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[thinkuniversity]

......We tried to do a racial breakdown of the group. We kept getting very strange results. It finally turned out that every single person who listed hispanic as a background race also listed at least one other race. I finally broke it down into caucasian, black, Native American, Asian, Hispanic and other (being those people of mixed race, but without hispanic). Apparently all the people who considered themselves Hispanic also considered themselves something else. I thought that was very interesting.

Wow, this goes back to the US Census Bureau's Guidance on the Presentation and Comparison of Race and Hispanic Origin Data and the list above that shows the races that actually make up Hispanic/Latino.

The biggest problem is the media and researchers have used Hispanic/Latino to mean a race/or ethnicity.  When they are not supposed to do. Hispanic/Latino just means place of origin and does not define one's race or ethnicity.

For example: Are black Cubans the same race and ethnicity as white Cubans?

or

Are Amerindian Mexicans the same race or ethnicity as white Mexicans?

or how about this one.

Are  Amerindian Colombians or Amerindian Mexicans the same race and ethnicity as a black Cuban or a black Puerto Rican?

It's great how your study exposed this issue. Thanks for sharing that data with us.

Universities should show their demographics of their student enrollments in the way Seattle Public Schools collects data on Hispanics/Latinos. Or at least try to show in a similar format. Because currently most universities compare Hispanic/Latino with black, white, Asian, Native American etc. is not correct. It also does not follow the US Census Bureau's Guidance on the Presentation and Comparison of Race and Hispanic Origin Data.

as seen on page 4 of this link
http://www.seattleschools.org/area/siso/disprof/2005/DP05demog.pdf

[atalanta]

nm

[thinkuniversity]

Now here's a question too. Are white Hispanics/Latinos a minority in the the US by race? People from England, Scottland, France, Euro-Russia, Germany, Denmark, Poland, Italy, Ireland, Greece, and Spain in the US are not a minorities by race.

Let's take a look at the population of Brazil and Chile (who are all Latinos in the US).

Brazil
Brazil is one of the few American countries which were not colonized, influenced, nor settled by Spain. Brazil was a colony of of course of Portugal.

Population: 188,078,227 
white 54%,
black 45%
other (includes Japanese, Arab, Amerindian)

European Portuguese are the main European ethnic group in Brazil.

Italian immigration to Brazil was quite significant, especially from 1880 to 1930. The main areas of settlement were in southern Brazil, which enjoys a temperate climate, namely the states of São Paulo, Rio Grande do Sul, Santa Catarina, Paraná, Espírito Santo, and Minas Gerais.

European Spanish immigration began in the 1880s with Galician smallholders who settled mainly in urban areas of Brazil. Starting in the early 20th century, most Spanish immigrants were Andalusian peasants who worked in the coffee plantations, mainly in rural areas of São Paulo State.
 
European Spanish immigrants numbered approximately 14% of the foreign settlers in Brazil (700.000 Spaniards immigrated to Brazil between 1880-1950), being the third largest foreign ethnic group, after the Portuguese and Italians, and 78% of them settled in São Paulo State.
 
There is an estimated 15 million Brazilians of direct Spanish descent. They are totally integrated into Brazilian society and nowadays most of them only speak Portuguese.
 
European German immigrants first arrived in Brazil starting at the beginning of the 1800's. Germans immigrated mainly from Germany, but also from Switzerland, Austria, and Russia. Some Germans came from Spanish-speaking Latin American countries.

European Germans are Brazil's fourth largest immigrant population after the Portuguese, Italians and Spaniards. The majority of them arrived between the I and the II World War.

-----------------------------
Chile
Population: 16,134,219
white and white-Amerindian 95%
Amerindian 3%
other 2%

Chile is a relatively homogenous country and most of its population is of predominantly European Spanish origin.

Non-Spanish European immigrants arrived in Chile mainly to the northern and southern extremities of the country  during the 19th and 20th centuries, including English, Irish, Italians, French, and Balkans.

In 1848 a small but noteworthy European German immigration took place, sponsored by the Chilean government with aims of colonizing the southern region.

