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[litic]

Good afternoon to everyone!

I am currently stationed in Japan with the Marine Corps and I see that it is still early in the morning for you in the states.  I am currently finishing my bachelor's degree and my last year of active service.  I am stoked to be getting ready for graduate school but I am having trouble determining what is going to be my best course of action.  My end goal is teaching English and literature at the college level (I know, a redundant bit of information for this website) and I am finding it difficult to determine what is going to be my best course of action.  Should I get an MFA in creative writing and then a PhD in general English?  I would like to be able to deal with ESL students at the college level as well.  Perhaps an Asian Studies MA and then a PhD...Comparative Literature is also an avenue...basically I would love to know some opinions on what would best serve my teaching career.  I am intrigued by all the topics mentioned and that is making my decision even more difficult.  Thank you ahead of time for all of your time on my behalf.

Respectfully,
Shana D.

[winnie]

The first thing, honestly, is to be aware of the odds. If you get into grad school in English, that's no guarantee of a teaching job. Fewer than half the people who complete their exams ever finish their dissertations, and of those, only 40% will ever get a tenure-track job.

So, assuming you get into grad school, the odds of getting a Ph. D. and getting a tenure track job are about 20%.

There are a lot of threads about this. I suggest using the search function and reading them, as well as job market articles on this site.

[litic]

Thank you for your insights.  I will definitely take your advice.  I do understand that getting a teaching position is very difficult, and I am very determined.  Boot Camp was a challenge and I enjoyed every minute of those three months and I am looking forward to this challenge as well.  I am starting later than most, I will be 27 soon and most likely 30 by the time I graduate.  I have time and will enjoy the sweat and tears it will take to get a teaching position.  Thank you again for taking the time to reply to my post.

Respectfully,
Shana D.

[diana_prince]

Should I get an MFA in creative writing and then a PhD in general English? 

Semper Fi!

The MFA is a terminal degree. If you earn the MFA, it isn't necessary to get the PhD in English. It really depends on your interests. One of your fellow former Marines, Anthony Swofford, author of the memoir Jarhead, received the MFA in English from the University of Iowa aka Iowa Writers' Workshop, which I believe was the first creative writing program in the country and is the number one ranked grad school for creative writing. Are you interested in becoming an author?

If you want to teach ESL, maybe consider getting a secondary level teacher certificate or endorsement and adjunct at the college level. There are typically more full time tenure track teaching jobs available with health insurance benefits at the K-12 level than in higher education.

[grasshopper]

Hi Shana - one thing you might want to consider is taking some time to figure out exactly why you want to do graduate work in English lit. If you are really passionate about it, that's one thing. But if you just like the idea of being a professor, that's a whole other ball game.

To get a PhD in English lit, you're looking at six years of non-stop study, at least. You've got to be really invested in your research, emotionally and academically, just to survive it without going insane. You've got to love it, or you're going to be miserable. And the research doesn't end with the PhD. If you are one of the few new graduates to find full time work, you'll be expected to continue doing research, in addition to teaching. In fact, even if you don't find full time work, you'll still be expected to continue doing research, or you probably won't find a job.

I mention this because your initial post painted a pretty broad range of interests. I don't think that there's anything wrong with that, per se, certainly not at your stage of study. But it makes me wonder if you've been thinking about what you would like to research, or if you've been concentrating on what will make you employable. Both are considerations, too be sure. But you should be putting at least as much thought into what you want to study (and if you want to study it in all its minutiae for a very, very long time) as you put into what you want to teach.

Winnie's point, that the odds of finding work in English lit are very slim, is an important consideration in deciding whether or not you really have a passion for the discipline. If you're going into this because you want to be a Professor of Anything, you might want to consider a less competitive discipline (although every discipline is going to require research), or as Diana Prince suggested, perhaps consider teaching at the k-12 level instead. The competition is fierce for higher ed positions, especially in English lit, and you're going to need a lot of solid research and publications to make yourself competitive on the job market. If you're not passionate about your research, then you're going to find this very difficult. This isn't like boot camp, where it's over in a few months. This is the rest of your working life, and you're going to be expected to be self-motivated for the duration of your career. If you don't love it, how motivated are you going to be?

As for age, you're not really starting much later than most. At 27-30 yrs old, I think you're probably in the younger half of average. Although I think quite a few students enter an MA program straight out of a BA, many more wait between the masters and PhD degrees. Certainly being 30 at the beginning of a PhD isn't uncommon. So I wouldn't worry about feeling like you have to rush through this because you're so far behind everyone else.

