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[otoh]

I've worked in England for a very short while and notice that it is the norm for students at our university to address teachers in person, or in third person, by first name.  At first I thought about correcting this. But then I noticed that when my American students (on short-term study here) use Dr or Prof. there is some evident discomfort among their English peers. It is as though Americans are perceived as affected and obsequious in genuflecting to their teacher.

Maybe this is the way of 60s universities in England. Maybe it is an indifferent norm, rather than a sign of disrespect or ignorance. But without polling my colleagues or eavesdropping in on their conversations, I cannot be sure.

What are your experiences?

[glaswegian babe]

I think there are a number of reasons for this - but you are right, the Brits don't like the formality that US students routinely employ.  It's partly because Professor is a title only conferred on very senior or very distinguished faculty over here and in America I used to be addressed as Professor when I was an adjunct at a community college!  They're not that comfortable with the Dr thing either - but I think this is a structural thing.  UK Universities were very different when I first moved here 20-odd years ago.  Many of them ran on the old tutorials systems, few had 'modularised' courses with continual assessment, which meant that there was necessarily a less 'institutionalised' relationship between tutor and pupil than there routinely is in an American 500-student Psych 101 class.  That may have influenced the sense of being uncomfortable with titles.  It might also be that the Phd was less common in University faculty here than in the US when I came over.  I was surprised when I first came to Oxford at how few of the faculty held doctorates - many of them at that point didn't.  I think they probably ALL do now, but certainly the older faculty members were often just bright sparks in their early years who got a congratulatory first and stayed on to teach.  They all had MAs but as most people know, you get an Oxford MA just by waiting 10 years after you get the BA...maybe that also made younger faculty/students feel it was presumptuous to address people as Dr.?  Don't know - totally guessing here!  But I remember one of the first notes I got from my supervisor at Wadham (only one in the English Faculty there at that time with Phd) said in a PS: "oh yes, and do drop the 'doctoring' if you like".  Knowing him I knew that meant 'cut it out!'

[%sig%]

[UK mister]

I'm a UK reader of this forum, and I can say that the reason why people feel uncomfortable with using titles is

   1) academic departments are VERY informal here, in terms of clothing (jeans/t-shirts the norm) and in general,
   2) England is class-obsessed, but it's pretentious to be loud about it. Although lecturers are supposed to be "upper middle class" the reality is that lecturers' salaries are average (£26,000 is the average annual salary in England and academics get £23000 onwards to £36,000 for professors). In fact school teachers probably earn more. Other occupations - PAs, corporate admin people, firefighters, heck a lot of other occupations earn that or more. So, sometimes the 'dr.' part can be bitter irony.
   3) maturity: I now think it's kind of infantile (sorry) to keep needing to distinguish oneself with a title. Also, being surrounded by people with doctorates means that it's really not that big a deal.
   4) UK departments are very research-oriented and often, apart from the autumn and winter terms, academics have NO contact with students. Teaching contact-times are also very limited for most. PhDs are usually part of the department, so the whole circle of people consists of doctorate holders or near-PhDs

I myself get quite embarassed about using my title for these reasons, and I'd say my colleagues feel the same. Outside work I sometimes use my title if I think it will help (it does), otherwise its Mr. for me.

[%sig%]

[science expat]

At my Uni in the UK it's first names at all levels - students to academic staff, and cleaners to the Vice Chancellor. Oh, you'll get the odd security person calling someone Prof. but I think they grow out of it.

Oddly, one of the few times I've been called Dr. was by the Magistrate in a traffic related court appearance. And I do have the title on my Driver's license on the theory that it can't hurt... It's also an article of faith that including your title in airline reservations improves your chances of being upgraded to business class.

[otoh]

Thanks for your responses and for these paradoxical, but probable, explanations. Most persuasive to me is the idea that in a country saturated by class, there is no need to belabour distinctions. On the other hand, it just may be the case that nowadays Americans are more concerned with class distinctions than Brits.

As for the "infantile" fixation on titles, others have defended their use in these forums. For instance: a title is what I earned, so I am presumablye interested in it; titles are used without self-consciousness by cops (PCs) and physicians (Doctors) and priests (Father), so I might as well avoid false modesty; a PhD is the highest degree one can earn, higher than MD; the title is a sign of professional pride and respect for higher learning; etc. These reasons are compelling to me, though they need to be adapted to a different cultural context.

[Expat in UK]

I find that in the academy no one will use the Dr. Mr. etc... yet everywhere else they demand to know your 'title'. I can't book a plane ticket with my first and last name... they HAVE to know my title... If I say Mary Jane Smith... I think get asked: is that Miss or Mrs. I mumble something along the lines of... 'erm... actually it's Dr.'

And being a US Southerner here NO ONE can get their head around the fact that yes, indeed I DO have TWO first names!!! LOL