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[profxfiles]

  So anyone who tries to badmouth online programs simply suffers from not knowing enough about them. They are probably the old farts who aren't that skilled with computers anyway.  Its time to leave the stoneage behind and step into a virtual classroom.
Kristina

Do yourself a favor and actually read the entire thread before insulting the critics of on-line programs. The fact that you clearly did not read the thread only serves to undercut any sort of argument you are trying to make. This issue under discussion is whether or not an on-line degree has value in academia, not among your friends at the grocery store or getting a job at Wal-mart. Of course your on-line MA has value among people who just see the letters and don't know anything about the quality of the program. I am sure I could get an on-line MD for $49.95 and lots of people would take it for granted I knew medicine, at least until I tried to perform brain surgery on them. While I do not think Capella is the same as a diploma mill, I also think that such degrees only have significant value outside of the field of education. There is a reason you cannot get K-12 teaching certification on-line--teachers understand you need that on-campus experience.

I know more than you do about on-line programs and trust me, I would NEVER even consider hiring someone with an on-line degree at my university. I have yet to meet someone with an on-line degree that received comparable training to a bricks and mortar school, and I have met dozens of on-line degree holders. This is not a slam on them as people, they simply do not receive the socializing that comes from the on-campus experiences and it kills them in job interviews every time.


PS. For the record, I build my own computers and do programming--I am way past the Stone Age and I still think the virtual classroom is a very poor substitute for the real thing.

[twofish]

While I do not think Capella is the same as a diploma mill, I also think that such degrees only have significant value outside of the field of education. There is a reason you cannot get K-12 teaching certification on-line--teachers understand you need that on-campus experience.

Actually you can....

http://www.online-distance-learning-education.com/

There is a practical and probation component to these programs.  I believe that you need an "in-class" experience, but not necessarily an "on-campus" one.

[profxfiles]

There is a practical and probation component to these programs.  I believe that you need an "in-class" experience, but not necessarily an "on-campus" one.

Point taken--according to my colleagues in the Ed school, the real issue is apparently whether or not a state will accept on-line accreditation ... but that, frankly, is WAY out of my range of expertise.

[twofish]

The situation in academia is that if you have anything in your record that looks different, then your application is probably doomed.  However, I consider that a problem with academia rather than a problem with the student.  You probably won't get tenure-track with an online degree, but realistically, your odds of getting tenure-track with a brick and mortar degree aren't that great either.  A good rule of thumb, is that anyone going into a Ph.D. program should expect that their degree is *totally useless* to get employment.

In the corporate world, employers are far more flexible because the supply/demand ratio is different.  Also as far as software goes, getting a degree from anywhere says that you have basic literacy and work habits.

Socialization is the key to education, but I've seen good socialization online, and I've seen bad socialization with brick and mortar.  Online education and education in general is one of those things that is much harder than it looks.

[alex28]

Hi:

I will complete my Phd in a Hybrid mode (online and on Campus). University accreditation is more important for me when making hiring decisions. You can study at the best university in the world and there are always people out there that will not be happy.

[which2choose]

I am looking at both traditional schools, (decent name programs in NJ) and also Capella or Nova.   I want to become a school principal, and eventually a superintendent.  I am fairly young, 30 (Soon), but have young children at home.  I am currently a teacher.

 I am going to apply to the traditional programs, but also think the ease of not having to leave my house and being able to do my work at night would be much more beneficial for me and my family, which is why I will consider the on-line program.  I am also anxious to start and I missed most of the deadlines for matriculation in the fall, but at Capella I could start next month.  I also think I can finish in less than three years.  Nova Southeastern University even offers a two year sequence for about half the price as Capella.  A traditional school will likely be 4 years or so.  I already have my Master's from Saint Peter's College and Bachelor's from Rutgers University. 

I have a supervisor who said to me (right now I am still a teacher) that she would think someone who took the on-line degree 'took the easy way out.'  However, school administration jobs are VERY competitive, but very few candidates have doctoral level degrees.  I want to do this to enhance my education, complete a significant study/dissertation, but more than anything else, to get the upper hand when seeking these types of jobs. 

