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[almost phd]

I have done a lot of fieldwork overseas and really enjoy living abroad. In fact, the country I am studying for my dissertation is not widely known in the U.S. (However, I am in a social science discipline, not area studies.) As I think about strategies for my job search next fall, I am considering applying for jobs and maybe post-docs at universities in the UK, Australia, possibly even Singapore and Hong Kong. But I am concerned that if I take one of these positions, it would be hard to get back into American academia. I have heard that jobs at overseas universities are not seen as prestigious by many search committees here. Has anyone had experience with this?

[go for it]

You can come back but it might be a little harder. Go for it, if that's what you want to do. I have worked on 3 different continents and had interviews on all of them - still in the game.  :-)

[Euro]

This constant assumption and presumption that US universities are automatically better than RoW amazes me. Get real people.
Has anybody looked at the Times Higher Education Ranking 2005 recently? Peer review ranking, worldwide, teaching and research.
 Sure, the US is disproportionally represented at the top 10 level. But....
The UK is home to 24 of the top 200 universities, second only to the US with 54 and ahead of Australia, in third place with 17. Next is Netherlands with 10, France and Germany 9.

So, per million head
UK - 60/24 = 2.5
USA - 240/54 = 4.4
Oz - 22/17 = 1.3

Now, I seriously doubt that most hire committees in the USA could name 10 UK universities, not to mind Oz or Dutch.
Go , and when you come back, throw that on the table at Wherezat U? (Rank N/A).

[Senior Scholar]

Publish in internationally recognized journals, or with internationally recognized presses. If your work is good, no department in its right mind would say anything about the school at which you're currently working.

Do recognize, however, that many schools do not have the funds to fly people in for campus interviews from far away. If you're in the southern hemisphere, application letters to US universities or colleges that say you'll be in the US from November to March (or whatever the long vacation is) will ease everyone's mind about whether or not it will be possible to interview you.

And a phrase saying something on the order of "I'm currently teaching at university y, in the department of x, which is ranked by whoever as one of the top ten departments in the world for whatever your area is" would, of course, not hurt.

Once again, however, I suspect that R-1 schools are far more used to people who were born, studied, worked and so forth in other countries than smaller non-research-oriented departments. We did such heavy raiding of the former Soviet's math and physics departments after the wall came down that I suspect some committee meetings over in that building are conducted in Russian. And fifteen years ago the senior geneticist (herself a postwar refugee from Germany) told me she was going to have to learn Chinese in order to survive in the lab she was running.

[soon to be PhD]

Glad to hear those latest comments from 'Senior Scholar.' I have received similar advice that if I do take a job overseas, that I should make sure to keep publishing in top journals - to make my return to the states easier. As one person suggested, most departments are looking for someone that is still current with their research methods and can publish and bring in grant money - so if one is able keep that up while overseas, things should be okay.

I am also in the social sciences and looking at going to Hong Kong after my degree to teach. I am excited about the possibility of it but have been worried about the same things as "almost PhD" voiced.

thanks for the discussion.

[sidey]

soon to be PhD wrote:

> Glad to hear those latest comments from 'Senior Scholar.' I
> have received similar advice that if I do take a job overseas,
> that I should make sure to keep publishing in top journals - to
> make my return to the states easier.

Are you under some kind of strange impression that if you take a post 'overseas' that you WON'T be expected to publish in top journals?  They do do research 'over there' as well you know.

[ExPat in UK]

I'm an American working in the UK and I have to say that in my case my uni here has been much more supportive of my research than any of the university's where I worked in the States. It's probably due to the RAE, in that there is money attached to a publication record.

[Alison]

I think people assume that working in the States is good because the lifestyle is better.
For example, a lecturer at MMU in Cheshire would be struggling to afford to pay the rent on a grotty bed-sit in Crewe, wheras a lecturer in Texas could afford to pay for a house.
No, I am not a lecturer at MMU residing in Crewe - but you know what I mean.

[anon]

Actually I imagine most people reading this forum probably don't know what you mean. Most readers probably haven't got the foggiest what MMU stands for, or where in the world Crewe is. Perhaps you don't realize it, but this forum is primarily aimed at US academics who are considering working outside the US, not the other way around.

[%sig%]

[dover]

My experience in science: If your goal is to return to a R1 job, being outside of the country just isn't much of a consideration as long as you have the research status they're looking for.  I've known quite a few (research active) people who returned with no problems.

Even at my not-terribly-prestigious UK university, research support is excellent and teaching loads light, better than the types of positions I was offered in the US.  I'm in a better position than I would have been to "go back" to something better...but now that I'm here, I'm not sure I want to return.

[%sig%]

[science expat]

I agree with Dover. I came for a two year post-doc 11 years ago. The RAE really skews things but for a good researcher it can really work to your advantage in terms of teaching loads, admin, etc...

I would try to stay in touch with US colleagues; I go to a major conference in California every December.

[soon to be PhD]

That's good to hear, ExPat in UK.

I have heard from several friends in Hong Kong/China that they are opening many new programs and need professors, but to make sure that the new programs are certified by a board.

To answer "Sidey:" no, I wasn't under the impression that all work halts once overseas, but there is this sense that there would be more distraction as one tries to assimilate. I know from previous experience that I can spend a good amount of time my first 6 months in another culture – just getting the “basics” down. This period of transition also presents a “honeymoon” period – I just have to remember to keep up my work.

And like you two suggested, it could even be easier.

Thanks for the comments…

[soon to be PhD]

Thanks dover and expat science.... very encouraging to hear.

[Alison]

Anon's career failure and his/her inability to be polite....is there is link there do you think? I wouldn't know - I'm just a blonde.