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[bibi67]

Hello,

I am about to apply to positions in two universities in Turkey (Fatih in Istanbul and Bilkent in Ankara). The positions seem interesting, but its very hard to tell from the description or the web-site what the job conditions will actually be.

After reading an extremely dismal description of academic jobs in Turkey (and particularly at Fatih) on this website, I was wondering if anyone else could comment on these two universities. Ideally, someone who has worked there (and possibly had a good experience?).

I am thinking of moving to Turkey with my family for a number of years. We are not Turkish but do research on issues related to Islam and the Mediterranean region. We are both in the humanities. Ideally, this would not be a "one-year" thing. Am I being unrealistic?

Thanks a lot

[smithee]

Even though Istanbul is the city to live in Turkey, choose Bilkent. It is one of the top universities in Turkey with a large community of foreign scholars living on or around the campus. And do not forget to ask about on-campus accommodation which is generally provided for foreign scholars free of charge.

[drgazi]

Dear bibi67,
Although I have not worked as an academic in Turkey, I did live for several years (90´s) on the Bilkent campus, where my parents were academics there.  I found the campus life quite hospitable, actually, and knew many foreign professors who had been there many years and were not driven away by the kinds of things mentioned with regards to Fatih.  But again, I did not work there so cannot say for sure. And on the other hand, independent of school, life in Istanbul is MUCH more interesting than life in Ankara!
Hope that makes you feel more comfortable about your application, best of luck!

[abuflletcher]

As others have said, Bilkent has an excellent reputation.  I have, at various points in my career, considered applying for positions in their MATESOL program which is without the premiere MATESOL program in Turkey and attracts a high standard of student.  It is perhaps comparable to the program at the American University of Cairo.

These jobs are not as financially rewarding as professor-rank jobs in the Gulf, but given Turkey's lower cost, might be OK -- particularly so in the case of a single person.  Living there with a family might be a bit tougher but still possible.

[devon]

Dear bibi67,

Again, the academic life in Turkey probably does not exist. Sure, there are people doing research there, but keep in mind the kind of research you're thinking of may not exist.  If you would like more info, I can talk with you privately about this.

[biged]

The academic life in Turkey most certainly DOES exist.  I have visited colleagues over there, interacted with others at international conferences, and read work by still others in reputable journals.  Perhaps the academic life it is not at the level of a top-tier R1 university in North America, but the same can be said for most ofAsia or even Europe, not to mention lower tiered schools in the US.

[nkt777]

It might not be US or EU, but there is academic progress in Turkey. Some people might not like the salaries. But first, lets answer the original question.

If you were to stack a bunch of Fatih Univ.s on top of each other, the choice would still be Bilkent.

Bilkent is obviously a better Institution, everybody in Turkey knows its name, like Harvard or Yale are in US. Its first several years used 75% of the budget Turkey assigned to universities, for its development. I am not saying Fatih U is a horrible place (other users have already done that extensively), maybe it'll improve over the next years, who knows. But I don't like the people behind it, and I wouldn't want to work for them on principle.



As for Ankara vs Istanbul, Ankara wins in my opinion.

Sure, Istanbul has more to see, more to experience, etc. But, it is a disorganized city of 13 million people. Life is more expensive, traffic is catastrophic (especially in bad weather rush hour - once it took me 4 hrs to drive between two locations both in Istanbul), and public transport isn't very good either (I must admit I haven't been there since the subway lines opened).

Ankara is a more stress-free city, with not much traffic (except some important intersections under construction, and there are always a bunch of them). The worst case ever (rush hour, bad weather, road construction, right through the city center) still took me less than an hour to drive. The city is of 4 million, so still big enough to be not as boring as Istanbulers argue. Besides, if you get bored, both Istanbul and Capadoccia are still close enough to drive to for the weekend. And for your kids (and you) Paramount Pictures is going to build a big theme park soon.



As for research funding, a few years ago the powers that be decided to throw lots of money at TUBITAK (Turkey's equivalent of National Science Foundation). TUBITAK and universities are still trying to figure out how to spend this money. I am guessing things will be improving rapidly as the research infrastructure adapts, and as the money trickles down through the burocracy.

