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[Silver Spoonless, Lg Public U.]

Too many parents make life hard for their children by trying, too zealously, to make it easy for them.

- Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, (1749-1832)

[Vincnent Marchionni/Instructor]

Mike makes a valid point about a possible "disconnect" between the workplace and the intellectual expectations of highly educated but inexperienced students.
 
There is one and it can be severe.

Higher Ed cannot be expected to fill all training and educational needs of the employers who are more than willing to shift the responsibility elsewhere.

But I stand by first posting. The problems with our graduates started at home and in grade school. See the 18 Feb 2005 WSJ Letters to the Editor.

[female tenured professor]

I didn't read Levine's article, but here is my two cents on if students are "ready for the real world" when they leave college.

I've taught undergraduates for 14 years, and they are an interesting group...not quite adults, not quite kids.  I've found without fail that if I take the time to really get to know them that 80% have goals, dreams, and hopes that are entirely laudable.  

20% are too immature to formulate goals, or are not willing to work to achieve them at that point in their life journey, and I don't worry about them; I figure when these underachievers  fail college and have to go out into the real world, the response they will get to their attitude may cause them to change their ways...or not.  These 20% are not my concern at the moment; as one of my colleagues remarked, sometimes it is the student's job that semester to fail your class.  Failing teaches these students there are consequences to actions.    When these underachievers grow up and are willing to take some responsibility for their learning, then I will bend over backwards to help them out.

Among those students who have the degree of maturity to make something out of their lives, it is often lack of experience that causes them to stumble around when trying to achieve their goals.  My hope is that if I help them, introduce them to some possibilities, opportunities, or new ideas, they won't stumble so often.   For those that are hungry to find their way, I try to ease their path.  It is amazing when you ask them what they want to do with their lives, how you can tell what they love...their tone of voice changes, there is a sparkle in the eye, and they look so happy.  And, I do everything to help them hold on to that idea, that life-goal.

I would NEVER do their work for them, or lower  expectations, but rather gently guide them as they make their way.   I will simply not approve or grade a schlock-job.  I make them write several drafts of essay assignments and offer suggestions until that essay is letter-perfect, well-written, and with meaningful content.  Then, my students are allowed to apply to grad school with that admission essay they created, or submit that essay for a grade.  And, guess what, they get into the schools of their choice, or do very well in the class.  

We can castigate young people in a blanket-statement and hence abrogate our responsibility as educators, or we can get in there and help those students that want to take some responsibility for their lives and that will work for their education.   Then we produce good graduates.  But it is a reciprocal relationship, with prof and student meeting each other at the mininum half way.  But ideally the professor and learner each contribute 100%.  That's when the magic happens.

[Randy (Desk clerk/PBX)]

Having read the article and threads, it seems to me
that the University of Georgia addresses the concerns
expressed through its "extern" programs.  These
short-duration employment opportunities not only
give the student the opportunity to explore workforce environments in a variety of endeavors but also assures quick feedback to career advisors at the university which will benefit both future program participants and current staff.

[%sig%]

[Jack, Career/UofArizona]

The Millennials (Gen Y, Generation Next...take your pick) do indeed exhibit some different characteristics than their predecessors.

We in the college career development world have been discussing this at length over the past few years. Feedback from traditional types of employers echoes the content and sentiment of this article, but let's be honest,  the folks making these observations and comments are largely baby-boomers themselves, with a particular world view that is very different than the current generation.

I wonder if we are being overly concerned about this "spoiled" generation. After all, we (baby-boomers and Gen X'ers) have raised and taught them to be precisely the way they are. Shall we forget so quickly that our own parents' generation made similar observations and comments about our style, grooming (or lack thereof) music, slacker attitude, etc.

This Millennial generation has grown up in a VERY different society and were also parented diffently than we were. They have been praised and encouraged by their parents, grandparents, teachers, peers and extended families. They have been raised in structured environments that included academics, sports, the arts, public service and social engagement. Unlike baby-boomers and Gen X'ers where the parents were the center of the familial universe, this new generation were the focus and are accustomed to being respected in all walks of their lives, by people of all ages.

As a result, the Millennials are not as intimidated by the sacred symbols of authority. They are also more engaged and connected in social relationships and more questioning of authority and the status quo. They are not afraid to ask "why" things are the way they are and voice their displeasure when confronted with injustice and hypocrisy (in the workplace or elsewhere).  Maybe this is disrespectful, but they come by it honestly...we taught them. It's just that now WE are in power and they dare to question US.

You have to give the Millennials points for politeness. Their modes of dissent and opposition do not generally include flag burning, violent demonstrations, disrespectful slogans painted on tie-dyed t-shirts and signs, etc. While not unheard of, these things are certainly not the norm as they were for baby-boomers.

