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[rattus domesticus]

A community college in a desirable metro area asked me to interview. That's good. They won't foot the bill for my travel, but say they'll give me a $100 stipend. That's bad. And they've only given me days (!) to make arrangements -- which means I would have to cancel classes a week before finals (!) and pay even more than usual for travel (about $600). And the HR person tells me that I'll have to take a taxi the 30 miles from the airport; they don't have a committee or staff member able to pick me up.

The real problem here is that the HR person won't tell me whether they have a strong internal candidate OR how many people they're interviewing. That's bad. And she won't let me talk to anyone on the committee. I expected that.

Here's what bothers me. A colleague of mine calls someone they know there and finds that they are interviewing 11 candidates--and do have strong internal candidates.

So how is it fair that this community college is asking candidates to pay their own travel and interview when it seems as if they are just "filling the pool"? My colleagues' contact said I would have a "small chance" if I went -- so I admit that it is a chance, but I feel angry that committee members or their advocates can't even give candidates a hint to avoid wasted time and money out of their pockets.

[Retain the Null]

In cases were the school pays all travel expenses, I think they have a right to secrecy. However, if you are being asked to foot the bulk of the bill, the game changes. I would be visibly angry if 600 were spent only to discovery that 10 other "candidates" were in the running. To me that sounds more like a beauty pageant than a job interview!

[anon]

I understand your frustration.  The same thing happened to me last year.  I reserved the ticket, and just before paying for it, I decided it wasn't worth the risk. I withdrew my application, was unemployed for a few months, and then something nuch better happened to me.  

If I had to do it all over again, I would never apply to any CC ever again, unless you really want to only teach, and need less money to live on.  In my case, I have much debt to repay, and cannot afford to work at a CC.

[Selene]

A fool and his/her money are soon parted.

[Curious]

So what's the upshot, Rattus?  I hope (and expect) that you're going to tell them to get bent.

[anon]

life isn't fair.  It's up to you to be smart, and not waste your money and time on something that is so risky and uncertain.

[case insensitive]

Doesn't sound to me like this place is likely to treat you very well...  Run, don't walk, away!

[Sweetheart]

Agreed on the crappy treatment in regards to the search.  However, let's not paint with too broad a brush:  the CC I teach at pays better than the R-2 and R-1 schools right here in town, plus we're unionize (neither of them are), and we have better benefits.

[anon]

         I have found this to be a very common scenario in community college hiring practices-- and regardless of how the CC HR depts. rationalize this, it is outrageous, unprofessional and unjustifiable.

      If the CC has internal candidates and is interviewing more than 3-4 applicants, than they should be required to disclose these details to applicants who are being asked to pay their own expenses--  which often amount to upwards of $1000 for out of town candidates who have to pay for overpriced air-fare ( due to offers for interviews that are made on very short notice), overnight lodging ( if you are flying in from out of town it is often impossible to find a flight that arrives in time to make it to an interview at noon, etc.) and rental cars to campus, since CC's are not even professional or considerate enough to offer to help arrange transportation to the college.

       My partner currently teaches at a CC and I am ashamed at the appalling and callous nature of their hiring process.  
   

         It ought to be illegal to invite qualified candidates for interviews "just to fill out the pack."   Yanking candidates around this way may not be criminal, but certainly, it is unethical.  
   
     CC's also should be exposed and lambasted for inviting highly qualified candidates who have been painstakingly selected, based on their professional backgounds, recommendations and accomplishments, from a pool of 100s of applicants-- to interview at their own expense.

        How CC's have evolved such demeaning and execrable hiring practices is beyond me....

[rattus domesticus]

I turned down the interview. I didn't mention that I'd e-mailed a professor in the department and the department chair (and received bland non-information) -- or that my colleague got some real information from someone in the department that blew the whistle on "the real deal." This person was also shocked that his department would cull applications from out-of-staters and NOT pay for travel...

[Fiona]

Good for you, rattus, in refusing the whole thing. You deserve much better.

[%sig%]

[arty]

This is why I  stopped applying to out-of-close-driving-distance community college jobs.  The math didn't work for me.

[boyo]

When I read the outrage some of you express, I have to laugh... reading most of the posts herte I came to the conclusion that most of you are simply clueless... also, you probably have nevber been tasked with putting together a qualified faculty on short notice and poor funding...

CCs certainly neglect the niceties of job searches... so what... why on earth would some of you suggest that they be held to greater scrutiny than 4-year colleges???

So what if they are interviewing 11 candidates... what, they don't have the right to go after the best candidate???  Do you have any idea how many qualified candidates apply to CCS with little intention of taking the job, or more often, as a back up, while they wait for a job from a "real" college... they accept interview slorts, and sometimes jobs, only to renege at the last minute... this happens more often than you imagine..

