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[David]

I will be finishing a masters degree in '06 in music performance (classical guitar).  My current options are to continue teaching privately while looking for a faculty position (very tough to find in the states and a DMA is becoming more of a necessary) which pays decently.  For the most part I think I could pull in 35,000 to 50,000 USD per year if I worked full time as a private teacher in Madison WI.  Right now though I'm thinking that I don't want to make a career out of private teaching, which is very tough to break out of with only a music degree.  So I am considering bypassing the DMA and applying to MBA programs and try to move into academic administration and eventually getting an Ed.D in Higher Ed Admin.  
Also I have studied and lived in Vienna for a short stint and think it would be wonderful to live in Europe again for a few years.  If any academic performing arts people have insight into the situation for music teachers/performers living in Europe with a degree from the states I would love to hear from you.

[%sig%]

[schoolmarm]

You may have to take a licensing exam and join the union depending on the country.  I'm in Munich right now, and there are plenty of musicians and plenty of gigs.  I am thinking that it would be tough for classical guitar.  I'm an organist and I am SOOOOO not good enough to compete here in Germany.  The bar is MUCH, MUCH higher.

Any other musicians out there?

I'll ask about the performing aspects at the archives tomorrow.  

There is horrible unemployment in Germany right now.  I don't know if there are musicians looking for work or whether it is unskilled labor looking for work.  (It is probably the professorate looking for work!!)  

Vienna and Salzburg are cool.  I've studied in both of them on a short-term basis and I understand your wanting to come back to the land that loves classical music.  

Making a living as a performer without another day job is tough.  You are smart to think about this now.

[%sig%]

[Been There]

David:

Just diving in as a freelancer in Europe is really, really tough, especially, I imagine, on a "tough" instrument like classical guitar (no orchestra gigs, and I gather you don't want to play in an 80s rock cover band). I lived for many years as a freelancer (classical string player) in Germany, and although I did make a living for awhile, it was uphill all the way. I would never have been able to do it if I wasn't married to a German (who has a full-time job) and didn't speak German fluently.

The social welfare system here is complex -- in order to reap any benefit from it, though, you will have to have a work permit, which (unless you're married to a local) is next to impossible to get as a freelancer. You would literally have to prove to the immigration officials that your presence in Germany makes a substantial contribution to the artistic life of the Federal Republic. No offence: Segovia might have pulled that off, but hardly anyone else. If you want to just pop up and gig w/o papers (some people do) that might work for awhile, but if you get caught it will be expensive, and they might throw you out.

Your American degrees, unless you have a PhD from the Ivy League, will be met with polite shoulder-shrugging.  As the previous poster suggested, there are many, many un- and underemployed colleagues here, most with fancy sounding diplomas.

The cost of living is higher here, mostly, than in most American college towns.  Cheap rental housing is hard to come by in desirable cities (except Berlin).

What I describe here ought to be true for most other EU countries.

If you absolutely must come, then come as some sort of student. For the time being that still doesn't cost much tuition, will get you legal status, and some sort of netwiork.

It is true, though, that by American standards there is lots and lots of High Culture to be found here, but unless you are very, very determined and entrupeneurial, it will be a rough ride. I bet there are plenty of your guitar colleagues here who would trade what little they have for what you describe in Madison in a flash.

Good luck!

B.T.

[anon]

i'd look for fellowships and related programs.   also instead of a dma, why not get a ph.d. in music education.

[David]

Yes Ive also looked into a great program here at UW Madison which is an Education Ph.D in Curriculum and Instruction with an emphasis on Music Ed.  It looks very attractive to me as well...

The fellowship idea is a great one also, thank you.

to schoolmarm and Been there, thank you for the wonderful insight.  Its very helpful in my decision making process.  I may have to put the idea to bed for a few years...

David

[schoolmarm]

David,

I asked my colleagues at the archives about the employment rate of musicians and they just shook their heads.  Many are unemployed or underemployed.  You have to have a certificate or pass a test to be a professional musician in Germany.  And gigs are highly competitive.

Music education is my field.  If you are contemplating Madisons PhD, please know that you will need three years of teaching in public schools in order to be an attractive candidate for any music ed job that involves the preparation of teachers.  There is a crying need for methods professors right now.  It's tougher with just the theoretical background.  You may want to pick up a teaching certificate before you start the PhD. Most school districts are hesitant to hire a teacher with no teaching experience and advanced degrees.  There are some great profs over in Madison.  I was on a short list for a job that was pulled for budget reasons.  

