next »

[Dignaga]

I just got an offer for a TT position in the humanities at a research university.  The chair said that the initial offer was "non-negotiable" because their initial offer was already as much as a couple of the Assistant Profs in the department who have been there for two years are making.  And furthermore, he said that that's all the Dean has to give me.

Is there really such a thing as a "non-negotiable" offer in academia?  I was expecting more, in part because the job is in a very expensive urban area.  And unfortunately, I don't have any other schools on the horizon that might give me a counter-offer to drive up my price.  My only real bargaining power is to bluff, to pretend that I'd really consider staying at my current job at a rural liberal arts college.  (And there's no way my current employer would be able to get anywhere near to matching the offer of this urban research university.)

[Zarkov]

Claiming that something is "non-negotiable" is, in itself, a common negotiating tactic.  The key is to obtain some objective data for you to negotiate with.

Have you checked the AAUP data set, available here at the Chron's website?

And/or, if it is a public U, then its librarian should be able to provide or direct you to the salary data for recent hires.

PS:  Read Getting to Yes.

PPS:  Some public Us do have set starting pay, but verify that, don't take anyone's word.

[clean]

There are indeed 'non-negotiable' offers.   I am in a business college and the last person we hired in my department tried to negotiate a higher number.  They had done a lot of research on our own sites and in our own library.  They found that the salary that was offered was the same as the offer the last hire was give two full years earlier.  The candidate tried to reason a higher salary.  The dean quashed that quickly.  That was the offer and it was not a negotiating point.  It was all that the provost was willing to approve.  

(They took the deal.)

So there are certainly 'take it or leave it' offers.


If you are not happy with the offer, could you use it as leverage to get SOMETHING from your current employer?  They may not match it, but they may be able to do something that would entice you to stay.

If you want to play hardball, tell them, "I have an offer for X (the truth, by the way!!) but I like it here, and I dont want to go through the hassle of moving, so I would be willing to stay for W.  What can you do for me?"

If they go for it, you get a raise.  IF they dont, you still get a raise, and a new job to boot.  

Of course, you have to be willing to stay... think about why you went on the market in the first place.

Advice worth twice what you paid for it!

Clean

[been there]

Dignaga wrote:

>
> Is there really such a thing as a "non-negotiable" offer in
> academia?  

I just turned down an offer like this.  The chair was very up-front about the fact that this was the offer.  No matter what bargaining chip I had the offer was the offer.  They wouldn't budge on anything from salary, moving help, computers, start-up, you name it, it was take it or leave it.  In the end it wasn't enough so I left it.  I did like the place, but......

[clean]

Z posted while I was typing...

You clearly should know what you are worth... your market value... before you enter the job market, much less before you enter negotiations!  

(You wouldnt walk onto a car lot and offer $30K for a used car before you even looked at the sticker price, much less other car lots would you?)

Do the research.... but even if you do, you may find that the dean is unwilling or unable to negotiate.

Remember, they really dont have a whole lot to gain by bringing you in at slave/below market wages.  It is not their money,  they dont get a bonus by 'cutting costs',  and if you find or feel that they have taken advantage of you, you will leave.  I can think of few things in life worse than re-entering the job market on either side of the table!

[anon]

You betcha that some positions are non-negotiable.  However, even if salary isn't negotiable, you might be able to negotiate other things.

[asst prof]

Anon is absolutely right.  

Many offers are indeed non-negotiable - at least the basic salary part. But there may be other things that you can negotiate that don't necessarily cost your dept. chair. - anything from start up costs, research assistance, teaching load, teaching schedule.  

Bluffing can be potentially disastrous if you really do want the job. Before considering any ultimatum, ask yourself what would really make a difference to you in choosing to take the job or not?

What the chair is referring to about offering a starting salary that equals the salary of longer serving asst. profs is sometimes called "salary compression" - when market pressure for higher salaries for new asst. profs. erodes the distinction between, say, asst. prof. and assoc. prof. salaries. This can be a major headache for budget-strapped depts./colleges that are trying to bring in good young blood without causing an insurrection from their mid-career faculty.

