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[dept_geek]

Hi all

I have an opportunity to attend a conference in Scotland next summer. Because I teach at a small school with almost no travel money, being able to go overseas is at the head of the "this is so cool" list. (basically, the travel budget is "hey that's neat.. enjoy yourself! oh, and find a sub before you go.") I'm also in a area where the 'major' conferences tend to be in the U.S. So, the upshot is this is something I want to 'do right' and really enjoy myself - and hopefully spend some time exploring and playing.

Travelers.. I need your help.. I'm thinking of flying to London, spending a few days there, then taking the train to Edinburgh, spending some time there, then somehow getting to Dundee for the conference, then coming home. But as you can see, there are gaps in my plans.

What are your recommendations for cool things to do, places to go, stay, visit, ? Getting around the area? (I want to 'leave the driving' to someone else.. so trains/buses are high on the list) It's too early in the year for the Tattoo, but are there other festivals happening that you like?  I spent a few weeks in the Yorkshire area, but that was too many years ago. Maybe I will get off the train in that area and spend a day or two..

Looking forward to your ideas & stories. Thanks so much.

[expatinuk]

Trains can be quite expensive, so you might want to check out the Railpass you can buy in the US for use here in the UK. Also, check out flights to Dublin or Edinburgh as well as flights from the US to London. Both of those cities sometimes have cheaper flights than London.

It's difficult to say what you should see because I don't know what your interests are. I like historical stuff... so that's what I look for.

[dept_geek]

Expatinuk -
Thanks for the info on Railpass! I have that on my list of things to check in to. As to things I like to do... definitely historical stuff (geeks who are interested in history & literature make other geeks nervous haha), "local interest" stuff (just a little more quirky that the tourist-y things), food/drink that I can't get here, shopping (not clothes, but (old) books, music, ) When I went to York, I spent a fair amount of time in the Minster, listing to the music and looking at the architecture.

Anyway, I have lots of time to collect info and ideas, and I very much appreciate your thoughts.

-dg

[figee]

As someone who spent an inordinant amount of time on the Edinburgh-London train line doing field work, I would strongly suggest FLYING!!!!  Especially in winter.  The train journey involves a horrible cramped trip with people who start drinking in London then carry on through.  Given I was doing a lot of travel in winter, when heating on the trains was intermittant and delays (because of sheep on the line at Spittal) interminable, I wouldn't do any longer on the trains than you need to.  Unless you travel first class.

Scotland is fantastic - bus is likely to be your best bet to get from Edinburgh to Dundee, but if you can hire a car, the scenery is spectacular.  Edinburgh: to do: ghost tours (especially the Mary Kings Close one) - you get to go under the city and get a real sense of the history, climb Arthur's Seat - fantastic views, Edinburgh Castle, best seen from Jenner's tea room on Prince's Street, but it depends how up close and personal you like getting to those sorts of things.  If the Festival is on, the pubs are open late and you'll have a blast.

Rest of Scotland: the west coast is spectacular.  Be prepared for long evenings all over.  I would highly recommend going to a place called Plockton if you get the chance.  Just near Skye, its a lovely little village with superb food and highland coos walking the streets...

Can you tell I miss that place?

[expatinuk]

I actually really do have to agree with figee about hiring a car and about the train experience in the UK. You will find that renting a car will turn out to be cheaper than the train (trains are horribly expensive here). Gas is expensive in the UK, but cars get pretty good gas mileage so the overall expense is about the same as in the US.

Quirky things I like:

Eating a Balti in Birmingham, Going to the Bull Ring - the new architecture is amazing as to how it fits in with the old. Take a cannal boat ride in Birmingham as well. The English cannals were the forerunner of an 'Interstate' Highway system.

Eating an oakcake in Stoke on Trent - and going to the Wedgwood museum and factory. Sadly much of the traditional English china industry has been shipped overseas, but the museums are wonderful in showing how the industry paralled the rise of the middle class in 18th century England.

Anything in the Peak District (I don't mean food wise!), But the towns of Bakewell, Castleton, Eyam are all great. And I love the different caverns you can visit. If you're into Grand houses, there's Chatsworth, but I think that Haddon Hall near Bakewell is nicer (it's not really a grand house but is frozen in Tudor times). I also love Hardwick Hall, but then anything connect with the great Bess of Hardwick is amazing... she was such an amazing woman.

Lichfield Cathredral - This is one of my favorite cathredrals in the UK

Hadrians Wall - I've 'driven' the wall for several stops (going west to east and getting out and seeing the wall at several points)

Lake District - even though it's very touristy the views are wonderful

Walking the Royal Mile in Edinburgh - but this really is touristy

I could go on and on....

[larryc]

We did this five years ago--flew into London, drove to a conference in Glasgow, made a three week vacation out of it. I strongly recommend shelling out to rent a car.  You will get so much more out of your time there, and who knows when you'll be back? Scotland is gorgeous beyond belief, though we were charmed by York as well.  It will be colder than anywhere in this hemisphere should be in June, and rainy, and you'll love every minute.  Have fun!

