next »

[diana_prince]

Do the ed. students at your college take a logic course?

Regardless of their major or interest area or reason for attending, I believe that philosophy is a required course. I no longer attend college. I phinished my Ph.D. Most colleges where I am located offer a 5-year teacher education program. By the 5th year, students have the undergrad degree, teacher certification (after passing a standardized exam), and one year toward a master's degree, which usually just requires completing the thesis after being hired. Sometimes it's more difficult due to time constraints to teach full time at the K-12 level and attend grad school. Contrary to a lot of the posts I read in these threads, education majors here have extensive content area study, along with pedagogy.

[genecks]

I approve, endorse, and recommend this message!

I'm taking a philosophy course in a couple of weeks. I think the most important of writing a paper would be logic. An opinion is a nice thing, but being able to back it up is more important. The argument must be valid and sound. If I had some time, I would open a logic book and read it all the way through. I don't have that kind of time at the moment, but a logic book is on my list of important things to read and comprehend.

I was just thinking today, "It would have be nice if people spoke about logic in high school. I don't remember anyone ever talking about fallacies."

[sherbertsilkwrm3]

By sheer coincidence, I am starting a logic course in the high school I teach.  I was surprised that the administration accepted my proposal so easily.  Though I don't know how many students I have yet, I figure it's between 22 and 30, which I figure isn't too bad for the first year.  Hopefully it will grow.

[gladboy]

i agree u all.

[acrimone]

Back in the misty days at the dawn of time, I taught formal logic to 5th graders for a few months.

There's no reason to wait until High School.  Little kids intuitively understand logic -- they're thirsty as hell for someone to show them, step by step, how it works.

[philoctetes]

Back in the misty days at the dawn of time, I taught formal logic to 5th graders for a few months.

I teach 5th graders logic all the time.

Oh sorry, I'm wrong, it just feels like they are 5th graders.

[acrimone]

Back in the misty days at the dawn of time, I taught formal logic to 5th graders for a few months.

I teach 5th graders logic all the time.

Oh sorry, I'm wrong, it just feels like they are 5th graders.

Zing!

[freewill07]

Indeed very interesting...

[invinoveritas]

Philoctetes said:

I teach 5th graders logic all the time.

Oh sorry, I'm wrong, it just feels like they are 5th graders.
 


You have expressed the honest sentiment of every logic teacher throughout history.  Are you Socrates reincarnated? 

I love it...serious, true, and hilarious all at the same time.

[philoctetes]

You have expressed the honest sentiment of every logic teacher throughout history.  Are you Socrates reincarnated? 

You got me.

[daurousseau]

I cannot think of a better 'college prep' course than an introduction to logic.  Why isn't this a required course for high school students?

It's a rare high school that would have anyone qualified to teach formal logic. It's an even rarer high school that has anyone qualified to teach logical thinking. But it's an excellent idea if we exclude formal logic. Maybe take lecture notes from Paul Feyerabend's Introduction to Philosophy course and scale them down to high school discourse. (E.g.. do away with P > Q, but keep stuff like "Truth flows down and falsity flows up.")

[careerbugger]

I have to say that while this is certainly controversial, logic, even the basic principals of it, would benefit some students greatly. Sure, you will still have those that can't yet apply the thinking that would be new to them that they would receive from such a course.  However, I think that they need to be introduced to the concept early on in college. They may find themselves benefiting from it later. I have seen some colleges (the state I am in does not require this of all students) that require beginning freshmen to take some sort of "Introduction to college"  course and I think this is great. I am always surprised by the number of individuals I wonder "How did they even get here?". Some are just here because of their parents, and I have had the advantage, or maybe the alienation, of choosing to go to college on my own accord. But, more and more, I find that students now go into college not knowing how to think logically in the slightest, but, sadly, a good number of them leave the same way. So, for those who do not "naturally evolve", if you will, into learning from their life experiences- then, I think that this type of course would benefit them.

[hardasdolomite]

Logic yes, formal logic not so much.

The evidence is that people who take courses in psychology or medicine that require reasoning re real world settings and examples come out with better logic skills than those who take courses in formal (abstract) logic.

Unfortunately, since formal logic looks more like math, administrators are more likely to consider it prestigious enough to teach than something that sounds more fuzzy - but nothing stops you from salting your course with every real world example and problem you can find. A good place to start is the history of engineering failures (and medical misdiagnoses or historical dead-ends in medical research) since these very, very often result from a lapse in logic - sometimes one that a whole discipline has adhered to for a long period of time. These cases are vivid, important, and reward precise reasoning.

[conjugate]

Logic yes, formal logic not so much.

Hear, hear!  I'm in favor of informal logic.  Consider the following argument.

"Wha, y'all jes' knows as to how P implies Q.  Sho' nuff.  So iffen y'all sees Q just ain't a-lookin' right, yew jes' gots ta figger P ain't true no-how.  Thass what we-uns call modus cornponens."  That's about the most informal logic I know of.  Anybody else?

[margomcp]

I almost understood that, conjugate!

I had some logic in English class in high school but I don't know that that "formally" stuck and that was back in the 1960s.  But I had a computer course, "Introduction to Problem Solving and Algorithm Design" in the last 5 years that was wonderful.  But it took the 30 year difference for me to "get it" and think it was wonderful.  I don't know that "logic" is part of being a teenager?