invinoveritas
Lucretian Praefectus
Senior member
Posts: 538
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« on: July 19, 2006, 12:23:42 AM » |
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Hi everyone,
I've taught philosophy at the college level for a few years now. It is definitely a challenge every semester. Almost all incoming freshmen have no background whatsoever in philosophical thinking. Now, while I think that high school students should be introduced to philosophy (and I strongly believe they should have a basic 'survey course' in ethics), I can understand why philosophy isn't taught in HS. Philosophy is controversial. Many parents do not want their children 'questioning whether or not God exists' or 'questioning any kind of authority' during the teenage years....its hard enough dealing with teenage angst. Was Socrates guilty of 'corrupting the yourth'? I don't think so, but it's not hard to see how some people thought he was. I understand the point.
But there is one philosophical subject that I strongly believe should be required study at all high schools: LOGIC!
Now, we all know that many students struggle with basic skills like math and reading comprehension. I'm not saying that these should be neglected. But I've found that many new college students do not have the slightest inkling of how to tell a good argument from a bad one. Some have no idea what 'logic' is (wasn't that some alien language from Star Trek?).
Logic is essential for critical thinking. This isn't a just a push for teaching 'philosophy' in high school....Success in any college course requires critical thinking skills. Logic lies at the basis of thinking.
I cannot think of a better 'college prep' course than an introduction to logic. Why isn't this a required course for high school students?
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diana_prince
The Lasso of Truth is a woman's greatest weapon.
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2006, 02:03:14 PM » |
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Have you noticed if computer programming aids students in developing logical reasoning skills in philosophy? A lot of high schools offer computer programming courses, which require logic to make the program run.
If you could develop a program or course of study to teach high school students to be more logical, I think you would solve a host of problems, including drop-out rates, smoking, car accidents and fatalities, etc.
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dale1
Eventually, if you hang around long enough, they'll make you a
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My mother-in-law would point out God's gray hairs.
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« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2006, 02:30:21 PM » |
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Honestly I don't see how logic is related to lowering rates of smoking and other poor behaviors. Sometimes it's experience that makes the difference, not smarts.
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Dale (original)
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diana_prince
The Lasso of Truth is a woman's greatest weapon.
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« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2006, 02:57:34 PM » |
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Honestly I don't see how logic is related to lowering rates of smoking and other poor behaviors. Sometimes it's experience that makes the difference, not smarts.
A lot of teen behavior appears to be illogical. I don't think teens have to experience something in order to be smart about it. Sometimes it's avoiding the experience that makes someone smart. For example, not experiencing drinking and driving is a lot smarter than experiencing it. Maybe arete1 can develop a program or course where teens use logic to determine alcohol consumption + keys in ignition + foot on the gas pedal = not a good idea. I agree with arete1. I think a course in logic for high school students is a good idea, even if the examples I provided aren't exactly what arete1 meant. |
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elsie
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« Reply #4 on: July 19, 2006, 04:06:55 PM » |
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As someone who tries to teach logic in composition classes, I whole-heartedly agree. I would love to see students coming in knowing what an argument is, what fallacies are, and so on.
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"People assume that time is a strict progression from cause to effect. But actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint, it's more like a big ball of wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey stuff." - the Doctor
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conjugate
Compulsive punster and insatiable reader, and
Member-Moderator
Distinguished Senior Member
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Tends to have warped sense of humor
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« Reply #5 on: July 19, 2006, 08:17:25 PM » |
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As a mathematician, I agree. I learned logic "the hard way," that is by taking a course from the philosophy department. From time to time we were shown some of the basic ideas in various classes as we proved theorems, but it was sort of assumed we knew it. There is a course taught in a lot of math programs for rising sophomores or first-semester juniors, often called something like "Introduction to Higher Mathematics." Much of this course is just logic (purely symbolic).
In my philosophy class we learned some of the historical perspective, so I can rattle off modus ponens and modus tollens and even know what a syllogism in Barbara is. So, I don't use the Latin phrases, but I think it's worthwhile stuff. And think of how much we could skip in that Intro. Higher Math course.