On the other hand, my father hires people for a local energy company and said he doesn't care where the degree is from.  In fact, he recently hired a woman with a MBA from Phoenix, basically because she had the MBA.  Also I have a colleague/boss who has completed the PH.D. from Capella.  He said it was great, and he has had other opportunities as a result.  He was not explicit in letting me know what they were.  He said in talking with people who compelted traditional programs, he feels he missed the daily lectures and class discussions, but otherwise it was fine for him. 

It is such a mixed bag of opinions, but I do think as more and more programs go on line and more students complete programs from schools such as Capella they will only increase in their acceptance.  I do not plan to obtain a professor/TT type of position, although I think being an adjunct or CC professor may be something I would like to do 15 years from now. 

Any opinions on any of this? 

[sibyl]

I think in some ways you are very well positioned to benefit from an online degree.  You are presumably going to do the work part-time while remaining actively employed.  In some environments (rural areas especially) there may be no other way for you to complete a doctorate.  Your supervisor is probably right that you would lose badly in a competition against someone with a doctorate from a brick-and-mortar school, but if you're competing against people with master's degrees then your online doctorate may actually help you get better jobs. 

I'm not surprised that your father has similar things to say in his industry.  The combination of practical experience and additional study is very appealing to most employers.  I am pretty sure he would be more likely to hire a Stanford MBA than a Phoenix MBA, but he can pay the Phoenix MBA a lot less money than the Stanford MBA, which will make him happy.  And the Phoenix MBA is making more than she used to, so everybody wins.

I think that academia is going to remain one of the most resistant industries to online education.  There are so many bricks-and-mortar degrees out there that there's no competitive need to hire from online schools, and higher education is most likely to demand the experiences and benefits of face-to-face classroom exchanges. 

[zharkov]

Nova has been around for a while; Capella is one of the new kids on the block.

I'd lean toward Nova on those grounds. 

Also, make sure that getting an online degree will be accepted in the state where you want to be a principal.  There are often professional bodies and accreditors who need to OK a given program for it to accepted in a given locale.  For example, in some states, only programs accredited by the American Psychological Association are accepted for a person with a PhD in psych to get licenses.  A person with a PhD from a non APA program would not be allowed to get a license.

[which2choose]

Since I earned my master's from a B&M already, I am already a licensd supervisor and principal.  Eventually I will want to gain the Chief School Administrator, or Superintendent license.  My school district told me they will cover the online course work as long as it is accredited. 

 I am going to apply to a few schools, but I do have the desire to try out the Capella program as I like their course descriptions/titles and what I woudl seem to gain from the education.   BUt, given the costs and all, I am not going to TRY it unless I plan to finish it there.
Also, saving time and money in going to class all the time woudl be great too.  Residencies may make it a wash though.

It is funny, because when I spoke to the enrollment counselor he was saying, "Having a Ph.D is better than an Ed.D, and I would hate to see you lose out on a job opportunity if you were up against an Ph.D, but you only had an Ed.D (from another institution.  But, I am thinking if my Ph.D was from an online school, I bet the potential employer would hire the traditionaly educated person.  But then again, having same licenses, I think it would go to the better candidate.  Or, having the doctorate would be better than not having it or being up against someone who didn't have one.

[which2choose]

Since I earned my master's from a B&M already, I am already a licensed supervisor and principal.  Eventually I will want to gain the Chief School Administrator, or Superintendent license.  My school district told me they will cover the online course work as long as it is accredited. 

 I am going to apply to a few schools, but I do have the desire to try out the Capella program as I like their course descriptions/titles and what I would seem to gain from the education.   But, given the costs and all, I am not going to TRY it unless I plan to finish it there.
Also, saving time and money in going to class all the time would be great too.  Residencies may make it a wash though.

It is funny, because when I spoke to the enrollment counselor he was saying, "Having a Ph.D is better than an Ed.D, and I would hate to see you lose out on a job opportunity if you were up against an Ph.D, but you only had an Ed.D (from another institution."
  But, I am thinking if my Ph.D was from an online school, I bet the potential employer would hire the traditionally educated person.  But then again, having the same licenses, I think it would go to the better candidate.  Or, having the doctorate would be better than not having it or being up against someone who didn't have one.