Apart from Bilkent, the most respected institutions are Middle East Technical U (Ank) and Bogazici U (Ist). I've heard very positive things about Koc U (Ist) and Gebze Institute of Technology (Ist). Istanbul Technical U is also among the top, but I'm not sure if they take foreign faculty. Turkey's largest portion of technical papers are in medicine, and the top medical school is in Hacettepe U (Ank).



Disclaimer:
I grew up in Ankara, so I might be positively biased towards the city. And I am always negatively biased towards educational institutions founded by over-religious people.


Info:
I'm in MIT (Boston) now, and I'll be taking a faculty position in METU (neighbor and rival to Bilkent) in the spring semester. So if you decide to take the Bilkent job, let me know and I can help out with basic Ankara knowledge.

[jtsmr]

I worked at Fatih University for over 2 years, and I can't recommend that you or anyone else go there, if you're still interested in going. I left the school (I wasn't "ousted" as someone presented on another topic) because the administration then had no problem with my non-conferred Ph.D. This was all spoken upfront to them on day 1; letters from former Chairs were even translated into Turkish for processing. However, for obvious reasons that I won't get into, 2 and a half years later, they changed their minds. On a whim!

If you haven't read any of the posts on the Fatih University topic, I urge you to do so. Coming out of lurk mode, I recommend that you read what the devons and nkt777 have written and  pay close attention to what's being asserted.  I told my situation to 100s of others. It is still in investigation, but I'll reveal what I can in response to your question. Because if anybody had any sense of ethics or integrity, they would do so. There's so much that is wrong with this university that it boggles the mind.

If, for example, you consider on the Fatih topic what Fatih University is being accused of in terms of infractions and odd behavior committed by this school, the answer to each of those points is a resounding "yes!"

I answered an ad in 2003 for a "tenure-track position in rhetoric."  I arrived in the Spring of the following year and, it is true, the Dean announces to the current professors that December that tenure doesn't exist. Not only that, but there's no comprehensive rhetoric program, either.  I have no idea why the non-Turkish teachers currently there who were there with me at that time will not come out and indicate these facts on this forum instead of asking people to privately write them. Speaking out could help a lot of people. Yet, they insist on praising the school for some reasons, especially those profs I know who were strongly vociferous in damning it.  I found many, in fact, of the foreign professors I've worked with, and this is my experience, to be Turkophobic and Afrophobic. Whereas Turks in Turkey proper I found to be similar in ways to African Americans, like brothers.

When I began working at Fatih University, I was asked often with ferocious rapdity "Are you married?" "Are you Muslim?" "Are you Muslim?" "Are you married?" for about a week. Thank god I'm a non-religious, gay, African American who was raised to be tolerant! Otherwise, what's the point? I was summarily given a book on the religious movement that the school is part of. (One of the authors, incidentally, of this book has since written me to tell me he wasn't surprised by what happened to me at Fatih University. I won't tell you what he said; but he condemned the university, pretty much.)  Odd, I thought.  But I soon learned what was happening, but ignored most of it. When you have a school that gives you a different answer to the same question every hour on the hour and when there are students who not-so-secretly profess their brand of Islam on campus, and an English Language and Literature department that appoints as Chair a young, recent graduate Quebecois with no university teaching experience and no record of publications, then, Whitney Houston, we have a problem.  And ignoring it will not make it go away.

You would be wasting your time if you go to Fatih University. Please know that if I could help you in your academic career in any way. What has always interested me while being there is not why people come, but why do they stay at Fatih University.  It's not an R1 institution; most of the noted research comes out of the Science departments and the students are super lazy!! If you go to Turkey anywhere, make sure you focus on publishing in top-tier ranking journals of your field and not some indexed, irrelevant journal (for the sake of it) because if you intend to come back to America or Europe, universities will be looking at what you've published and where!. And if they don't recognize the journal, you haven't published at all. I'm speaking in terms of tenure tracking.

Try another university like Bilkent, Koc, Bospohorous, as recommended by the poster nkt777, devon and others and not Fatih University. If you want to go to the Harvard or Yale of Turkey, try Bilkent or some of the aforementioned. Fatih is neither Yale, Harvard or a Dartmouth equivalent. More like an Oral Robert's University, emphasis on the Oral Robert's brand of theology.

 It's good to see someone else offering you another view, if it's not too late for you.

[moderator]

I've deleted some posts because they contained personal attacks and off-topic material. Let's try to be civil and stick to the subject. Thanks.

Moderator