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[acrimone]

I recently got into an argument with a colleague from our Sociology Dept. about one of our other colleagues over in the History Dept., specifically about whether or not said other colleague is creating a racially hostile environment.

In his office, the other colleague has four pictures up, each surrounded by a flag drapped in a sort of bunting pattern around the picture.  They look very cool and i've often thought it appropriate for professors to have things like that decorating their offices.  The first one is George Washington, with a replica old-style stars and stripes with the stars in a circle.  The second one is Jefferson, with a "Don't Tread on Me" replica.  The fourth one was Lafayette, with the French flag, and the last one was Robert E. Lee, with the Stars and Bars.

Anyway, apparently the first colleague finally visited the other colleague in his office, and has, on the basis that the Confederate Flag is draped about a picture, decided that the other colleague is the Grand Wizard of the KKK devoted to White Supremacy.  Despite the fact that he's half Chicano and at least an eighth African American, despite the fact that I've never seen anyone -- especially not in Academia -- who cares less about racial issues of any type and who so obviously gets along with people of any genetic persuasion.  Apparently this flag has been noticed by other faculty before, but no one cared enough to do anything about it (or maybe they understood the point that it was part of American History... I don't know).

Anyway, the first colleague has decided to start a war against the history prof, and has started trying to agitate the student body as well.  She tried to get me to join the bandwagon, and the argument started when I politely declined.  (She actually said "You're just siding with him because he's one of your people," which I took to mean people with Spanish surnames.  She knows she's safe on that score because I don't ever complain, believing that people have a right to be racist if they want.) 

I'm fairly certain I can weather this storm, even if I do illuminate myself as a bit of a target by sticking up for my colleague.  But I'd like to know what your views on this subject are.  Is my friend a racist and doesn't know it?  Is he just oblivious, but people are justified in thinking he is a racist?  Is it unreasonable to think he's a racist, but reasonable to say that he's being unnecssarily insensitive?  Should the offended colleague take a phenobarbitol?

What's your take?  I'd be curious to know.

And if you happen to be on our campus, you already knew about this and probably have already figured out who I am already so feel free to come chat about it in person.

[supernumerary]

Is my friend a racist and doesn't know it?  Is he just oblivious, but people are justified in thinking he is a racist?  Is it unreasonable to think he's a racist, but reasonable to say that he's being unnecssarily insensitive?  Should the offended colleague take a phenobarbitol?

Of course he's not racist. Is he unnecessarily insensitive? That's the difficult and more important question. The charge of 'racism' is usually silly, unless we're talking about people with nasty and hostile views which certainly doesn't apply in this case. I agree that people have a right to be racist if they want - there's no law against being nasty and unpleasant, as long as it doesn't infringe upon the freedom and rights of others.

But in any case 'racism' is a red herring in this case. The real question is how far we can go in a free society, celebrating history and tradition, expressing our views, and whether we should stop just because people are (justifiably) offended: now that's the important debate. I do think it's kind and considerate not to create an environment which will be seen as hostile by others for whom it brings back bad memories, and I do think we should all be nice to each other as far as possible. But I do not agree with flaming others and calling them 'racist' just because they celebrate certain historical traditions.

[minor_t]

In the south, there is an upcoming civil war battle re-enactment, and the mayor of the nearby town has asked re-enactors to eschew the use of guns and the Confederate battle flag.  The mayor and your other colleague are taking things too far.  I don't know if your colleague is a racist, but I do think he's a blockhead if he didn't realize that the flag would irritate and possibly alarm some people.  And I think the mayor's a blockhead, too.  

mt

[busyslinky]

Yes, your colleague with the confederate flag is making a racist comment, not just insensitive, but racist. Should you do something about it? That's up to you.

[scientiffikk]

Does the history prof specialize in civil war era?  How is this flag displayed, and does it have any relevance to the profs research or teaching?  Are there any Union relics or displays?  These are all factors, just to name a few.

It's not necessarily racist or even insensitive, but it depends on the context.  Acknowledging that part of US history is not racist, but celebrating it probably is. 

Most displays of the confederate flag are considered to be insensitive at best currently, but without seeing it I can't form an opinion.