[gennimom]

I think the problem with all the Germans, British, Irish, French and other white races, is that most of the white people in this country can lay claim to at least two of them, if not more. I personally can lay claim to German, English and Scots-Irish. My mother tends to think that is not Scottish and Irish, but more a descent from that clan of Scots that got banished to Ireland, didn't really intermarry with the natives, and then migrated to the U.S. That could be wrong however, since my brother traced one ancestor to Belfast and another to Bellymena, Antrim Co., Ireland. I guess we have to count my Swedish ancestor, even if his line did come through Germany. Once they got here, they started intermarrying and mixing the gene pools too much to separate them. At least if you've been here for 200 or 300 (or 400 in some cases) years.

[thinkuniversity]

For example on the news if a newscaster were to say "The police are looking for a Hispanic male that stands 6'-1." Who would the public know who to look for? Is this person a white Hispanic, Amerindian Hispanic or a black Hispanic?

It shows the problem with trying to use the geographical term Hispanic/Latino as a term substitution for a race/ethnicity.

[smurfette]

thinkuniversity-

As a non-American, I could talk for hours on how frustrated and mad I get at the weird ethnic categories this country uses. The hispanic one really gets to me.  Does the US not recognize that the US is NOT the only country where there has been immigration? There is no such thing as "American" but how come an entire continent gets lumped under Hispanic? That is absurd. What would a black Mexican be? Or a Brazilian of Japanese descent? Or a Guatemalan of primarily Amerindian descent? It doesn't make any sense and I am always trying to explain to people that Latin America is a place, just like North America is a place, not a uniform ethnic category.

[thinkuniversity]

thinkuniversity-

As a non-American, I could talk for hours on how frustrated and mad I get at the weird ethnic categories this country uses. The hispanic one really gets to me.  Does the US not recognize that the US is NOT the only country where there has been immigration? There is no such thing as "American" but how come an entire continent gets lumped under Hispanic? That is absurd. What would a black Mexican be? Or a Brazilian of Japanese descent? Or a Guatemalan of primarily Amerindian descent? It doesn't make any sense and I am always trying to explain to people that Latin America is a place, just like North America is a place, not a uniform ethnic category.

Well according to the 42 million Hispanics/Latinos in the US a black Mexican and a Brazilian Japanese are Latinos. A Guatemalan Amerindian is a Hispanic/Latino

This is why the universities need to follow the U.S. Census Bureau Guidance on the Presentation and Comparison of Race and Hispanic Origin Data.

The fact that the media keeps reporting that there are more Hispanics/Latinos than there are blacks in the US is not correct because they are counting blacks in that Hispanic/Latino population number as well as Amerindians and whites.

You hit the nail on the head with your statement.

On page 1 of this thread topic there's a demographic break down of the races/ethnicities that make up countries in the Latino/Hispanic region of the Americas.

Univeristies and public school systems need to start collecting data in the correct way.

[thinkuniversity]

Take a read of these articles to further understand that Hispanics/Latinos are not a race and are not an ethnicity and universities should stop counting them as such.

This link is about Amerindian unity in North and South America
It clearly shows that Amerindians Hispanics/Latinos are not the same as white Hispanics/Latinos or black Hispanics/Latinos
Mexica Movement
Introduction Presentation
http://www.mexica-movement.org/timexihcah/video/mmintro.htm


Race Divides Hispanics, Report Says
Integration and Income Vary With Skin Color

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A51282-2003Jul13?language=printer

By Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 14, 2003; Page A03

White and black Hispanics - as well as Hispanics who say that they are "some other race" - work different jobs, earn different levels of pay and reside in segregated neighborhoods based on the shade of their skin, according to a report released today by the Lewis Mumford Center for Comparative Urban and Regional Research at the State University of New York in Albany.

The report, "How Race Counts for Hispanic Americans," follows the recent declaration by Census officials that Hispanics, who can be of any race, have become the nation's largest ethnic minority. Its authors and others who examine the U.S. Hispanic population said it was the first to look at how the group is divided along the color line.

Latinos who described themselves as white on the 2000 Census had the highest incomes and lowest rates of unemployment and poverty, and they tended to live near communities of non-Latino whites, said the report, which analyzed Census figures nationwide. Nearly 50 percent of Latinos who filed a Census report said they were white, according to the center's report.