[Seeker]

To echo anon and asst prof: I recently accepted a position at  a public university where the salary was presented as completely non-negotiable (I had other offers, but all were much lower, so I couldn't really leverage those). However, the dean was very flexible on other components of my start-up package, and in negotiating, I more than doubled my moving budget and research start-up, and also secured two summers of summer funding.  So if there are other things you would be happy with (faculty housing, good moving package, etc.), ask for those instead of for salary changes.

[anon2]

Unless you're a "star," don't bluff or give ultimatums if you really want a particular position.

[anon]

If a place is not negotiating, you probably do not want to be there.  It is clear and present sign of significant and ongoing fiscal problems.   You might get the job, and not get any raises for several years, or you might get the job, decide to pursue grants and find out that they take a significant portion of the granted monies and reallocate it.   in any case, the capacity for negotiation is also a sign of good management, I don't want to be managed by a person that puts down the way it is and makes me follow... do you?

[clean]

Perhaps I am looking at this with too much naïveté.

Perhaps it is not as the last poster said, "If a place is not negotiating, you probably do not want to be there. It is clear and present sign of significant and ongoing fiscal problems."

Perhaps they dont want to loose you and they have put all on the cards on the table.  This IS everything that we have to offer.  There is nothing more to negotiate, because there IS NO more.  From the original post, it seems that the offer is much superior to the current position.

Are all jobs adversarial?  It seems to me that the dean is trying to keep the peace and be “fair” because as OP said, “because their initial offer was already as much as a couple of the Assistant Profs in the department who have been there for two years are making.”  Is it a “fair” wage?  What more are you asking for?


clean

[boyo]

It all comes down to how much you need a job...

When negotiating, both sides (internally) establish a walk-away price... that is, the figure beyond (or below) which you will go

for them: the real limit of what they will offer you,
for you: the lowest deal that you are willing to accept...

you will ask for more than you would accept, they will offer less than they are willing to pay...

The more choices you have, the higher your walk-away price... the more choices they have, the lower their price....

So, ask yourself if the current offer is in your range, or below your walk-away price... Of course, you won't know their walk-away figure, so that involves guessing... that's where it becomes tricky... if you guess wrong and puish it too far, they'll move to another candidate... if you don't push hard enough, you'll settle for less than you are worth...

Take the advice of the others in this thread... and give them options.. instead of more salary, one less course to teach for the same salary... or guaranteed travel/conference money, or higher moving allowance, etc.  They might go for these because they don't push up your base salary, which throws off their scale...  the more options you give them, the more opportunities to come to agreement...

[Re: clean]

Clean is absolutely right. If I tell you that I cannot negotiate an offer, that means that I am giving you the best salary you'll get at your rank, a great set of incentives, and a whole lot more. If you start negotiating after that--not dropping your bargaining after I say, "That's it"--you will have notified me that you will always be at my door with demands.

Anon: "If a place is not negotiating, you probably do not want to be there. It is clear and present sign of significant and ongoing fiscal problems."

No. You're wrong. Some people just don't appreciate bringing the business practices of a used car lot into a university.

[capitulation not negotiation]

The poster who stated that "some people just don't appreciate bringing the business practices of a used car lot into a university" attempts to support a position that smacks of desperation.  Any reasonable business transaction involves good faith negotiation.  If a university tells you that they are giving you a non-negotiable offer, unless you are absolutely desperate for a job and will grovel for anything, walk away, as anon recommends.  It is similar to businesses telling you that they need an answer on a financial transaction "immediately" or it will no longer be available.  Walk away.  Cheap, tightwad universities that pay their faculty so pathetically that a starting offer soon exceeds the salaries of more senior faculty, have very serious problems.  Soon they will show up on your doorstep as well.  If you are a solid candidate and have something to offer, do not get suckered into a "take it or leave it" deal where you are pressured to accept some garbage offer.  Keep looking, and find a place that is more reasonable.