The GAMA (Guitar Association) puts on a great workshop at Lake Geneva about teaching guitar in general music.  You might want to look into it, if you haven't already.

Best of luck,
Schoolmarm

[%sig%]

[David]

Thank you for all the wonderful advice.  I am currently studying for the GMAT and will probably apply to business schools next year.  I think my true desires lead me towards continuing as a performing musician while teaching a small amount of dedicated private students, while moving towards a job in administration in some respect.  Im starting to realize how tough of a field this is!

[curious]

In your original post, you said you were considering looking for a faculty position.  Why not do the DMA?

(I'm asking out of idle curiosity only; if the MBA is what you want then you should do it and not look back--having just finished the DMA myself, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone who wasn't absolutely wedded to the idea of becoming a professor.)

[David]

very good question... believe me I have bee thinking about this nonstop this summer.

One thing to realize, as Im sure you play a different inst., is that my instrument is classical guitar and full time faculty positions are VERY few and far between.  I read an article by a violin DMA that was having a time trying to find a full time position even after six years and was contemplating a JD.  His reasoning was that even if he found a position he would feel bad about finding students to send out into budget cutting academe knowing they would also face the same situation.

Secondly, financial issues.  I went to a private college/conservatory for my BM and even though Im funded for my masters am still looking at over 30 in student loans with interest.  couple that with an aging mother who I need/want to help retire and an adjunct faculty salary doesnt seem very promising.

Lastly, a career in Higher Ed Admin. really does look interesting and rewarding to me moreso than just financially.

I still have yet to discuss this in depth with my prof. and nothing is final yet...:(

[%sig%]

[anon]

David,  a DMA is totally worthless.  Definitely do not pursue that option.  One difficulty with this program is that even though there are no jobs to be had, administrators still view the DMA as a "professional" as opposed to research degree. For this reason, many Universities do not fund DMA students (or at least do not fund them at a level anywhere near Ph.D. students) and the Conservatories that offer doctoral study don't have any money to begin with for anyone.  Northwestern, for example, offers most doctoral students a 3/4 tuition waiver.  So, you have to still pay 1/4 of their astronomical tuition.  But here's the kicker: That INCLUDES your work as a TA.  Yep, you heard right, you work as a TA and STILL have to pay tuition.  Totally outragous that these people are exploiting individuals for profit while flooding an already crowded market.  I've got the stats on all 75 doctoral music programs in the US but won't go into any more detail on specifics....just say that I came to a similar conclusion about all.

The violin teacher you've mentioned (I read this article also) is by no means a rare bird.  One of my friends has applied to over 300 TT positions since 1998 in comp or guitar (Composition Ph.D. with good guitar chops also) and gotten one phone interview. Another individual I used to work with finally got a TT position after eight years on the market and over 275 applications.  (He'd had two other interviews asside from the position he received, which was a last minute hire in a VERY undesireable area of the country for next to no money.)  I could go on and on about people with good credentials and tons of unsucessful applications. They're not anecdotal exceptions. This is a systemic problem of too many graduates for too few positions.

[David]

Thans for the advice but the problem for me is not funding... I am on fellowship for my masters and have been all but guaranteed funding for a DMA...

I am looking at long term here...  I know I could do fairly well as a music teacher/possible adjunct/performer/recording engineer (basically all the things we musicians do)

But like the violin guy said, I can see the writing on the wall.  So I've decided to pursue the MBA for security sake.  I will get a DMA someday I think, and if I would have known sooner I would have not entered an MM program, gotten an MBA, and then finished a DMA.

But hindsight is...

[curious]

Hmmm...anon makes some good points.

I wouldn't say the DMA is "totally worthless;" I now have a DMA and a job, whereas had I foregone the degree I would certainly have neither.  (Of course, I might have won an orchestra job or some other position in the meantime with all the extra practicing I could have done instead of writing my document, but I would never have been considered for my current job.)  It's just that the DMA's very narrow utility makes it a poor investment of time and money for anyone who does not specifically aspire to an academic career.

It's absolutely true, though, that the DMA is not a well-supported degree.  I was a TA, teaching a full studio of lessons with no office, virtually no pay, and a mountain of student loans to cover the tuition I still had to pay.  The benefits were the time i got to spend studying with my applied teacher, the experience of teaching college students, and not least the credential that has made me at least marginally more employable.

[leigh limbrick]

hello,i am a 31 yr old bassist based in brighton,england uk,if anyone may need one or would be interested in private,relaxed lessons please contact me.Also,if anyone would like a chat or a jam,any style,ive been playing in bands for about 16 yrs
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