The 2.7 percent of Latinos who described themselves as black, most of them from the Caribbean, had lower incomes and higher rates of poverty than the other groups -- despite having a higher level of education.

Among Latinos who described themselves as "some other race," earnings and levels of poverty and unemployment fell between black and white members of their ethnic group. About 47 percent of Latinos said on Census forms that they are "some other race," according to the report.

"The point of the report," said John R. Logan, the report's lead researcher, "is that if we take seriously the way people talk about their race, and the reality of their lives, we find that there are real distinctions between white and black Latinos and Hispanics who say they
are some other race."

White Hispanics, the report said, have more economic power: Their median household income is $39,900, about $5,000 more than the median income of black Hispanic households and about $2,500 more than Hispanics who say they are some other race.

But black Hispanics are better-educated: They average nearly 12 years of education, compared with 11 for white Hispanics and 10 for the "other race" group. Despite their education, black Hispanics have 12 percent unemployment, compared with 8 percent for white Hispanics and about 10 percent for Hispanics who say they are neither race.

Logan said black Hispanics are intermarrying with blacks at a rate much higher than white Hispanics with white non-Hispanics and Hispanics of some other race with any other ethnic or racial group.  ......

.....In the average metropolitan neighborhood where white Hispanics live, there are hardly any residents who are black Hispanic, the study found. The same is true in neighborhoods populated by Hispanics who say they are neither white nor black. .....



The Roots of 'Hispanic'; 1975 Committee of Bureaucrats
Produced Designation
 
Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Oct, 15, 2003
A21

In 1975, when Flores-Hughes was a baby-faced bureaucrat working for the Department of Health, Education and Welfare, she sat on the highly contentious Ad Hoc Committee on Racial and Ethnic Definitions.

"We chose the word 'Hispanic,' " she said proudly in a recent interview. The choice resounded throughout the federal government, including at the Office of Management and Budget, which placed the word on census forms for the first time in 1980. But the decision touched off a debate in the wider community over whether "Latino" should have been the designated term, and that debate still rages.  .....

...."Latino," she said, would have included Italians, so she would not endorse it. And "Spanish surname" would have given protection to people who had never been discriminated against, she said. Besides, she said, not everyone in the Spanish diaspora has a Spanish-sounding name. .....


Mexico Slow to Confront Racial Issues,
Experts Say
 http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/news/articles/0731MEXICO-RACISM31.html

Lennox Samuels
Dallas Morning News
 
July 31, 2005

Series on the Mexican racial hierarchy and its implications for America
Shackled to an [ungrateful] corpse
Part 1 of a Series on the Mexican racial hierarchy and its implications for America
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/mexico.htm

Importing Mexico's Worsening
Racial Inequality
Part 2 of a Series on the Mexican racial hierarchy and its implications for America
By Steve Sailer
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/mexico_part2.htm

America's Imported Caste System
Part 3 of a Series on the Mexican racial hierarchy and its implications for America
http://www.vdare.com/sailer/mexico_part3.htm

-----------------------

Mexican Ways, African Roots
Most of the city's Hispanic residents are natives of a region populated by descendants of black slaves

By Lisa Hoppenjans and Ted Richardson
Winston-Salem Journal

.....Mexicans pride themselves on their mestizo culture. They are proud of the mixture of indigenous and European heritage that most Mexicans share. But there is another source of mestizo heritage that is less recognized - African slaves.

Their descendants, Afro-Mexicans, inhabit the Costa Chica, a narrow, coastal region stretching 200 miles along the Pacific Ocean in southern Mexico. Many Mexicans don't even know they exist. Afro-Mexicans are estimated to make up less than 1 percent of Mexico's population of 105 million, but they are a majority of the 30,000 Hispanics that officials have estimated to be living in Forsyth County. ......


......The Afro-Mexicans know that they look different from their countrymen, but they have only recently begun to truly understand their heritage.

The people have their own story about how blacks came to live in the Costa Chica region. The story, passed down by mothers and grandmothers for generations, tells of a shipload of slaves that crashed at Punta Maldonado, a rocky beach 20 miles from Cuaji. ..........

