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Author Topic: Reminding myself NOT to compare...  (Read 4457 times)
smart_e_pantz
Yes, We Did!
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« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2006, 05:07:37 PM »

Luckily, many of my departmental colleagues have instituted similar requirements in their classes. Over the past several years, there has been a noticeable improvement in our students' research and writing skills.

And this is really really important.  This past year was my first year at a Small LAC.  There was one other person in the department who was also new.  By the end of the second semester, it was clear that we were the only two professors: (a) holding the students to traditional academic standards (we were they only two professors to fail students for violating the honor code) and (b) requiring students to do research projects of some sort.

It was so clear that our standards were higher that one of the FULL PROFESSORS in the department remarked with a gleam in his eye that if they could keep us around for four years they would be able to clear the department of slackers.  This is flattering, but it should not be up to the two new professors to enforce standards in the department. 

You were lucky because your colleagues saw the need for higher standards and acted accordingly.
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"If there is anyone out there who still doubts that America is a place where all things are possible; who still wonders if the dream of our founders is alive in our time; who still questions the power of our democracy, tonight is your answer. "  Barack Obama (November 4, 2008)
grasshopper
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« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2006, 05:17:23 PM »

TM, you remind me so much of one of my own undergrad professors. He literally handed out "prompts" in every class, detailing what we had done last class, what we would do this class, and where our assignments were headed for the future.

This professor was fabulous - he gave me a great introduction the nuts and bolts of doing research. He would build an entire term around the researching and writing of a paper. The first week or two was a general introduction to the class material. But then the real work started. By about week two, he had us reading general encyclopedia articles or textbook chapters. Then, we took a look at the footnotes and citations within the articles that opened up a new area of inquiry or mentioned something not developed within the article itself. We dug around until we found the books/articles cited in our introductory reading (welcome, inter-library loan!). Then we searched out the footnotes/citations from those articles. And he had us build an annotated bibliography every step of the way, by having us write one or two page "reading responses" to everything we read.

Everyone was doing research in the same general area, but our individual research projects quickly became more and more diverse within those broad areas. So in class, he had us form groups with other students who were researching topics fairly close to our own topics. We read each other's annotated bibliographies and paper drafts, and monitored our group members' progress, providing feedback to each other throughout the term.

At the end of the term, each group gave a presentation, bringing together all the research done by the individual members of the group. The bulk of our grades weren't based on the final product, but on the entire process of researching and writing a paper.

It was a great way to learn how to do research. Not only did I learn how to navigate a library, but I learned the importance of footnotes (turns out they're not just necessary to avoid charges of plagiarism! They can actually be useful!), and I learned how scholarship builds on other scholarship.
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prof_twocents
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Did I miss anything important?


« Reply #17 on: July 06, 2006, 07:21:42 PM »

I think most of the hyperventilating about the internet is overdone and not helpful. The internet is, for good or bad, the wave of the future for research. Already our library is phasing out many of its print journal subscriptions in favor of e-subscriptions through databases. If they could get books in electronic form instead of printed form, they would do that too. It saves money and space. It also allows them to check books and journals out to multiple people at the same time.

Why order something through interlibrary loan if something is digitized and instantly available at a mouse-click?

There are a lot of terrific resources on the internet. The challenge for us is to teach students how to sort out the good stuff from the garbage.
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iomhaigh
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« Reply #18 on: July 06, 2006, 09:02:24 PM »

you must be implying the commerical/news articles not the academic searches in your internet  concern.

It's worse than that Oldie.  Many students think just because something is posted on a blog, it must be a great source.  I could live with it (to a point) if they were actually citing newspaper articles.

I actually went so far as to bring up Wikipedia in class one day and edit it to include incorrect answers from a final exam from the previous semester right in front of them to demonstrate a point.  (I then switched it back.)

Grasshopper - I love that model.  I just may have to swipe it from your undergrad prof as I try to create a similar class for the fall.  Thank you for sharing! 
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anon2
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2006, 10:52:01 AM »


You can thank the K-12 "teachers" for this.

My daughter recently graduated from high school. I was shocked at what you can get high school credit for. During one quarter last year one of her friends took

1. study hall
2. teacher's aide
3. study hall
4. physical education

(Notice two study halls, but no lectures. How does THAT work???) At any rate, to graduate from HS you have to acquire 23 or more points. My daughter's friend go 0.5 points for each study hall, 0.5 points for the teacher's aide and 2 points for the PE class.

I noticed throughout my daughters "education" that students are allowed to slide by with the minimum effort. Of course research amounts to the first three google entries because in high school that's all you have to do to get an assignment done. Students are taught effort---no matter how meager---is something to be celebrated, praised and lauded. So, when they get to college, they think that's all they have to do.

I say flunk them. They'll get the message that what worked in K-12 won't cut it any more. Unless you are willing to do something this radical, don't expect to see anything change.

Sad really...

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conjugate
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Tends to have warped sense of humor


« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2006, 11:25:20 AM »

Oh God, another "back in my day" post.  There is a recipe for these:
  • A. Take one part idealized view of the past
  • B. Take another part cynical and stereotyped view of the present
  • C. Use A to beat B over the head, while moaning "Oh woe is me."

I know what you mean.  Back in my day, of course, the recipe was different.  By golly, if we wanted to do a "back in my day" diatribe (and we didn't post them in my day!  We wrote them down or used telephone or just spoke out loud) we'd have to refer to the obligatory Monty Python skit.  The kids these days, you tell them you have to refer to a Monty Python skit in an "in my day" diatribe, they don't know what you mean.  And they don't believe a word of it.

On a more serious note, I have a hard time in a Math class assigning papers.  I have done so for my History of Math class, the two times I've taught it.  But it's modest in extent; only five pages double-spaced, and I don't restrict citations.  Perhaps I should make them find a book in the library.  Lord knows we've got enough of them.

This problem, to me, is discipline-specific; I was never asked to write in my UG major.  I had a great time in the writing courses that were required for the degree, so it gave me the skills to build on when I had to learn to write math.  But I can understand that many grad students feel betrayed when they find that lots of math involves writing clear, coherent logical paragraphs; after all, hardly any of that is required when you're an undergraduate.  I suspect many of them feel that they've been victimized by a bait-and-switch tactic.  So the term paper is good for them.  I think I'll try (if I teach the class next time) making it a bit more challenging.
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Unfortunately, I think conjugate gives good advice.
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comp_queen
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The Young Fogey Boring Suburban Forumite


« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2006, 03:47:21 PM »

Several people on this thread, and in past forum discussions of this topic, have noted that those of us who grow up to be profs/teachers/researchers/administrators were likely working much harder than most students at our undergrad schools.

This is undoubtedly true.  However, in my own experience, I saw a lot of my friends' papers, worked in the writing center, did a lot of group studying, and so on.  People got Cs on work that was miles better than anything my students--even my best students--hand in.

This is not imaginary; none of us are remembering a past that wasn't.  Standards, and student work ethics, are demonstrably lower, even in about ten years.
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I hateseses powerpointseses
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"How...the bolt of our fate slides home." ~Thomas Harris
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