next »

[Carly and James]

Oops, Carly and James didn't end so well, which is what started this whole thread in the first place. Call us Paul and Joanne, or something else that casts the good mojo on our marriage.

[ks]

"whether that means co-authoring or playing on the faculty softball team or accepting invitations to colleagues' homes. "

that's all fine and swell but.....you don't know any of these things will come to pass at hiring time.

[To ks]

To ks:  You do seem rather angry, bitter and cynical...is it possible that this attitude carries over into your interaction with your colleagues?  Have you explained to them exactly why their demands/requests are so difficult for you to accomodate, or do you just expect them to read your mind while you quietly fester about the situation and then vent on this forum?  Perhaps the problem is one of poor communication--if they knew they were inconveniencing you to such an extent, they might be willing to make other concessions to even the score, so to speak.   And if they are truly as evil and selfish as you portray them, then surely you can speak to a department chair or even a university ombudsman about the situation.  

Academia is not perfect, nor is the corporate world--they are both full of people, and people always have problems (or children or lives outside of work or whatever.)  Likewise, the corporate world can be just as much about "who you know" and "luck" in terms of finding employment as the academic world is.  You would do better to try to live in (or even change) the world you live in now, rather than the world you wished it to be.  Otherwise, there are lots of eager young scholars with excellent qualifications and collegial attitudes who would love to have your position...

[%sig%]

[Anon]

I am also a "spousal hire." I couldn't agree with you more about the innane way that universities handle the issue. I have a non-tt "temporary" appointment.
Someone told me in confidence that I should apply for a tt job "anywhere" and "get one." Although everyone would know that "we" wouldn't be leaving (unless both of us got tt offers from the same place), it might "help" get "me" a tt job here "given my qualifications." Of course, the person also told me in confidence that "if" both of us applied elsewhere and were both offered a tt job at the same place, this particular university would be "certain" to match it.
Hello? Can anyone say stupid? This is the absolute dumbest thing I've ever heard... If my "qualifications" are enough to "give" me a tt job if I'm offered one somewher else, why is it not enough for me to be "given" one now? So, in essence, I need to apply for a job, get an offer (possibly taking it away from someone who might really really want to be at the university of "somewhere" knowing that I won't be taking it but not letting on that I won't be taking it (thus deceiving all the faculty at the university of "somewhere" and wasthing their time and resources) just so I could feel special? Give me a break. But then again, I'm told that this is how academics get raises, too.
I'm all for spousal hires, given the reality of the academic market, PROVIDED that the spouse IS qualified (someone that they "probably" would have hired anyway).

[ks]

Yeah, I did explain my perception about being forced to participate in accomodating their needs.  J understands and I think agrees; S is of the belief that we took them as a package and so must deal with the total package including issue of their family life.  so the real problem is a disgreement on a very fundamental level.  I think S has the impression (or maybe someone told her) that we (as a department) would do anything.  No one surely asked me about this because my response would have been I would take the hit on my research time for the first semester by going along with their scheduling plan until they got settled in but I can't do this semester in and semester out.  This is now the third semester. It cuts seriously into my lab time 3 days/week (most of my salary dispensation).

I don't think that collegial attitude requires me to accomodate some else's personal life on a regular basis.

[Just asking?]

Is there a difference between:

a. a newly minted PhD who will take the assistant professor position provided that the newly minted PhD spouse gets an assistant professorship to?

b. a newly minted PhD who will take the assistant professor position provided that the non PhD spouse gets a campus position.

c. a mega star in the field who will take a professorship provided that the spouse (who might not be as big in his/her field) gets a teaching position or if that spouse is not a PhD, then a staff position?

[econ anon]

In many cases the spousal hire is actually a good deal for the department-- they get a dedicated lecturer who wants to stay in the area and is willing to take a non-tt position and a pay cut for that opportunity.

When this is not the case, I want to make the following point:  In economics we have something called compensating differentials-- when a department hires a star's trailing spouse, the star is giving up something else in order to get that boon-- salary, teaching load, research money etc.   Presumably if the rest of the package was good enough, then the star (who has many outside options at other schools) would not require a job for his or her spouse in order to take the position.  The department that hires the trailing spouse is choosing to offer the trailing spouse job because it is cheaper for it to do so than to offer more money, fewer classes, less research support etc.

[Thissler]

"I think we should tell all student during their training that getting a job is more importantly based on fit, if this is in fact what it is. This clarifies that the process is mostly luck and therefore unless you fit it doesn't matter if you publish 2 articles or 20. "

Egad, sir. Are you saying that you DON'T advise your graduate students thusly about the job market? If not, then you truly are misleading them.

[ks]

I totally agree that a spousal hire can be a good deal for the department.  I totally agree that many academic spouses are as good if not better than maybe even others that would apply if the job were filled with an open search (super stars rarely marry losers).  I agree that spousal hires are a way that INTITUTIONS can respond to the aforementioned new reality of academics; it is no longer a situation of the little wife needing a secretary job.  We have dual career couples where both partners are successful and maybe one just happens to fill the direct needs of the department for a tt hire.  