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
∀ε>0∃δ>0∋|x–a|<δ⇒|ƒ(x)-ƒ(a)|<ε |
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sappho
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« Reply #6 on: July 19, 2006, 08:27:33 PM » |
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I wholeheartedly agree that logic is essential to problem solving and critical thinking, which are skills that lack in many students (and others) nowadays. I get so easily frustrated with people who cannot construct a reasonable if-then clause, or can't see the difference in inductive and deductive reasoning. I wish students would take logic classes in high school.
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"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
--Mahatma Gandhi
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busyslinky
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« Reply #7 on: July 19, 2006, 08:54:23 PM » |
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Logic is good.
Students who take logic are good.
Logical students do good
Do all students do good?
Is this logical?
That's what I remember from my logic course. I am not sure what the answer is.
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diana_prince
The Lasso of Truth is a woman's greatest weapon.
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« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2006, 09:11:18 PM » |
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That's what I remember from my logic course. I am not sure what the answer is.
I remember: "I think, therefore I am." I scraped by intro to philosophy class with a "C" as a college freshman. I seem to remember my instructor becoming frustrated trying to explain to us some concept about "How do we know this chair really exists?" I sat in the back of the room with a friend of mine from high school. |
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busyslinky
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2006, 12:08:38 AM » |
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I think you were in a philosophy course.
Philosophy is what I think you took.
I think Logic is a subset of philosophy.
I am not sure if I thought I took logic and but I took philosophy.
Thus, I think I took philosophy and then I took logic.
I took logic, thus I am logical.
I took philosophy, thus I am philosophical.
So if I failed philosophy, does it mean it never existed?
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Such a wonderful toy!
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invinoveritas
Lucretian Praefectus
Senior member
Posts: 538
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« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2006, 01:01:24 AM » |
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busyslinky,
You are a prime example of why logic should be taught in high schools. I think your sad attempt to make a joke of it proves my original point.
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busyslinky
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« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2006, 04:05:17 AM » |
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I think a lot of things need to be taught in school. But students and schools have only so many resources and so much time.
Logic should be part of math courses at least, and in many ways they are already in existence.
I am as illogical as they come. But for some reason I did very well in my philosophy and logic courses. And you know what, they made as much impact on me as the home economics course I took in my 7th grade class, but there it was much more practical. I learned to bake bread. I liked many other courses much better than I liked my philosophy courses...go figure!?
I like my jokes.
You should try a few jokes sometime, even if they are sad.
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csguy
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« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2006, 11:45:21 AM » |
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Have you noticed if computer programming aids students in developing logical reasoning skills in philosophy? A lot of high schools offer computer programming courses, which require logic to make the program run.
To some extent yes. But it is really not a replacement. Actually, relatively few high schools offer computer programming. We are quite concerned about this (see http://csta.acm.org/ ) |
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diana_prince
The Lasso of Truth is a woman's greatest weapon.
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Posts: 230
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« Reply #13 on: July 22, 2006, 08:12:03 AM » |
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Actually, relatively few high schools offer computer programming. We are quite concerned about this (see http://csta.acm.org/ ) I really thought more high schools were taking strides to teach computer programming. When I was a high school senior in the late '80s, I took BASIC (Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code). Is computer programming included in technology standards for secondary level students? I need to be more careful of the conclusions I draw about education based on regional differences. Almost every high school I've visited or taught in, at least where I live, has had some type of computer programming course, not just keyboarding. |
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csguy
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« Reply #14 on: July 22, 2006, 10:30:35 AM » |
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Actually, relatively few high schools offer computer programming. We are quite concerned about this (see http://csta.acm.org/ ) I really thought more high schools were taking strides to teach computer programming. When I was a high school senior in the late '80s, I took BASIC (Beginner's All-purpose Symbolic Instruction Code). Is computer programming included in technology standards for secondary level students? I need to be more careful of the conclusions I draw about education based on regional differences. Almost every high school I've visited or taught in, at least where I live, has had some type of computer programming course, not just keyboarding. Programming is an option for the "technology" area here. But so are Office Applications and MultiMedia (video). There's also a shortage of qualified teachers -- very few students in the CS teaching field. Do the ed. students at your college take a logic course? |
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