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[yankee]

Can anyone tell me anything about working in New Zealand, either the course of a job search or the working environment, expectations for tenure, availability of grant money, how classes are conducted, etc.?  I'm applying for a job in science at a research institution, if that helps.  Thanks!

[%sig%]

[sidey]

Ok..

Job searches much more UK style than US style.

No such thing as tenure - they use the UK 'permanent' post system - you can be sacked if the university cuts funding or decides that they no longer wish to have a Dept of XXXXX.

Not a scientist, so can't comment on the grant situation, but expect to do a fair bit of teaching.  None of NZs Universities are Research intensive to the extent that you get a free ride in terms of teaching - unless it is a non-teaching post, of course.

[Carolina in UK]

I had a good friend who worked in New Zealand for a couple of years. He loved the experience but said that the money was extemely low. Even though the cost of living in NZ is very low it was difficult for him when he left because his savings as a percentage of his income weren't' really enough for him to come back to the States.

[Kiwi]

At least it looks like there will be a good government in New Zealand if election results hold up and the PLG coalition (progressive) wins power again. Couldnt be any worse in the US so why not join us?

[sidey]

You mean the same Labour led government that has systematically dismantled the NZ higher education sector over the past 15 years?

I don't think our Helen holds out much hope for the tertiary sector.

[yankee]

Thanks for the helpful comments!  I noticed on the web that Kiwi scientists are complaining about "brain drain" due to a lack of research funding.  This makes me worry that a position for which externally funded research is expected will be problematic.  I do not-very-lucrative basic science.  Is the funding situation more like Canada, where grants are small but numerous, or is it more like the U.S., where highly competitive large grants are the norm, and research schools expect everyone to raise much of their own salaries plus hefty indirect monies for the university (meaning that some people who do good research will be fired just for their bad luck at fund-raising)?  I would like to avoid a position where you must raise lots of money almost every year to be kept on but only the most fortunate and well-connected, or those in the glitziest fields, have a hope of doing so.

[%sig%]

[sidey]

AFAIK (and I've been away for a while)

Your salary as an academic is separate from grants - you'll stay employed and paid, but perhaps not be promoted, as long as you teach, etc.  Grants really are used for research projects, to fund research teams, postdocs, etc.

[TexasBoyinNZ]

I just took a job here in a liberal arts field.  I'm not as down on the research side of things, although one must use a little perspective. The universities here are small in size, salaries are not as good as in the US, and you will not get that many *huge* research grants. I tried to ask what sort of money was avaiable for junior professors start-up research budgets and was almost laughed at. However, at least in the social sciences, there is much less COMPETITION for grants from the government because there are so few universities. In the last year we have had multiple people receive grants of $US 100k or greater in a dept. of only 13. Our dept. gives us over $2000 a year automatically, but I am very confident I will get a pretty nice chunk in the next funding allotment. Too early to tell.

Compared to the major research institution I worked at before coming, it isn't that good. But compared to less intense places, including poorer Research I institutions, it probably isn't that bad.

Salaries are low, but finding consulting is an easy way to supplement your salary. It does seem to be true that they don't like you using grants to pay your salaries.

As far as teaching loads--again, 3 courses a year is pretty sweet for 95 percent of US universities, and the other 5% with as light or lighter loads have tons (ok, this is NZ so I should say "heaps") of pressure on them to get tenure and promotion. Tenure is not a worry here, and the first promotion is very easy.  With all the time you have, you should be able to supplement your salary as well as be productive with research. Of course, like anywhere, if you sit back and do nothing, you won't progress too much and you will not be marketable if and when you want to leave your job.

My bigger complaints have to do with the fact that post-grad students receive almost no training (certainly no formal coursework) in how to write their Ph.D.s in Aussie and NZ. Students are kind of lost. And there is pressure not to hire too many North Americans even if they are the best qualified for the available jobs. Not in the mood to open the debate of whether a British- or US-style system is better, but having seen 4 or 5 narrowly-trained and methodologically naive (but very nice!) Aussies come in for job interviews over the last 2 months, it's hard to remain objective. But I'm TRYING!! :D

[yankee]

Thanks for the information!  Unfortunately, I'm in a field where you basically need $100K of startup money.  If I should get a phone interview this is something I'll certainly have to ask about.