Some gems...
"If the CC has internal candidates and is interviewing more than 3-4 applicants, than they should be required to disclose these details to applicants who are being asked to pay their own expenses"

This is not only impractical, it would be unprofessional... would you expect coilleges that interview at the MLA to do the same... no.


"It ought to be illegal to invite qualified candidates for interviews "just to fill out the pack."

Perhaps it should also be illegal for candidates to apply for jobs they aren't going to take... yes that would be a stupid law, about as stupid as the one suggested above...

"The real problem here is that the HR person won't tell me whether they have a strong internal candidate OR how many people they're interviewing.  And she won't let me talk to anyone on the committee."

How about if she made judgements about your suitability for the job, and emailed it out to a few dozen other candidates??? She isn't making the decision, so it is not her call whehter someone is a "strong" candidate or not...


whan I read these kind of complaints, it surprises me.. though I guess that it shouldn't.. some of you rtreally, really have no idea of how to run a search, much less a department of college...  if only you had to be on the other end of the table, actually responsible to fill all those positions... you might reconsider some of the crap you throw out there as criticism...

[Oh, boyo]

The point that you seem to be missing, boyo, is that no one is suggesting that CCs are "held to greater scrutiny that 4-year colleges."  Do you know of ANY four-years colleges that would invite ELEVEN people for an interview, making them all pay their own way?  No way.  In the described scenario, the CC SC is acting they way that only a top Ivy could (but note that even Ivies don't treat their applicants this poorly, though they could probably get away with it).

Look, we all know CCs have it rough.  But suggesting that it's acceptable for them to ask ten people to blow a huge amount of money for little good reason is ridiculous.  And, I dare say, is going to keep CCs from getting the type of respect that many of them deserve.

boyo wrote:

>
>
> When I read the outrage some of you express, I have to laugh...
> reading most of the posts herte I came to the conclusion that
> most of you are simply clueless... also, you probably have
> nevber been tasked with putting together a qualified faculty on
> short notice and poor funding...
>
> CCs certainly neglect the niceties of job searches... so
> what... why on earth would some of you suggest that they be
> held to greater scrutiny than 4-year colleges???
>
> So what if they are interviewing 11 candidates... what, they
> don't have the right to go after the best candidate???  Do you
> have any idea how many qualified candidates apply to CCS with
> little intention of taking the job, or more often, as a back
> up, while they wait for a job from a "real" college... they
> accept interview slorts, and sometimes jobs, only to renege at
> the last minute... this happens more often than you imagine..
>
> Some gems...
> "If the CC has internal candidates and is interviewing more
> than 3-4 applicants, than they should be required to disclose
> these details to applicants who are being asked to pay their
> own expenses"
>
> This is not only impractical, it would be unprofessional...
> would you expect coilleges that interview at the MLA to do the
> same... no.
>
>
> "It ought to be illegal to invite qualified candidates for
> interviews "just to fill out the pack."
>
> Perhaps it should also be illegal for candidates to apply for
> jobs they aren't going to take... yes that would be a stupid
> law, about as stupid as the one suggested above...
>
> "The real problem here is that the HR person won't tell me
> whether they have a strong internal candidate OR how many
> people they're interviewing.  And she won't let me talk to
> anyone on the committee."
>
> How about if she made judgements about your suitability for the
> job, and emailed it out to a few dozen other candidates??? She
> isn't making the decision, so it is not her call whehter
> someone is a "strong" candidate or not...
>
>
> whan I read these kind of complaints, it surprises me.. though
> I guess that it shouldn't.. some of you rtreally, really have
> no idea of how to run a search, much less a department of
> college...  if only you had to be on the other end of the
> table, actually responsible to fill all those positions... you
> might reconsider some of the crap you throw out there as
> criticism...

[Oh-- boyo]

> So what if they are interviewing 11 candidates... what, they
> don't have the right to go after the best candidate???<<


    Yes--- and after carefully scrutinizing the hundreds of applications and finding the best candidates, it is nonsensical that they would be unwilling to pay for the candidates expenses.  

      >> why on earth would some of you suggest that they be
> held to greater scrutiny than 4-year colleges???
>
     
    No has suggested that CC's hiring process be more curteous or more closely scrutinized than 4 yr college's.  4 yr. colleges don't invite their best applicants to fly in and interview at their own expense.  Nor do they interview 10 or more candidates in 45 minutes slots.  

       They also have the professional wisdom to understand that you don't screen for the best candidate by requiring robotically scripted interviews that preclude any form of conversation.