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[helpful]

Geography is really important.

Two words to add to your consideration:  Tuition Remission.  If the new place offers tuition remission either there (if it's THAT prestigious, this may be a problem because your children may not be able to get in) or through a consortium (much better deal), that could be very important.  Think about 4 years x 2 children x $25,000 in today's dollars and suddenly that big raise looks even bigger.

Huh? There are many universities that charge only 5 K for tuition! I guess 25 K refers to private universities. The OP never said that the university in Boston was private or public!

[aandsdean]

Uh, helpful, what really prestigious university in Boston is public?

[helpful]

you tell me. I am not from Boston!

[aandsdean]

There isn't one....That's how you know it's a private the OP is talking about.

UMass Boston isn't Harvard, MIT, BC, BU, Wheaton (the non-evangelical one), etc.

[econ_anon]

My parents did do the commute (only half a country away, but distances were bigger back then) off-and-on through my mom's academic life and they still seem to be happily married.  I don't think we suffered terribly from it.  Of course, they made the decisions jointly and were on the same page at each point, which is very important.  My father also spent some miserable time as a stay-at-home dad, which didn't work so well because he is not a big fan of the midwest and, for (European Depression baby) cultural reasons, doesn't believe that men should clean, for example (though cooking is ok).  Your mileage may vary.

Boston is definitely not for everyone... my new school (which is very much the opposite of Cambridge/Boston in many ways) is full of people who suffered living in the Boston area for graduate school (including my husband).  For me it was a pretty big culture shock, even though I have had no problem living any any other region of the country (West, South/Southeast, Southwest, or Midwest)... it took me 5 years to really adjust.  I would not force that move on anyone who didn't want to make it.  (Some people love it, and that's great, otherwise everyone would live in California and it would sink into the ocean.)

[flagman]

Thanks everyone for the input. We're pretty much ruling out the long-distance thing. It's just not afforable, and as has been pointed out, probably not survivable (at least for us). We will be visiting this week, and maybe that will firm up our decision.

We would both choose the West over the East, and I grew up and got my BA in New England. However, this is familiar territory for us. Recently, we made the decision to stay at a regional western university to work on soft money rather than take a hard money position at an Ivy, because we loved where we lived. Well, one year later, with the grant money running out, and nothing concrete having materialized locally, we had to scramble like crazy for employment. The end result was a move, anyway. So, while the issue of losing my job isn't so immediate, the struggle of supporting a family on 40K is constant.

[spork]

Something that you've probably already discussed -- whether household finances would improve if mom went back to work in 4-6 years when the kids are older.  My mom went back to work when I was 13, and from then on I had to do my own laundry and make my own breakfast, which turned out to be good for me later in life.  On the other hand, I was in a very rural area, and it was safe for me to come home to an unlocked house and be there by myself for 3 hours until my parents came home.  This may or may not describe your current situation.

I would compare your salary in Boston to the monthly mortgage payment for a house an hour from the city along an MBTA rail line, because that's probably the closest to work you'll be able to get.  This will give you a rough idea of whether the pay increase will be eaten up by increased cost of living.  Within Boston is probably either too expensive or too bad a neighborhood for your tastes.

My brother has a total commute to Boston of about an hour (10 minute drive to station, the rest by rail), and he could not afford to buy a house now in the town he moved into six years ago.  Three bedrooms are going for more than $400K.

[miss_priss]

Thanks everyone for the input. We're pretty much ruling out the long-distance thing. It's just not afforable, and as has been pointed out, probably not survivable (at least for us). We will be visiting this week, and maybe that will firm up our decision.

We would both choose the West over the East, and I grew up and got my BA in New England. However, this is familiar territory for us. Recently, we made the decision to stay at a regional western university to work on soft money rather than take a hard money position at an Ivy, because we loved where we lived. Well, one year later, with the grant money running out, and nothing concrete having materialized locally, we had to scramble like crazy for employment. The end result was a move, anyway. So, while the issue of losing my job isn't so immediate, the struggle of supporting a family on 40K is constant.

For what it's worth, I don't think you sounded dictatorial or cold, at all. There's nothing wrong with having ambition and especially (now that we know more about your situation) wanting to have a stable job for your family. I have worked on soft money and it is a very scary position to be in. Plus, you're right. $40,000 isn't a lot to raise a family on.