[sueenglish]

Trains are expensive and unreliable here - but the route between London and Edinburgh would enable you a stop at a number of places on-route along the east coast:

You could do York again if you fancied it. But also Durham or Newcastle (for a more modern and normal version of English life - lots of shops, too!)

If you decided to fly to Edinburgh, you could first go up to Cambridge for a look at old buildings and, er, lots of studnets. You could then take a flight from Stanstead airport to Edinburgh which has cheaper flights.

All the other suggestions are excellent if you're happy to criss-cross the country. Be warned: Edinburgh is expensive! Though you can take a day tour from there right up to Loch Ness - really good fun.


Enjoy!

[expatinuk]

One other thing about driving (as opposed to using the train) is that you can get some pretty good hotel deals if you pre book and pre pay for Travel Lodges. Travel Lodge is the hotel chain that is usually located at motorway services. (http://www.travellodge.co.uk) it's not uncommon to find a room for £26 a night. That's for the room NOT per person.

One of the 'endearing' quirks of the British hotel culture is that the price you're quoted for a room is usually PER PERSON... so if you see a great B&B deal for only £50, and you and your partner are traveling, it will cost you £100.

I've stayed in Travel Lodges all over the UK and they are pretty good... basic... but comfortable beds and  quiet.

[koda_kube]

Agree with the others, Trains are expensive.  If you are going to rent a car anyway why not do it from London (i.e. one of those pick up in London drop off in Glasgow) that would be useful if you fly into Heathrow and out of Glasgow.  However...my last few trips back I've used public transport to get from a to b (flights) its cheap, quick and I don't have to worry about driving on the 'wrong-side of the road' or the shift on the wrong side - also be aware that tho' you can rent automatics (v. expensive) standards are the norm.  I found the roads very busy in 2005 compared to when I lived in the UK (I left in 1997).

I agree with figee the west coast is georgeous (I lived in Glenuig over-looking the Cullins of Skye) - Dundee for conference is OK but I wouldn't hang around there so where you visit depends whether you are a city lover or wish to see some of the scenery.  Not far from Dundee is Stirling and in the central region the Trossachs are quite pretty.

[snape]

To back up Science ex-pat The Travel Lodges are good near the motorways; although less common, you do sometimes find them in city centres. 
You can save quite a lot money by booking trains in advance www.thetrainline.co.uk
To enjoy Edinburgh very cheaply, its a great place just to walk around.
I recently stayed in Edinburgh University accommodation. It was very reasonably priced, though very basic.

[dept_geek]

Thanks to all for the great words of wisdom & advice. Even though the trip is forever away, I'm looking forward to the diversion.

[john_proctor]

I spent a couple of weeks in Edinburgh and the Highlands this Summer before relocating (sorry to be slow responding; unpacking, orientating, etc. at a new job and not checking in on the lists much).

One thought: consider a direct flight to Edinburgh.  I found this Summer that Cont. had a direct, non stop from new york to edn. that was the cheapest option (much less than any other, non-direct flight or flying to London and taking a train or short flight).

Message me, if you'd like, for food/whisky/hotel data that I might know about.

[historyphd]

I lived in Edinburgh for a number of years and it is, indeed, expensive.  It's also much easier to fly up than "rely" on the overly-priced trains.  Try EasyJet for a flight; if you book early enough it's very cheap, and the flight is only an hour from London to Edinburgh.

[dept_geek]

Thanks john_proctor and historyphd for the advice to fly to Edinburgh. I will do that - then spend an extra few days exploring the city and the food and uhm.. "adult bevarages". john_poctor, once classes get going and it's not so crazy, I will take you up on the offer of messaging for good places to go.

[scotia]

I would advise not planning to spend long in Dundee. While it may be beloved of Dundonians it has little to keep travellers occupied. It does have the Tay Bridge, which was the scene of one of the UK's worst rail disasters, and the subject of one of the worst pieces of poetry inflicted on the English speaking world
(see http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk/poems/pgdisaster.htm)
but little else. It is not easy to find places to eat in the centre in the evening.

In Edinburgh I would recommend getting off the main tourist beat of Princes Street and the Royal Mile to wander around the New Town (actually pretty old) and some of the 'villages' that make up the city.There are some good secondhand bookshops in the Broughton area of the city, which is within walking distance of the centre, and a few around the university. Dean Village, the Dean Gallery and the Gallery of Modern Art are worth a visit; the last used to, and may still have, a good tea shop. Edinburgh is the other city built on seven hills and it is worth climbing at least one of them on a clear day to admire the views over the city to the Highlands. There are lots of Museums, including the Royal Museum of Scotland which, if it is not being refurbished when you visit, has a notable atrium.

In June in the Highlands of Scotland and on the West Coast the midges are out. These are tiny biting insects that reduced a Canadian friend who is used to 'bugs the size of bears' to speechless horror the first time he encountered clouds of them on stepping out of doors. So if you do plan to go out of the cities to the north and west (the scenery is well worth it) it may be worth investing in some industrial strength insect repellent. Or you may be one of those lucky people the bugs don't bite.....