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[buttercup5]

This is re-posted from Job-Seeking Experiences.  The potentially high-handed tone is more about my frustration with my career and inscrutable search committees.  I am not a troll.  Please help me out here!  I wouldn't even be interested in this if I didn't truly care about students.
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I'm a regular but created this name for about the kind of question I'm going to ask here.  Recognizing that the third time is not the charm for everyone with TT job searches, I am casting a wider net this year.

One area I'm interested in, since I'm rather "institutionalized" (as Morgan Freeman says in The Shawshank Redemption) to higher ed life, is academic advising positions. 

Many of these job ads go on about very specific Masters Degrees and other qualifications.  None of these qualifications seem to have the remotest connection to the only thing I've EVER seen ANY academic advisors doing--sitting in a room, with lists of courses and transfer materials, chatting with students about their majors and plans and helping them find the right information and navigate the process. 

I can sit in a room, read information, and be helpful.  I could do that when I was in high school. 

What else is it that academic advisors do that is apparently kept entirely secret from faculty?!?!?

Thanks.

[zharkov]

Where I work, faculty do the standard academic advising, which is mostly helping students in course scheduling and registration.  The "academic adviser" is like a high school guidance counselor to some degree, and straddles helping students academically and intra/inter-personally.  (I was going to say psychologically, but there are separate psychological counselling services for that.)

[voxprincipalis]

I did a little web browsing and came up with a site that may be useful to you: NACADA, which is the National Academic Advising Association. Reading through their conference program and browsing back issues of their newsletter is illuminating because it lets you see what *they* think is important. From my brief read, it seems that the general m.o. of the advising set is to almost forget about the word "academic" in their title -- in terms of how they interact and reach out to students, they are much more closely affiliated with residence life or student affairs.

Anyway, the website is:
http://www.nacada.ksu.edu
... and the newsletters can be found at:
http://www.nacada.ksu.edu/AAT/archives.htm

VP

[j_source]

Some schools have faculty do most student advising.  Not a bad plan unless the faculty member is clueless, disinterested,  absent, or negligent.  in departments with lots of majors, it's impossible for the faculty to advise all of them so they get farmed out to other departments who often know nothing about the student's major.

Some schools have professional advisors.  They are usually experts in transfering credit, working out academic plans and helping the student both choose appropriate courses and make sure major, minor, and degree requirements are met.  Their drawback is that they aren't as knowledgeable about the actual jobs in various fields. Since they're advising students in all majors they can tell you what courses you need for an accounting major but not necessarily what being an accountant is like. 

I've worked with both systems and lean toward the professional advisor over the faculty.  I've seen badly charted college careers because the faculty member was up to speed with the advisees, for whatever reason.  A good faculty advisor is terrific but some resent the time taken away from their other work.  Just my $.02

[minor_t]

If the position is in a public university, an MA or MS may be required in order to get the position "upgraded" to a level with a reasonable salary. 
Advisors do indeed spend time going over course lists and transcripts but they can also represent the U at career fairs, recruitment events, and community events.  They can make sure the web site is up to date and consistent with current policy and practice, monitor admissions, oversee retention, and guide students through the grade appeal process.  Our faculty are responsible for academic advising, but our advisement coordinator is one of the busiest people around.
mt

[appadv]

I am an advising administrator (director) at a mid size school.  I understand the question posed, but do believe that full-time (FT) academic advisors can strengthen the academic environment on a college campus.

Advisors should be much more than course schedulers.  As you state correctly anybody can do that.  It should not require a Master's degree to schedule classes and chat-up students.

The real role of the FT academic advisor (it is not a good idea to refer to these positions as professional advisors, it seems to insinuate that faculty are unprofessional advisors) on campus is to set-up the faculty for success.  Make sure that the resources are available and that the faculty advisors understand how to use them.  The full time advisor also does a lot of the dirty work that faculty members are typically not interested in...i.e., gen. ed., summer school advising, etc.  Another important role for the FT advisor is the organization and support of advising when faculty are not available.  If you have not noticed it is difficult for students to get in contact with their advisor in the summer months.  The FT advisor is available from 8-5 everyday.  They serve as a triage unit and can answer questions, refer students, and most importantly kick students back to their faculty advisors.
   In an ideal environment we are here to play the background music while the faculty advisors enjoy the solo.

[sibyl]

Buttercup,

As someone who has had both advising and faculty positions, I think the most profound difference is that faculty have to specialize and advisers have to be generalists.  Faculty do advise students, but it's in highly specialized ways: directing dissertations or senior theses, helping students follow specific career paths.  In those situations, students know what they want, and they turn to the faculty to ask how they get there.  Advisers need the ability to help students figure out what they want and the flexibility to deal with total reversals.  ("I know I started out as pre-med, but now I want to be a political scientist with a secondary teaching certification.  How do I do that?")  This is true even if you are, for instance, department advisor for the biology department at Enormous State University, because you'll deal with pre-meds, teachers, scientific illustrators, veterinarians, nurses, poker players, and people who really don't know what they want except that Mom thinks I should be a doctor.