I think the idea about going for a weekend to boston is a great one. Surely your wife cannot imagine living there when she hasn't spend time there (ever, or at least in a very long time, I'm guessing). Perhaps you can do a little research about areas of the city or outside the city you and she could live in, price properties, pull up some listings for her to look at. Do the same for schools. And find opportunities for her in the city--book clubs, shops, theatre, whatever she likes. But then present it to her as options, not as things you've already picked out and made decisions on, and in such a way that you are showing her that you care about her life and understand the impact the move would make.

It is possible that you and your wife are not communicating effectively (I'm not making judgments; I obviously don't know, at all). Try communicating with your wife in a different way than usual. For instance, write a letter to your wife talking about your ambitions and your fears, both for yourself and for your wife and children. Or sit down with your wife and make a two-column pro's and con's sheet that you work on together.

These are just some suggestions. Take or leave as you see fit.

Good luck to you and your family.

[flagman]

Thank you. That was a nice reply. I was actually just about to do what you said, sit down and write a letter discussing the advantages for all of us, not just me. I write more clearly than I speak, particularly when emotions are running hot and heavy.

FWIW, my current situation is hard money, just not a lot of it. In a way that's hard to explain concisely, my current position jeopardizes my ability to take non-academic jobs by diminishing my technology skill-set, which if we prioritize place over job has to be part of the equation. Finally, at the (probably imagined) risk of revealing too much and having the offer rescinded (which would be a good thing, as far as my wife is concerned!), the job is at Harvard. So, there's that ego bugaboo in the equation, but it's more than just ego, but very real advantages from working there that could pay enormous benefits down the road. I believe these benefits aren't just for me, but for her and OUR children down the road.

Thanks again for your thoughts.

[grace]

For what it's worth, the Boston metro area is a great place to raise children.  Each town is very community oriented, and it's easy for moms and dads to get plugged into the local network.  I've had friends with kids who lived in the Boston area and then had to move away (some to the West coast), and they lament the loss of this strong network.  When you make a visit, be sure to get info on family associations from a local real estate agent.

good luck with the decision!

[atalanta]

This conundrum is a toughie! I like miss_priss's comments.

Here are my two cents. Caveat: I hate it when my posts sound like "Here's what you should do..." since obviously I don't know everything and I'm not the one making the decision. So, please accept my remarks in the spirit of "what I would consider if I were in your position."

First, if your wife ultimately says no, you don't go. And you accept that it was a joint decision, and harbor no (well, very little anyway) resentment.

Having said that, I think your wife should agree to the move! It's understandable that she is tired of moving, but it sounds like both of you want to end up someplace else eventually. Well, your current dead end job (sorry) is not going to lead to the perfect job in the perfect place. The job in Boston may allow you to write your own ticket a few years down the road.

If you take the job, you have a very good chance of being settled in the perfect job/place by the time your kids are in middle school. If you don't take the job, you might get stuck where you are (or worse).

She should keep in mind that this career move is not "all about you". Since she is a stay-at-home mom, the upward trajectory of your career represents HER future too, and that of your children.

Like miss_priss said, try new ways to convince her! If there is some approach you've used in the past that your wife considers "dicatatorial", abandon it for a while. Read those books about negotiation that others have suggested. What does she like to do, want to do, dream of doing? (volunteering? working? writing? music? evening classes? school involvement? marathons?) Try to convince her that you are committed to making sure that she has an opportunity to follow up on some of her dreams, too, in Boston.

Best of luck to you Flagman. I really hope you will find time to keep us updated and let us know how it all turns out!

[venerablefemme]

This sounds like "Let's Manipulate Wifey" Time.

[spork]

Isn't that what spouses are for?  "Marriage is like a coffin, and each child is another nail" -- Homer Simpson :)

[flagman]

Atalanta,

Thanks for your perspective. My last, best attempt to convince her that it's a good move for all of us does revolve around her plans. She wants to pursue a degree in the medical field, and has narrowed it down to pharmacy, vet school, or optometry, with some other more focused programs also part of the mix. Apart from how competitive and intense these programs are, only one of these can be pursued in its entirety at our current location. So, a move is inevitable. All of these programs are available in Boston. I also question whether place will really matter all that much if you're in pharmacy or optometry - your life will be school and home, and whether you're in Boston or Boise probably won't matter.

Oh, well. Tomorrow we go check things out. I'm hoping for a miracle! I'll post how things work out. Thanks again for all the input.

[econ_anon]

If she chooses Vet School... Tufts is really really expensive.  Staying in a state with a public state vet school could save you tens of thousands of dollars (though would also be more difficult to get into).  Not that that outweighs your salary differences, but it is something to include in the cold money calculation.