Anyway, good luck with all of this. Have you spoken to your current professors about your plans? I'm sure that they'll have more ideas for you, knowing what you've studied, where you've excelled, and what your interests are.

[merce]

It sounds like you really could use a lot of guidance. Coming here is a good idea and hopefully we can all help in directing you to the right sources of info on English and grad school.

There were a number of things that confused me in your query.  You mention wanting to teach English at the college level then talk about doing an MFA or a degree in Asian Studies or Comparative Literature or working with EFL.  All of these are very different things.

As ppl have said, figure out what you want to do.
If you want to teach English to non-native speakers that is a completely different track than what one does in an English Dept. In my experience most places have a dept. for English and another completely unrelated dept. for those interested in Eng. as International/foreign Lang.  The requirements for doing this type of English teaching are completely different. Look at TESOL for help with this option.
http://www.tesol.org/s_tesol/index.asp

If, however, you want to teach literature that has been written in English then you would choose your main area of interest: say, mechanics and machinery in 19th-c. Brit lit. You then figure out which programs in the world have great 19th c. Eng. Lit depts and look into what they are like. You might like the work a few authors writing on industrialism and you could see where they teach. Now, you mentioned graduating by 30. So you would get your BA at age 30 and start your Ph.D. then? It does take quite a bit of time so you should consider the Grad School life a good life rather than a hoop to go through. Grad school takes forever and is a whole life--hence this forum.

I don't know anything about teaching creative writing so I'll just say that I don't believe an MFA really puts you in the running for the type of positions discussed above. A degree in East Asian studies might be v. interesting and might make you a wee bit more marketable if you want to work in TESOL for Asian students, but it might be overkill. A degree in East Asian Studies would mean knowing a language/culture and studying that for itself.

You will have to choose what to do first, then follow the right path. If you won't be starting grad school for another couple of years you have some time to research all of these things.
I'd suggest looking at websites of English depts at various Universities, look for people you would like to be: a Prof. of Victorian Literature at a small school on the coast in New England who has written a couple novels as well.  If that is who you want to be look at her CV (usually available online) or at least where she did her MFA OR PhD.
Good luck!

[litic]

These posts have been so informative.  I did not realize just how much I left out of the equation.  I want to thank everyone that replied for their guidance and advice.  It is truly appreciated.  It is a correct assumption that I have no area of research in mind.  The whole reason I even thought about becoming a Professor was because I love literature so much.  I thought perhaps I could help someone else to love and/or appreciate everything reading and writing has to offer.

The ESL angle came up recently when my boyfriend, who is also a Marine and is native Korean, told me some of the horror stories he experienced as a student in ESL classes in high school and college.  I did not like the idea of other students trying to learn and being made to feel worthless.  Please, do not think that I am saying all ESL teachers are this way, I am only saying perhaps I would be able to help even more students this direction.

I am currently a Cpl in the Corps and being an NCO carries certain responsibilities.  My nickname has become Mom because my fellow Marines are constantly coming to me for guidance and advice in all areas of their lives.  I enjoy being able to help young adults and I thought that a good way to combine that with my love for literature would be to teach.  The appeal of college level teaching versus K-12 level was simply that I thought I would be able to deal with more advanced reading materials and perhaps students that were interested in learning about new kinds of literature.

I can see from reading other posts all over this website that I may have romanticized the life of a college Professor.  I knew writing and research would be involved but I can honestly say that I had no idea it would be the focus over teaching.  Boot camp is only three months and then my duty has been for three years, all overseas.  The hard work and time commitment is not what concerns me.  I have the motivation to see this through to the end, the problem comes in where to apply my motivation.

I have lived in the world away from college and I thought I was ready to go straight into graduate school from the military.  I have my GI Bill and I am ready to go, but I see now that perhaps it would be a good idea to get my bearings once back in the civilian world and see which direction my compass points.  I want to thank everyone again for their wonderful advice and I look forward to even more.  Please keep it coming.  From each reply I get something else to think about and that gives me hope.  Thank you again for everything!

~Shana - Semper Fidelis!

[trentsands]

If you like a teaching focus, maybe consider an Ed.D. in English.  There are those here who will discredit Ed.D.'s, but I know it has opened up opportunities for individuals, including those who want to do research into the teaching of English and Literature at the secondary and post-secondary levels (with your mention of ESL and reaching students, you might enjoy this sort of research).

The National Council of Teachers of English (http://www.ncte.org/) is an organization dedicated to research in English teaching and the professional development of English teachers from all levels of secondary education through undergraduate college levels.  Check out the website, including their publications, to see what kind of work is out there.