slacker" posters and students, included -- often ask not (only) out of laziness, but also out of some desire for contact, for relationship,etc. Just my opinion, of course.

Thank you, treehugger. I will keep this in mind when I deal with my students.

I appreciate the support that I have received from this forum.

[comp_queen]

In fairness to the student who went home instead of getting medical care nearer to school--it wouldn't surprise me if their parents' insurance requires them to do so.

I was so lucky--I had great insurance through my dad's company all through college and grad school--I went to the doctor, went to the pharmacy, showed them the insurance card, and we did the visit, I bought the medicine, whatever.  Location was never an issue.

Some of my friends had to go home (hours and states of driving) just to jump through some insane insurance hoop to continue receiving prescriptions for medication they'd been on for years.

Of course the student still needs to take responsibility for the coursework, but the going home in and of itself was very likely not a choice.

[voxprincipalis]

Gosh, so that's the problem. I don't have a PhD! If I had a PhD, I would've known better to not bother you all.

Seriously, I was sharing how interesting it was that the more clear I made my policy, the more students ignored it.

CT

Ccteach, I think you have dreadfully misinterpreted me. I was not comparing your particular post about students to forumites not wanting to look up information, at all. I was just noting how common the disinclination to independently search out a readily accessible answer is on the fora. We see it all the time, which is why I asked if it sounded familiar. I sense that you might have misread that as an attack on you. But your post is not one that has a readily accessible, factual answer that can be found by a simple search, so it is not at all the same kind of thing.

VP

[slac_vap]

In fairness to the student who went home instead of getting medical care nearer to school--it wouldn't surprise me if their parents' insurance requires them to do so.

Oh, I know.  I was really kind of just riffing on the whole "fault" issue that students seem to cite so much.  As VP said much more directly, the question of fault is not really essential; all that really matters is that it is the student's responsibility to make up the material in a timely manner.

Of course the student still needs to take responsibility for the coursework...

And so you and I agree.  :-)

[ccteach]

Gosh, so that's the problem. I don't have a PhD! If I had a PhD, I would've known better to not bother you all.

Seriously, I was sharing how interesting it was that the more clear I made my policy, the more students ignored it.

CT

Ccteach, I think you have dreadfully misinterpreted me. I was not comparing your particular post about students to forumites not wanting to look up information, at all. I was just noting how common the disinclination to independently search out a readily accessible answer is on the fora. We see it all the time, which is why I asked if it sounded familiar. I sense that you might have misread that as an attack on you. But your post is not one that has a readily accessible, factual answer that can be found by a simple search, so it is not at all the same kind of thing.

VP

Thanks, VP. Yes, I do see similar questions asked over and over. I see what you're saying. It's just that after getting the umpteenth message asking what I did in class, I was a bit frustrated.