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[prof_d]

Misc. comments

I don't think I ever have passed someone who should fail--I've probably given D's to people who should have failed.  But, when I look at my grade distributions, F is more common than D.  I do sometimes (and I state it in the syllabus) drop grades. D is the really stupid grade.

I believe serious assignments do more to improve the thinking and writing of students than giving more high school material.  Even with those who don't seem skilled, why give them more of the very things that they failed with for years in K-12? Teach them ideas they have never encountered.

I was struck by the comment that some fields EXPECT the course to fail students (only in the sciences, I expect).  That is also odd to me.  Why would it be a good thing to fail students as opposed to figure out ways to teach them?  But, it does point out that "real" courses like physics are one thing, while writing or the social science intro courses aren't really supposed to be serious filters. There's far more pressure to let students by in the non-STEM courses.

And then there are the regulations external to universities. Some schools in state systems also have very limited capacity to turn down poor students, so admissions may not always be to blame. And then the Feds and States and accreditors want proof of retention/time to degree that puts another irresponsible pressure on faculty and colleges to graduate people. What's more it doesn't even fit so many of our students who are non-traditional, part-time learners who won't graduate six years after they begin. Some states are now trying to eliminate "remedial" education from 4 year schools as a waste of state money, but I don't know how that will work out.

We allow students to replace a grade of D or lower. I don't see a real problem with this. Our evidence shows that it is mostly first year courses that get repeated. So many come to college and find it a serious change in expectations from High School. They learn to study here. It's a bit of assessment evidence, really.

[comp_queen]

that reminds me...I've wanted to ask about this at other schools, and I think this thread is good for it--our fair univ allows students receiving an F to completely replace the grade with another if they take and pass the course at a later date. Has anyone ever heard of this? Good thing we didn't have it at my undergrad. There would have been a lot of students on the 12-year plan.

Interesting that you're surprised by this--I thought it was standard practice everywhere.  My experience, like each person's life experience, is of course only anecdotal, but this was the case at my undergrad school, and at every school everyone I knew attended.  In the case of my undergrad (small so this was probably more manageable), people even retook classes for which they'd earned Cs, looking for Bs or As the next time around.

[avaya]

The more I read this forum, the more I realize how lucky I am at my SLAC (small, not selective).  We are encouraged to grade hard and in fact our administration keeps track of the number of As and A-s that we give - if you give too many, you have to defend it, and it is an issue in tenure & promotion (giving too many As).  They defend the faculty to the death on Fs and Ds.  I guess we are pretty lucky!

I have allowed students to make up work - I had a student leave in the middle of the final - she said she had suddenly come down with a migraine - I was very suspicious ... her mom later called me, she had been admitted to the hospital for something very serious.  They gave me all the paperwork and I was happy to craft a different assignment she could take in place of the final.

But I can't imagine passing a student who didn't deserve it.  Of course, as I said, I am lucky enough to be at a school where the administration backs - and indeed encourages - rigorous grading.

[smart_e_pantz]

that reminds me...I've wanted to ask about this at other schools, and I think this thread is good for it--our fair univ allows students receiving an F to completely replace the grade with another if they take and pass the course at a later date. Has anyone ever heard of this? Good thing we didn't have it at my undergrad. There would have been a lot of students on the 12-year plan.

Interesting that you're surprised by this--I thought it was standard practice everywhere.  My experience, like each person's life experience, is of course only anecdotal, but this was the case at my undergrad school, and at every school everyone I knew attended.  In the case of my undergrad (small so this was probably more manageable), people even retook classes for which they'd earned Cs, looking for Bs or As the next time around.

I went to a SLAC.  When a student retook a class, the grade didn't get replaced both grades counted.  If you had a D or an F in a required course, you still had to retake the course, but that D or F you earned the first time around didn't just disappear.  This provided an incentive not to screw-up the first time!

[avaya]

In terms of retaking courses, at my school, students are allowed to retake two courses to replace a grade.  The original grade stays on their transcript but it is taken out of the GPA calculations.  Students can't do this if they got the poor grade due to an academic integrity violation.  So you can only do it twice and only if you earned the poor grade honestly.

[gastr1]

I went to a SLAC.  When a student retook a class, the grade didn't get replaced both grades counted.  If you had a D or an F in a required course, you still had to retake the course, but that D or F you earned the first time around didn't just disappear.  This provided an incentive not to screw-up the first time!

This was the case at my undergrad, a public, flagship R1. Big schools especially do not want or need students lingering, re-taking courses--this can screw up the registration system (a higher credit hours student takes spots from lower-credit hours students--if you have a lot of that it can be a problem), and can hurt the graduation rate, which never looks good. However, my partner--not an academic--had not heard of this either. She went to a well-regarded, fairly exclusive SLAC for undergrad.