[Yank Now Kiwi]

You said you are applying for a job in a research institution.

I was a scientist and then a senior manager at one of NZ's research institutes for many years.

The good news is that these institutes are the core of most cutting-edge science research in NZ; universities would for the most part be comparable to second or third tier US universities.

The research institutes are well funded and pay better than universities here.  The funding system for these research institues is much different than in the U.S. - basically 70% of funds come from a NZ equivalent of the NSF.  The remaining funds come from a variety of contestable funds and commercial contracts.

If the institute thinks you're good enough for the job, you can be sure there's funding at least for a reasonable start-up time.  The institutes are very programme driven - they have no reason to hire you except for you to do research, write grants, publish, etc.

Be sure to ask about programme funding for your position, expectations in terms of grant writing, publishing, and commercialisation of your work (increasingly important to the science institutes here).

And remember that a NZ dollar here roughly buys you the same lifestyle as a US dollar does in the US.  A $100K job here is still viewed as a pretty reasonable job, in R&D or academia.

[yankee]

Sorry about the confusion; by "research institution" I meant a research-heavy university, not a non-teaching institute.  It doesn't pay any $100,000.  Actually, using your dollar for dollar comparison, it has what I would consider a tolerable salary.  But they take up to 39% off the top for taxes, don't they?  Is that factored into your cost of living estimation?

[Yank Now Kiwi]

OK.

No such thing in NZ as a research university - not by North American standards.  The best 2-3 NZ universities would be considered second or third tier in North America.  Except for a few unusual positions, nearly all academic jobs here would be classified as heavy teaching jobs in North America - at least by North American research university standards.

Top science professors earn as much as $100 - $140K, but they will typically be heads of departments or hold chairs of some kind.  At the other end, salaries start around $50 - $60K.  Beware - Kiwis find it very humorous to screw the new ex-pat - somteimes on salary, sometimes on workload.  Kind of an initiation rite.

All my salary figures are gross - there is income tax here, just as in North America.  That takes from 33% - 40% of your pay, but that includes all social security/state retirement contributions.  There is no regional or local taxes. except property tax if you own a house.  Some universities now make a modest contribution to your retirement fund, but that's pretty much it as far as fringe benefits go.  You want health insurance - you buy it yourself.  Not as expensive compared to the USA, but more requried than in Canada.

At the low-end, you will struggle to live decently in one of NZ's main cities, and especially in Auckland, where housing is exceptionally expensive.  If you are in one of the provincial centres, you will do fine.

Be prepared for humble laboratory and research conditions - by North American standards.  As I indicated in earlier message, the bulk of reasonable science research in NZ is done at several Crown research institutes.  They are better funded, winning the lion's share of contestable research funding.  You wouild be smart to seek an alliance with scientists in one or more of these institutes, if you come.

Top Kiwi scientists-to-be do their PhDs overseas - the universities here are just too small, with most depts struggling to cover the range of specialties in theoir discipline.  There are many talented Kiwi scientists who remain overseas - they cannot bring themselves to return to the relatively poor science scene here.

All of NZ is just a small town, with only small town resources available.  Despite this limitation, some scientists manage to scrape along and do some legitimate decent work.  Just don't expect the same standards here as in North America - because they are far lower.

[Yank Now Kiwi]

One more thought for you -

As a new scientist andnew in NZ it will be essential that you hook up with experienced science teams, probably in Crown research institutes, for research funding.

If you are not known in NZ, you will find it difficult to crack funding.

Science funds now tend to come in big blocks.  That's great for stability, but also means most money is tied up for long projects, working against newcomers.

[yankee]

Thanks for the further advice.  As fast as they seem to be moving on their search, the fact that I have not gotten a phone call yet suggests to me that I have not made the second cut.  You mention enough potential difficulties with the job to make me think that a "sour grapes" attitude to this might not be a bad idea.