[gennimom]

The Stars and Bars are a part of history, period. Recently, Mississippi voted to keep the historical flag. For those of you who may think the "white majority" did this, need to check our population statistics. The only way this could have passed was if the blacks voted for this too. There were several counties that are more than 98% black that overwhelmingly voted to keep the flag.
The majority of the people who wanted to change the flag were from outside of Mississippi originally and thought they should be able to dictate what parts of our history the natives should be proud of. This country's new attempts to not offend anyone and to suppress any references to a portion of history that may offend someone only guarantees that we will be doomed to repeat it. Just because the Stars and Bars was the Confederate Battle Flag and has been currently been usurped by the radical white supremacists does not mean that it should be eradicated from all mention in current society. The best way to stop the usurpation of our history by the radical element on both sides of the issues is to make them mainstream, not to try to eradicate them. We must learn to embrace and learn from the mistakes of our forefathers or our country will tear itself apart.

[fiona]

It's insensitive to display a Confederate flag, just as it's insensitive to display a Nazi flag.

Yes, there will be those who claim the Nazis were in favor of motherhood, and whatever other good things (I don't know of any) that they may have favored.

But to put up either flag is to show that you're an insensitive blockhead, and anyone who's a teacher should know better. It's a hostile environment without a doubt.

[larryc]

The stars and bars stands for white supremacy.  It did in 1861 and it does now.  A historian especially should know that.  And Robert E. Lee supported disenfranchising blacks after the war. The Confederate flag is to southern heritage as the swastika is to German heritage--a ugly reminder of the very worst the society was capable of.

[kaysixteen]

Academics are supposed to stand for freedom of speech.  We all know, of course, that this is a lie.  But it would probably be better not to demonstrate that lie so openly.

[prytania3]

IMHO, the offended colleague is a racist.

"You're just siding with him because he's one of your people,"

'Nuff said on that point.

IMHO, she is also a nutball. The history prof has 4 pictures of historical figures with their respective flags. Okay, so one has a Confederate flag--big deal. This isn't racist; this is acknowledging history. If you go to Appomatox, you will also find Confederate flags. Is that promoting racism? No, it's preserving history, which begs the question, is history offensive? Well, yes, it probably is. The history of America is exploitive, aggressive, and very violent (hmm, not sure much has changed). If people want to pretend it happened some other way, though, they're being ridiculous.

Everyone needs to read Richard Rodriguez, Conversations with my Mexican Father.

Solution: Drown her.

[prytania3]

It's insensitive to display a Confederate flag, just as it's insensitive to display a Nazi flag.

Yes, there will be those who claim the Nazis were in favor of motherhood, and whatever other good things (I don't know of any) that they may have favored.

But to put up either flag is to show that you're an insensitive blockhead, and anyone who's a teacher should know better. It's a hostile environment without a doubt.

Fiona, I love you to death, but I have to disagree. The guy isn't flying the Confederate flag. It's in a picture. And if a history professor had 4 pictures of World War II figures, the obvious choices would be Roosevelt, Churchill, Stalin, and Hitler because like it or not, they were the 4 big players.

[menotti]

This country's new attempts to not offend anyone and to suppress any references to a portion of history that may offend someone only guarantees that we will be doomed to repeat it. Just because the Stars and Bars was the Confederate Battle Flag and has been currently been usurped by the radical white supremacists does not mean that it should be eradicated from all mention in current society. The best way to stop the usurpation of our history by the radical element on both sides of the issues is to make them mainstream, not to try to eradicate them. We must learn to embrace and learn from the mistakes of our forefathers or our country will tear itself apart.

a) I would say it is probably not appropriate for the university to tell a professor what to put on his wall

b) No one is suggesting that all references to this period in history be suppressed.  The question is, should a bad part of our heritage be celebrated?  Honoring the confederacy, which it could be argued one implicitly does by putting a confederate flag on the wall, does not indicate that we have "embraced and learned from the mistakes of our forefathers"

c) the swastika is an ancient sun symbol.  Would you wear it proudly, refusing to allow it to be usurped by Nazis?

[prytania3]

The question is, should a bad part of our heritage be celebrated?

ROTFLMAO.

First, acknowledgment is different than celebration.

Second, even if it weren't different,what does that leave us with, historically speaking? Just what good parts should we keep? Killing Indians? Exploiting child labor? Stealing the Southwest from Mexico? Burning witches at Salem?

We are the strongest nation in the world, and we got that way how. By being nice? I don't think so. America is not innocent. America was never innocent--what we did have were some pretty great ideas about liberty and freedom, a lot of which came by way of the French. Of course, now those pretty great ideas are getting voted out, too.

[bluelaser]

Burning witches at Salem?

FYI, no witches (or persons accused of being witches) were burned at the stake in Salem -- most were hanged or died in prison.

Perhaps you are thinking of Joan of Arc -- she was burned at the stake -- but in France.

[prytania3]

FYI, no witches (or persons accused of being witches) were burned at the stake in Salem -- most were hanged or died in prison

Well, if they were only hanged, no biggie.