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[supernumerary]

Sorry for starting a new thread - I meant to revive that thread about how many PhDs go to church, but I'm in a dash and really wanted to post this from today's CHE:

"WHILE LESS RELIGIOUS than most Americans, professors are more religious than might be commonly assumed, according to a new survey. Only 10 percent of professors surveyed said they did not believe in God."

Just thought that might change the minds of those who were saying that more education correlates with less religiosity. [pedant, that's not my word - someone else used it in that thread].

[crazybatlady]

But there's a big difference between believing in god and being religious, don't you think?

[grasshopper]

But there's a big difference between believing in god and being religious, don't you think?

Yes.

Especially if you're a Buddhist, I'd imagine.

PS - religiosity is indeed a word. Don't bait the pedant.

[francie_]

But there's a big difference between believing in god and being religious, don't you think?

Yes, I quite agree, CBL, but I'm thinking that by "religious" Supernumerary meant "practicing."  To me that means regular participation in a congregation and/or following certain disciplines, um, religiously, such as daily meditation or private prayer.

Members of my church (Presbyterian USA) in my former community include many professors.  That fact in itself has created a very interesting, and sometimes unruly, dynamic within the church (years ago one of them used to "grade" the pastor's sermon each week) but it also tends to ensure a lively questioning in the ongoing search for deeper spiritual connections to the Almighty, to Christ, and to ourselves.

[crazybatlady]

I haven't read the CHE article, but here's what I'm wondering:

I agree that religious usually means practicing.  But, the quote below suggests that religiosity = belief in god.

"WHILE LESS RELIGIOUS than most Americans, professors are more religious than might be commonly assumed, according to a new survey. Only 10 percent of professors surveyed said they did not believe in God."

So, my issue is with the survey, the wording of the questions, and the wording of the conclusions.

[zharkov]

I agree that "belief in God" does not equal "religious."

When asked if I believe in God, I sometimes ask in response, "By "God," what do you mean?"  (The old man with the long white beard in the paintings? The sum of all physical laws in the universe? A personal god? A prime mover who got things going, then walked away?) 

Naturally, my question gets few answers and people change the topic.

When John Silber, ex-BU president and a Kant scholar was running for public office, a reporter asked him whether he believed in God. Silber's said in response, "You wouldn't understand my answer."

[notaprof]

I am just relieved to find out that the article is about the level of belief in Gawwwd (as it is said in a fake, awe-filled way by those ministers on TV) by faculty.  When I read the Daily Chronicle headline in my email, I scanned it quickly and thought it said "Professors are not as godlike as some have portrayed them."  That would shake the whole world order if students/staff/the general public thought that faculty are not actually gods.  Whew!

So I don't find it surprising that 90% of faculty believe in themselves.  

[trentsands]

I agree that "belief in God" does not equal "religious."

When asked if I believe in God, I sometimes ask in response, "By "God," what do you mean?"  (The old man with the long white beard in the paintings? The sum of all physical laws in the universe? A personal god? A prime mover who got things going, then walked away?) 

Naturally, my question gets few answers and people change the topic.

When John Silber, ex-BU president and a Kant scholar was running for public office, a reporter asked him whether he believed in God. Silber's said in response, "You wouldn't understand my answer."

Most, I think, would take the answer to the questions in both these situations as,"No."

[francie_]

I haven't read the CHE article, but here's what I'm wondering:

I agree that religious usually means practicing.  But, the quote below suggests that religiosity = belief in god.

"WHILE LESS RELIGIOUS than most Americans, professors are more religious than might be commonly assumed, according to a new survey. Only 10 percent of professors surveyed said they did not believe in God."

So, my issue is with the survey, the wording of the questions, and the wording of the conclusions.

I haven't read the CHE article either, but I just read the Harvard working paper on which it is based (thanks to the helpful link provided).  The authors describe very clearly how the study was designed and how each question was worded.  Better to read the more nuanced findings because the researchers did not find that 90% of professors do believe in the existence of God.

[crazybatlady]

That's what I suspected, Francie.

I get really suspicious about conclusions that seem unrelated to the evidence given.  As my snarkiness on other threads might suggest.

[grasshopper]

I haven't read the CHE article either, but I just read the Harvard working paper on which it is based (thanks to the helpful link provided).  The authors describe very clearly how the study was designed and how each question was worded.  Better to read the more nuanced findings because the researchers did not find that 90% of professors do believe in the existence of God.

I'd be interested in reading that paper. Is the link on the main CHE page, or only available to suscribers? I'm off to check the main page Right Now, but if it's only available to suscribers, can one of you play dirty and post the link for the restovus? 

There's a whole big wide world of difference between choice A) believing in God/god/gaaawwwwd and choice B) not believing in God/god/gaaawwwwd.

[grasshopper]

I just finished reading the working paper. Fascinating... not really shocking, but fascinating.

Actually, there was one thing that surprised me: that non-Christian religious practitioners/believers were such a small group. Most other sociological studies of religious beliefs and practices in the U.S. are all over the "pick-and-choose" mentality that many Americans seem to have toward religion. Given that, I'm surprised that so many self-identified as Christian. I wonder what that means in practice, however. Do they self-identify as, say, Catholic, but still incorporate yoga or meditation into their religious or spiritual lives?

Oh - and I apologize for my multiple misspellings of "subscriber." Doy.

[trentsands]

Do they self-identify as, say, Catholic, but still incorporate yoga or meditation into their religious or spiritual lives?

Just curious, but do you think that yoga or meditation delegitimizing one's claim to Christianity?  Very many (and virtually everybody I know) who do yoga consider it a relaxing and rigorous exercise that it entirely separate from spirituality or religious practice.  Many Christians use meditation as a practice to contemplate faith and theological issues; Orthrodox iconography was developed for this meditative purpose.

[menotti]

Do they self-identify as, say, Catholic, but still incorporate yoga or meditation into their religious or spiritual lives?

Just curious, but do you think that yoga or meditation delegitimizing one's claim to Christianity?  Very many (and virtually everybody I know) who do yoga consider it a relaxing and rigorous exercise that it entirely separate from spirituality or religious practice.  Many Christians use meditation as a practice to contemplate faith and theological issues; Orthrodox iconography was developed for this meditative purpose.

Most people probably wouldn't, but I know a high school teacher who was accused of trying to convert her students to Buddhism when she did yoga in gym class.

[grasshopper]

Do they self-identify as, say, Catholic, but still incorporate yoga or meditation into their religious or spiritual lives?

Just curious, but do you think that yoga or meditation delegitimizing one's claim to Christianity? 

No, I don't. But the Catholic Church does :) 

I'm just wondering whether or not the survey (and analysis) accounts for the pluralism within individual practices of religion, which most sociologists claim is a big part of the contemporary (North) American religious climate. Someone can self-identify as a "moderate Christian," for instance, and that label can mean a whole honkload of different things.