What you'll have to do is to convey to employers that you are truly interested in advising in all its dimensions and with all of its students, and not that you are a dissatisfied Ph.D. who's just looking for a resting place in a job that seems easy.  (That's the bad spin I've put on your "high-handed" initial post.)  Explore NACADA and the advising websites at some high-quality schools to get a sense for what those schools want to deliver to their students.  Then figure out what in your experience translates to these jobs.

[dale1]

I must agree with Sibyl.

Academic advising at the entry level/front line is not about filling out paperwork or about matching students with classes that fit their 11 am - 2 pm class-taking window.

Academic Advising is about development of the student.  As a front line, entry level advisor (MS required for this job), I:

Interacted with students 1-1 in private advising sessions, usually lasting 20-30 minutes each.  I could do 12 to 15 of these a day.  Days like these are very tiring because you have to be flexible and move quickly from one student and one issue to the next.  It doesn't give you much time to think about other issues.

Work with students in learning communities.  Often have 4-5 of them in the fall, 1-2 in the spring term, with 30 students each.  Responsible for this as a case load and the a walk-in load which varies per day.  Our average "case load" when you divide students by FTE advisors was about 500.  No one can do quality advising for 500 students, it's impossible.  Teach modules of learning community as assigned.

Marketed our services to prospective and current students.

Liaison to an academic school and work with their representative on advising issues.

Serve on multiple unit-level committees. 

Prepared and presented at regional conferences, represented the unit at recruiting events on campus.

It's not an easy job, and it's not just about filling in boxes and making sure requirements are completed.  It's about developing the student and helping that student understand what college is about, how to use the experience as a learning experience, not a hoop-jumping experience.  Advising hits counseling and is often the front line for problems the student is facing.

Advisors are often the front line for retention, and spend a lot of time selling the institution and how it can meet the needs of students.

Also, the hours can be long and involve evenings and weekends.  We also work 40+ hours per week for the entire year.  No summers off (in fact, summers are quite busy due to orientation for new students).

Let me know if you want to know more.  It's a great job and very rewarding, but also exhausting mentally and physically, and it's easy to let the barriers between work and life get very low.

[xystuw]

Academic advising grew out of two things: faculty jettisoning their relationships with students in favor of research (with some justification) and the recognition by most institutions that students need help getting through college. I agree with an earlier poster that faculty advising is great as far as it goes, but for the vast majority of students, it doesn't go very far (assuming it even gets started).

As an academic adviser at a large university, I both encourage the use of "professional" adviser (there are those of us who are interested not just in the "how" of advising but also the "why") and feel strongly that we play a unique role in higher education. No one else on campus is focused on the complete learning and education of an individual student besides that student - and that student's academic adviser.

I often describe academic advisers as the keepers and the university's mission. Upper administration may set the policy and the tone of education at the university but we are the only ones who actually work with a student to ensure that they are learning what the university claims to be teaching.

[artsearch]

Hi Dale!
(I hope the OP doesn't mind a tiny bit of a hijack here-he/she knows I'm a kindred spirit with a similar mission)

You said:
"Academic advising at the entry level/front line is not about filling out paperwork or about matching students with classes that fit their 11 am - 2 pm class-taking window."
***
Even so, I am finding in my advisor interviewing sessions that the committees are VERY squeamish about how a PhD will handle the more "repetitive" aspects of the job. They fear I won't stick around because of the drudgery aspects.

Also, the university where I am interviewing would have a similar case load at 450-500 students per advisor. As you point out, it's very tough to do quality advising given that condition. So, how do YOU deal with that? I'm thinking you must have found a way to get beyond the demoralization that this frustrating overload entails.

BTW, I was twice in the "final 4" for advising jobs during the summer, and I appear to be inching closer. Thank you for your continued contributions; I always find your remarks insightful and realistic.

[dale1]

Artsearch,

I'm very pleased to hear that you are coming closer on your advisor job search.  In some respects it is about how many hooks you have in the stream, regardless of your qualifications.

Regarding the repetitive aspects of the position, I think it comes down to two things:

1 - a lot of documentation is involved, and this can be tedious
2 - it's repetitive to say the same things over and over

First, if you are a detail-oriented person, I think this is a good thing to talk about and use an example to illustrate the point.  If there's a project you worked on that required this skills, highlight that.  The repetitiveness comes from having to document your discussions with students.  My (now former) workplace has web-based tools for this now in its student info. system, so it's much less hand-writing than it was before.

Second, you do tend to say the same things over and over.  What I advise is to cover the topics that are important in a way that makes sense to the student.  This will be different from person to person, and hopefully will make it a bit less repetitive.  Always, always make it about what the student is doing, her/his journey, not about filling out little check boxes.  Education is not about completing 124-140 credit hours.

If you can talk about personalizing the advising session for each student and try to give an example of how you would do that (talk about the student's interests, why they are in school, what they hope to gain), this would be most helpful and would, I think, go some way toward eliminating the concern that the position is drudgery.