[thinkuniversity]

Here's the full article


The Roots of 'Hispanic'; 1975 Committee of Bureaucrats
Produced Designation

http://www.asu.edu/educ/epsl/LPRU/newsarchive/Art3000.txt

Darryl Fears
Washington Post Staff Writer
Oct, 15, 2003
A21

[thinkuniversity]

Now that I've posted all of this data do you know see why I've asked the question

Topic: Why are Hispanics/Latinos counted as a race or an ethnicity by universities etc? 

It seems like there's a hidden agenda to not count Amerindians and to undercount blacks.

I say this because we are always hearing there are more Hispanics/Latinos than there are blacks/African Americans. But, as we see the blacks/African Americans are still the nation's largest minority by race/ethnicity and that's followed by Native Americans/Amerindians/American Indians.

The Hispanic/Latino is the largest place of origin.

[thinkuniversity]

....As a non-American, I could talk for hours on how frustrated and mad I get at the weird ethnic categories this country uses. The hispanic one really gets to me.  Does the US not recognize that the US is NOT the only country where there has been immigration? ...

..It doesn't make any sense and I am always trying to explain to people that Latin America is a place, just like North America is a place, not a uniform ethnic category. ....

Your statement is so true. Brazil and Chile and a number of other Latin American countries also have had huge immigration like the US. But, the US is treating all of these people from Latin America as if they suddenly lost their race and ethnic heritage by lumping them together in this group called Hispanic/Latino.

[gennimom]

Did you ever consider that Americans are obtuse enough not to be able to tell the difference? I mean, we have people coming from every country in the world to live here. The average American can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese, or Portuguese or Spanish, much less the other countries. The American government is trying to "simplify" it for us. And note, I said average.

[prytania3]

Question: Why are Hispanics/Latinos counted as a race or an ethnicity by universities etc?

Answer: Because this is the way Richard Nixon officially categorized the world.

Doesn't get any simpler than that, does it?  Suggest you see the essay about Nixon in Brown by Richard Rodriguez.

[thinkuniversity]

Did you ever consider that Americans are obtuse enough not to be able to tell the difference? I mean, we have people coming from every country in the world to live here. The average American can't tell the difference between Chinese and Japanese, or Portuguese or Spanish, much less the other countries. The American government is trying to "simplify" it for us. And note, I said average.

The only thing it isn't the average American is not the one who created the category Hispanic/Latino.

But, on the other hand we do know that the demographers know the difference and they are the ones that have pushed the category Hispanic/Latino on the population. These same demographers are the one's that are publishing information misleading the nation and the AP and all the media outlets repeat their findings. For this fact the universities, colleges and public school systems use their demographic format of data to lump all people from Latin America together as Hispanic (typically stated and not even using the term Latino). When according to the OMB one is never supposed to compare a race/ethnic category with the regional place of origin category known as Hispanic/Latino.

But, in the US no one ever had a problem knowing what an Amerindian person is, what a black person is, what an Asian is and what a white person is. But, now that people are coming from South America, Mexico (North America), Central America (including the Caribbean)....these typical American people don't know the difference between a black, Amerindian and a white person only because they speak Spanish or Portuguese.

Since when did a spoken language confuse people to what race/ethnicity one is but, in the US if you speak Spanish or Portuguese? If a black, white, Amerindian or Asian spoke French or English are typical Americans confused about what race/ethnicity these people are? Nope, not at all.

The top American demographers act like they don't even know. But, in fact they exactly do know what race/ethnicity these people are. The demographers and the media just does not want to follow the US Census Bureau's Guidance on the Presentation and Comparison of Race and Hispanic Origin Data that treats race and Hispanic/Latino origin as two separate and distinct concepts in accordance with guidelines from the Office of Management and Budget (OMB).

[thinkuniversity]

Question: Why are Hispanics/Latinos counted as a race or an ethnicity by universities etc?

Answer: Because this is the way Richard Nixon officially categorized the world.

Doesn't get any simpler than that, does it?  Suggest you see the essay about Nixon in Brown by Richard Rodriguez.

Great!....here's a link to a write up.

'Brown: The Last Discovery of America' by Richard Rodriguez

By Jonathan Yardley
Sunday, April 21, 2002; Page BW02

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A10100-2002Apr18?language=printer