My only problem is when I personally have to make sacrifices (and not small ones career altering time eating ones) to create a situation that works for them as a couple.  This schedule thing dramatically impacts on the things I need to get done for my own professional development (i.e. generate data and publish papers).  That's really all it is.  Just because we hired a couple doesn't mean its part of MY job to make this deal work for the institution at my own professional expense.  In my situation (after giving up a semester's productivity), I suggested they hire an additional lecturer to specially cover the problematic slot in the second semester (e.g., the institution follow thru on their commitment to a two career couple).  I did it the first, ended up doing it the second and now we are coming up on the thrid and I have dug in my heels.  I just can't do it this time; it keeps me out of the lab three days/week and has done so for two semesters now.  Classes start in less than 3 weeks.  I am prepared to stay dug in and start looking for another position.

[ks]

I will not take graduate students because the job prospects are so poor and I don't see them getting any better.  Every student likes to think that they are going to be the exception and things are going to work out fine if they just work hard.  

Too many students enter graduate school by default and then discover some 10 years later that if they thought this was making an investment in their future, it is an investment that pays back for very few and only with luck (fit) and that might never happen.

[supporter]

Right on, ks! Don't budge an inch! What your department is expecting of you is unfair and unacceptable, possibly even illegal. But here's the thing: is it the fault of the spousal hire/couple? Are they refusing to teach? Or is it a scheduling snafu on the part of your chair, or whoever puts together the teaching schedules, who is trying to make you take up the slack because a course is offered at an inopportune time of day for any of you? Either way, don't compromise--unless of course, it's to your eventual favor and you get it either up front or in writing. If you've got tenure, then no worries on your part. If not, then I hope you are keeping detailed records of this trangression for use in your lawsuit.

[anon]

"Is there a difference between:

a. a newly minted PhD who will take the assistant professor position provided that the newly minted PhD spouse gets an assistant professorship to?

b. a newly minted PhD who will take the assistant professor position provided that the non PhD spouse gets a campus position.

c. a mega star in the field who will take a professorship provided that the spouse (who might not be as big in his/her field) gets a teaching position or if that spouse is not a PhD, then a staff position?"

a. a newly minted phd would virtually never be able to get his/her newly minted phd spouse a tt job. he/she would have to be THE academic superstar of the decade.

b. many campuses will accomodate a "staff" position for a non-teaching spouse of a newly minted phd. low pay, office work mostly. we're not talking about "director of admissions," or something like that.

c. a tt track or even tenured job for a "mega star" is common. if the spouse is not in academia, a staff position "comparable" with his/her current job. if he/she is a director of something somewhere, he/she will be offered a similar job with similar pay.

[ks]

Q: "But here's the thing: is it the fault of the spousal hire/couple? "

thanks for your support.  I am actually very afraid these last 2 weeks; thus the private venting here (I am pretenure and if this cut in my research time continues I would be unlikely to get tenure).

I do not assess blame.  Fault is a perception. It is a situation that simply does not work independent of what understandings may have created it.  On one hand people might think I am unreasonable; on the other hand I think it is unreasonable to expect me to keep taking a professional "hit" for someone else's family life.  Perhaps S was promised things that I do not know about and if solicited I would have never agreed to (i.e., basically shut down my research program whose grant pays over half my salary anyway) and this is why she refuses to see my side.  Funny things happen when small and self identified "rising" departments are trying to recruit.  She does have a clear expectation that I should be willing to accomodate really without discussion.  The section remains TBA for instructor.

[Academic Superhero]

Great post.  I'm part of an academic couple too and have been through similar experiences to you.  I have one quibble with your post, though.  I agree that universities are stupid about the whole "go get an offer and then we'll see what we can do" (which indirectly resulted in me getting a much better job) but it's not limited to or even specific to academic couples.  Want a big raise beyond whatever paltry merit raises your school gives?  Not happy with your teaching load?  Need more research money?  Go on the market.  It's a stupid system from a human point of view, but I suppose it makes some administrative sense.  Those faculty unwilling to do so, or unable to prove their so-called "merit" on the market will never get the big vittles, which can instead go to new recruits and the few people who do actually risk uprooting their lives.

[a spousal hire]

ks,
i agree with you entirely. what these two people are doing is not only inconsiderate but just down-right rude and obnoxious. my problem with your earlier posts was that (and it may be my reading) they seemed to be blanket anti-spousal hires. as a spousal hire, i'm aware that i am on the receiving end of a favor. as such, i've volunteered to teach courses that others didn't want (bad time, too much grading, etc.). it seems that the problem you are having is that S feels that she is entitled to queen-like treatment based on J's merits and not her own. my department is aware that i had a tt job that i gave up and that i am currently looking for tt work in the area but i do not take my job lightly as if it were just a place that i hung around until something "better" came along.