If you have a case load like you mention, I believe it is actually impossible to serve them all to the extent they need, especially if they are first and second-year students.  What I suggest is a compromise, what I call a triage approach.

For students that you are confident they will be successful, work with them initially and help them move forward with faculty advisors or other personnel on campus.  If you are working with 1-2nd year students, you'll never see them graduate, anyway.  You can only help them so much, and soon they will be beyond your scope, so help them prepare for faculty and staff interactions at a higher level.

For middle-of-the-road students, work with them to clarify their goals and have a vision for them.  Help them see college as not a check-box exercise or some piece of paper they need to get a job, but as an opportunity to grow, explore, and challenge themselves (the students above are already challenging themselves, these are high flyers).  Encourage them to take good risks and make connections with faculty in their disciplines.

For lower-ability or "at-risk" students:  You may feel like you're handholding them.  These students need to know that there is a caring staff member available to assist them.  I've seen many students come back and say "thank you" for helping during their first semester, and it's a year or two later and they are still in school.  Still being in school is a victory for these students.  It's a cherry on their sundae to actually be in college.  We have to support these students more than the above because they need it.  Once they have the hang of college and are stable (mostly this is a financial issue for a lot of them, making it difficult to go to school and have to work 40+ hours/week).  I am convinced that if low-income students were fully funded, their graduation rates would skyrocket. 

Anyway, this is a bit of a long post because the answer is there are no easy answers, and everyone cannot get the same amount of time and attention from you.

I also worked at home on nights and weekends, answering e-mail and planning for my work during the week.  My wife doesn't understand that my job required about 50+ hours each week in order to ensure that I was doing the minimum, above.

Eventually, I learned that our population would not support great success, and had to move on to a better, higher-paying job in the field.

You probably don't want to be a FT advisor for the rest of your days, though if you do, you'll likely be a great one if you keep your eye on what's important.

[artsearch]

Dale,

I'm printing both your info-filled posts--thank you!

Yes, I am the type who actually makes lists so that I can then check off the boxes, so you could say I'm detail-minded. I will be sure to emphasize it.

I did speak in my interviewing about uniqueness of each student making the job interesting, so it sounds like we are thinking similarly.

I taught for over a decade at a SLAC, and I did have "issues" with all the handholding of students (all of them--not just the at-risk) that seemed to be expected of faculty there, but the difference is that in THIS job advising and all that comes with it would be my sole occupation, not an also-ran as it necessarily was  before. This particular university to which I am applying auto- admits a certain percentage of students who are at the top of their class, regardless of board scores or type of high school, and I do believe that, if they get in, they should be able to get the services they need.

I will keep in mind what you say about the long hours!

All the best to you in your new position!!

[dale1]

Artsearch,

Thanks for your kind message.

I believe that Advising is a great job not only because of its intrinsic benefits (positive feeling of job well done, etc), but because it exposes you to the university and its programs that is deeper than other positions (especially admissions).  So when you've done 2 years at the advising job, you're well positioned to move into advanced roles in student services and advising.  I started looking for another job after about 8 months because I was woefully underpaid as compared to other staff on campus who did less and got paid 10% more to start for a job with the same title and same pay grade. 

It's a job for someone who wants to move up in administration (with a PhD this should be easier for you) and for someone who wants to be on the front line dealing with students daily.

As an advisor your job is essentially retention by means of appropriate advising and guidance.  It's the primary concern, not an "also ran" as you mentioned. 

Great luck to you, Artsearch, I am confident you'll land a position that you can be happy with. 

[artsearch]

"...it exposes you to the university and its programs that is deeper than other positions (especially admissions).  So when you've done 2 years at the advising job, you're well positioned to move into advanced roles in student services and advising"
***
Thank you for pointing this out--for this might be crucial when I get asked the question, "why would an ex-prof want an entry-level staff position?" I answered this by saying that one learns the most at entry level, and for someone who had not done full time advising, this was the appropriate place I would expect to start. But I can add that I am interested in learning about a varied cross-section of university programs. If they are thinking the way you are (that I might use the job as a future springboard within the university), perhaps they are more likely to take the plunge and hire a PhD.

It absolutely IS a student retention job, and, given the current national interest in that topic as handed down by Margaret Spellings and others, it would be smart for me to work that in somewhere too.

Thanks again!

[assiniboia]

Pardon repetitions...  Our advising staff are responsible for ensuring that students navigate their way through some fairly complicated programs.  They can help students plot (tentative) timetables two or three semesters in advance.  If a student is transferring in credit from another institution, advising staff can help fit those courses into our program, and they can help students understand how study elsewhere (junior year abroad) could enrich a program.  They also help determine how elective credit may help students in applying to professional programs.  However, they play a crucial role in much of the tough decision making.  If students cannot get a required course for whatever reason, advising staff will recommend program substitutuons.  If students have a medical or psychological problem, they will make a recommendation to a Dean -- based on "case law" -- as to what remedies are most appropriate.  Essentially, we use advising staff as resource people for everything from curriculum design to timetabling to program management.  We have people with a variety of backgrounds working in this capacity.