The Millennials are one of the largest demographics in the United States, second only to the baby-boomers themselves, and even then not by much (70 vs. 72 million). Before we begin sending our children to re-education camps to cure them of these troublesome tendencies, maybe we should take a hard look at the American workplace and see why it is so difficult for these well-adjusted, self-confident, socially-engaged "misfits" to adjust. Could it be that we have something to learn from them?

[%sig%]

[Humanitarian]

Thomas Bach, Univ. of Texas wrote:

> These graduates are 22 years old.  They are adults (and have
> legally been so for years).  It's NOT the responsibility of
> professors to get them to grow up.

It has always been the responsibility of society as a whole to educate, socialize, and humanize the young.  Professional educators share in that responsibility, and in fact do so to a much larger degree than most other adults.  A professor who does not consider it his responsiblity to help young people "grow up" has abdicated a major part of what he is being paid to do, and should have the decency to resign his privileged position and find a job he is more suited for.

> Its their responsibility. Its their parent's responsibility.

It's everyone's responsibility.

> Its not mine.

Yes, it is.  And if you don't recognize that, you're in the wrong business.

> Maybe a tour of duty in the U.S. Marine Corps would help.

Oh, yes, that's the solution!  A while back I saw a documentary about some clueless youngsters who were persuaded that a tour of duty in the USMC was just the ticket to give their lives direction and meaning.  The interviews they gave after finishing boot camp were chilling.  "When I came here," one of them said, "I was the sort of person who wouldn't hurt a fly.  Now I want to kill someone so bad I can taste it."  And his friends all nodded in agreement.  Sounds like a fine character-building experience!

[another recent grad]

While it has been a couple months since this debate occurred, I have just become aware of it and wanted o comment.

I believe that as a recent college grad, there are a number of problems in play. The first deals with the reason for an education. It has been argued that college is not a place for young people to mature or to prepare for a vocation. What then is its purpose? Some have suggested that it is to make well-rounded thinkers out of young people. However, I find it hard to believe that college nowadays accomplishes that. Multiple choice tests and a varying degree of difficulty among professors leads to the advance of cheaters, those looking to take the easy road, and those able to engage themslves to the extent of memorizing a text. Being a student who enjoyed challenging himself (sometimes to the minor deterioration of a high gpa), I often wondered if I was penalizing myself by doing so. Even if I were to concede the point that a college education does make one an educated thinker, is it necessary in the "real world"? I don't believe that the average position a college grad attains requires it. For every CEO, top lawyer, scientist, etc., there are a number of people who simply perform a daily algorythm known as work. They file, sort, calculate, etc. So if an education is ideal, it has produced an overqualified worker who is annoyed about that fact.

Secondly, I would like to ask if it is not a University's job to prepare one for the real world and it is not the job of a company to do so (since they can hire people who are already trained), whose jod is it? At this prospect many would suggest that internships are the vehicle through which higher education accomplishes this. If that is true, what is the point of all those classes we to pass?

Third, I believe that society and the way young people were raised is partially to blame. While growing up, and even during college and in this discussion many people assume that everything is ideal. For example, the idea of majoring in whatever you enjoyed and going into whatever field you enjoyed was put forth. However, during my high school years I recieved no exposure to non-basic subjects or perspective careers. I took the first class in what became my eventual major at the end of my first year of college on a whim. Well after taking a year or two to figure out a major, one must think about a career. Well, In this ideal everyone can become a doctor, lawyer, scientist. etc. So, students go about pursuing these goals. However, by the time they realize that they can't accomplish their goals or have been rejected from graduatte/professional school, they don't have time to formulate a backup plan. They certainly can't change major if they want to graduate on time. This leads to a disgruntled and inexperienced college grad who finds a job that s/he does not enjoy and the person is therfore unproductive.

The point of my argument is this: society expects young people to mastrer doing one thing for 21 years then expects to immediately change gears and complains if we stumble in the process. Meanwhile, they all pass the buck on who bears the responsibility of preparing us. If college is a place for well-rounded thinkers, then it should not be the entry level education for the job market. The simple reason being that not everone is meant to be that thinker nor is there a need for that in the "real world".

[JT]

another recent grad:
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Even if I were to concede the point that a college education does make one an educated thinker, is it necessary in the "real world"? I don't believe that the average position a college grad attains requires it. For every CEO, top lawyer, scientist, etc., there are a number of people who simply perform a daily algorythm known as work. They file, sort, calculate, etc. So if an education is ideal, it has produced an overqualified worker who is annoyed about that fact.
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I suppose that voting is another species of activity that requires no thought process.