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[supernumerary]

Japanese in South Africa were called "honorary whites" under apartheid. Thus, "white" is a term of power, or of status, and not a 'racial' category. (And everyone knows that 'race' is not a biological phenomenon, but socially constructed...ie, I know West Indians who grew up there and never were aware of being "black". Only when they came to North America did they become "black".

To add to this, it was not uncommon for black Americans to be considered white in South Africa if they acted in ways associated with being white, i.e. having money, education, white friends and the American accent - being American basically made them 'white'. A black friend who went there in 1999 told me she was often asked 'are you black?' - you've got to see her to appreciate just how funny it was for her to be asked this.

[helpful]

Person of color does not refer to "race". As I said, "race" is not a biological category, it is socially constructed. So African Americans are not a "race" either! There are no "races".

[prytania3]

As I said, "race" is not a biological category, it is socially constructed. So African Americans are not a "race" either! There are no "races".

I know the science behind your statement, but I don't agree with it. I think it is politically correct interpretation of DNA data and many forensic anthropologists would agree with me since they can determine race from skeletons. Keep in mind: a biological category is a social construct as well, and just because there isn't a biological category for race doesn't necessarily mean race doesn't exist--it may very well mean the biological category for race doesn't exist.

It's race denial. And if you deny race, you deny racism.

[helpful]

As I said, "race" is not a biological category, it is socially constructed. So African Americans are not a "race" either! There are no "races".

I know the science behind your statement, but I don't agree with it. I think it is politically correct interpretation of DNA data and many forensic anthropologists would agree with me since they can determine race from skeletons. Keep in mind: a biological category is a social construct as well, and just because there isn't a biological category for race doesn't necessarily mean race doesn't exist--it may very well mean the biological category for race doesn't exist.

It's race denial. And if you deny race, you deny racism.

Sorry, you are wrong! Race may not exist as a biological category, but racism does, because racism is how certain groups exert power over others, partly due to the misapprehension that "race" exists.

This argument has nothing to do with what you call "political correctness". Haven't you ever read the study done of Brazilians, where people who were "white" had more African blood or DNA than people who were "black"?

"Political correctness" is simply a term used to deny that racism exists.

[prytania3]

I'm wrong??? There's a raging debate on this subject or haven't you heard?

[helpful]

I think the Brazilian study has put an answer to the debate...or can you illuminate me on any critiques of that study?

[prytania3]

No, I don't think the Brazilian study has put an end to the argument at all. It's still based on the interpretation of DNA, and we still have a LONG way to go with interpreting DNA. Forensic people determine people's race on decomposed body  by using several methods.

[prytania3]

I meant decomposed bodies.

*sigh* There is no longer a pedant to keep me honest.

[helpful]

So, what "race" is Tiger Woods? What "race" is Vijay Singh?

[aandsdean]

Tiger is Cablinasian, as he said himself.  Vijay Singh is an Indian, despite being from Fiji.  (Indian is an ethnicity, not a race, but there you go.)

[adhoc]

Indians are Caucasian.

[aandsdean]

Uh, I know...

[larryc]

Indians are Caucasian.

Ward Churchill, for instance.

[helpful]

People from Southern India are definitely not of Aryan stalk, those in parts of the north are.

And "Caucasian" is a term for a physiological quality. It derives from the mistaken impression that all "whites" come from the Caucusus Mountains. I always correct my students about their use of the term because they use it without knowing its history

"The concept of a "Caucasian race" or Varietas Caucasia was first proposed under those names by the German scientist Johann Friedrich Blumenbach (1752-1840). His studies based the classification of the Caucasian race primarily on skull features, which Blumenbach claimed were optimized by the Armenians and Georgians, a people living in the Southern Caucasus."
(wikipedia)

As for Vijay, he is a Fijian of Indian background .

As for Tiger, I wonder what his children will be? (since he is of mixed heritage -- and both his mother and father are of mixed heritage; and then he is married to a blonde swede, hmmmmm!). I wonder if prytania 3 (is this the same person as prytania on the old fora?) would call this a "race". Absurd! (with so many people with 'mixed" parentage, the concept of "race" is disappearing. Even though racism isn't.

[prytania3]

As for Tiger, I wonder what his children will be? (since he is of mixed heritage -- and both his mother and father are of mixed heritage; and then he is married to a blonde swede, hmmmmm!). I wonder if prytania 3 (is this the same person as prytania on the old fora?) would call this a "race". Absurd! (with so many people with 'mixed" parentage, the concept of "race" is disappearing. Even though racism isn't.

Of course, it's the same Prytania. Tiger's kids will be mixed, and the more people intermarry the less race will come into play because everyone will start looking more alike (read Richard Rodriguez's book
Brown, but this "scientific fluff" of race not being biological is absurd. If it weren't biological, then two black parents could easily have an Eskimo baby, and two white parents could have a Chinese baby, and two Chinese parents could have a black baby. Just because scientists can't figure out how to crack the genetic codes for race does not mean race is not a biological reality.It is not a social construct that Chinese people have Chinese babies.

Sometimes scientists like to complicate what they can't figure out. Remember the O rings on the space shuttle were defective? Scientists (I use the term broadly) were coming up with all sorts of mathematical explanations of why the O rings didn't work on the shuttle. Then one guy took an O ring, stuck it in a glass of ice water and it started cracking and becoming defective, and he said, "Hey guys, I think I found the problem. O rings can't stand extreme cold?"