[zharkov]

Since I earned my master's from a B&M already, I am already a licensed supervisor and principal.  Eventually I will want to gain the Chief School Administrator, or Superintendent license.  My school district told me they will cover the online course work as long as it is accredited. 

 I am going to apply to a few schools, but I do have the desire to try out the Capella program as I like their course descriptions/titles and what I would seem to gain from the education.   But, given the costs and all, I am not going to TRY it unless I plan to finish it there.
Also, saving time and money in going to class all the time would be great too.  Residencies may make it a wash though.

It is funny, because when I spoke to the enrollment counselor he was saying, "Having a Ph.D is better than an Ed.D, and I would hate to see you lose out on a job opportunity if you were up against an Ph.D, but you only had an Ed.D (from another institution."
  But, I am thinking if my Ph.D was from an online school, I bet the potential employer would hire the traditionally educated person.  But then again, having the same licenses, I think it would go to the better candidate.  Or, having the doctorate would be better than not having it or being up against someone who didn't have one.

Having a doctorate is better than none.

A PhD trumps an EdD for teaching in a research university, and in many teaching colleges, but the difference melts in K-12 education

A bricks and mortar degree trumps a non traditional degree trumps an online degree.  That will eventually change, IMHO.

Experience and licenses are also important, of course.

IMHO, an experienced, licensed person with an online doctorate would be competitive.  But double double check you can get that Superintendent license with the online degree you are considering.

[twofish]

But then again, having same licenses, I think it would go to the better candidate.  Or, having the doctorate would be better than not having it or being up against someone who didn't have one.

Something you might want to do is to look at the educational background of people having jobs that you are interested in applying for, and that give you a quick check for what background you need.  Also, it might be a good idea if you can see if the schools you are applying to will give you some references to alumni who have gotten their degrees and are trying to do what you are doing.

There's also one other advantage of online programs in that they allow of "out of hierarchy" mentorship.  If you go to a local brick and mortar program, then it is harder to get a mentor because most of the people who serve as mentors are or could be in a supervisory position, and this creates conflict of interest issues.  If you go to an online program, you are more likely to be able to socially interact with someone senior to you, but who has no conflict of interest issues because they live in another part of the country or are in a completely different field.
 
The trouble with information from enrollment counselors is, aside from the conflict of interest, that often it is too general to be useful.  The information from alumni often is of the nature, yes the degree was useful but I found that I had to do X, Y, and Z and not do A, B, and C.

[goingcrazy]

I think that the point is that right now the couple of on-line graduate colleges are still not respected in the field of academia. You may get a good education but it will not matter if you cannot get hired.

[which2choose]

Even after more extensive searching for information on Capella's graduates' success it is very hard to find out what the graduates are up to.  Some have found jobs at Community Colleges, but I can not find many principals, VP's, deans, superintendents, or the like, of public school systems that used Capella.  I know there are some/many out there, I just wish they were more vocal about their successes.  Many are indeed writing fine dissertations, as noted by searching the UMI dissertation database.  There were more issued from Capella last year than all the traditional universities I searched combined.

There is the article that quotes the AASA Chairperson, who says "Superintendents are too wise to hire someone educated online into an administrative position" but he is really referring about the Master's levels. 

Again, I completed my B.A. and M.A. at traditional schools, but feel an Ed.D or Ph.D will allow me to propel my career into the fastlane and being so young I can have a full lifetime of benefit from obtaining this type of degree.  I am going to apply to some traditional schools, but have my eye on three programs at Capella. 


What is the rate of tuition increase at Capella?  I also worry that betwen now and the next 2-3 years the tuition could continue to skyrocket, rendering it too much money.  It is almost too much money now, for a non-NCATE approved school.   

Still wondering,
Which2choose

[aandsdean]

  It is almost too much money now, for a non-NCATE approved school.   

Still wondering,
Which2choose

I have a feeling that this last sentence is the key to all the rest--as NCATE accreditation is the gold standard in education schools, a non-NCATE-accredited doctorate is pretty likely not to be worth nearly as much as one from a school that has that accreditation, regardless of any other factor.

It's something to keep in mind before making a huge investment of time, money, and energy.