next »

[Jennifer]

Hey everyone!

I just wanted to share an interviewing experience with you and see what you all think...

I had applied for a full-time Math faculty position - tenure-track - at a community college near me. I didn't think I had a chance, since I had just started my Masters in Math (I already have a Masters in Teaching with a major in math, but they were looking for the Masters in Math). I didn't hear anything for like two months, and I almost forgot about it. I had applied on a whim, just to see... Anyway, they call me, inviting me to the interview, telling me I was one of three they'd narrowed it down to out of like fifty applicants. I was astounded, and so flattered, and I accepted the interview.

Well, I had two weeks to prepare, and I went all out. I revised my portfolio, and I made every panel member - ten of them - a mini-portfolio of lesson plans, credentials, etc... Very professional. I have done this before, and it has always gone over very well. I was to teach a five-minute lesson on adding and subtracting fractions, and I prepared what I thought was an appropriate lesson demonstration - I related the content to baking cookies and adding up the ingredients, which would be very appropriate to teach that skill in an interesting way.

So, I go on the interview, and I thought I did very well. I was very nervous, but I calmed down somehow, and I thought I had very favorable responses from the committee members. So, they tell me they'll let me know if a few weeks. I'm like, great, can I wait that long?

So, I wait, and wait, and wait. Finally, like three weeks later, I get a very impersonal letter from them saying that they've decided not to fill the position just then, but they hoped I'd reapply the next semester when they reposted. So, that means, no one got the position - it wasn't just me!!! Or could they say that even if it wasn't true? I did see the position reposted for awhile, but I did not apply...

Anyway, I emailed the Dean of Instruction, the head guy  on the committee, to ask him if there was anything I could improve upon in my interviewing skills or with my credentials. He called me the next day and left a message on my machine saying that I had excellent credentials and interviewing skills - there was no improvement he could suggest. He told me the reason I was not selected was that I made a math error during my presentation. I was floored! I know I did not - I had my transparencies still from the presentation, and there was no error! I mean, I could present that material with my eyes shut. I have a very good memory, and I kept racking my brain trying to discover what "error" I'd supposedly made, but I couldn't come up with one! I have no idea what he was talking about, but I didn't want to call him and ask... I finally decided that perhaps the college never really intended to hire anyone, or some budgetary thing happened or something. I'm not sure...

What do you all think? Is this normal? I'm about 99.9% sure I did not make an error. Were they just saying that? I was so insulted by that - anything but questioning my competence in my subject area - that was the worst thing they could have said, especially when I know it not to be true!

Anyway, thanks for listening...

Jennifer :)

[catnip]

I don't have any parallel experiences, but the two things don't fit together.

1. "Finally, like three weeks later, I get a very impersonal letter from them saying that they've decided not to fill the position just then, but they hoped I'd reapply the next semester when they reposted. So, that means, no one got the position - it wasn't just me!!!"

2. "He told me the reason I was not selected was that I made a math error during my presentation."

The letter says that that they didn't fill the position, but the committee member says that you "weren't selected." Well, if they didn't fill the position, then nobody was selected. While it's probably not good to call the committee member back and tell him about the logic error he just made, he made one.

It's obviously bugging you that he said you made an error. Why don't you have a math friend look at your handouts and transparencies to see if there really was something wrong? If there's no error, then you'll know that the guy was blowing smoke.

[profesora]

You could have made an error when you were speaking (while what you have on the transparency is correct).

I say this because I am super fluent in Spanish (to the extent that I have fooled native speakers, who ask me what part of Spain I am from because they assume that it is a certain region but maybe I have a light speech impediment or something because there is the tiniest "something" that is not quite right....) but occasionally I hear myself make a really basic error when I am speaking to students.  I sat in on a colleague's class and heard the same, once.  And I asked a native speaker about this and she said that yes, when she is trying to speak a little more slowly and clearly for a classroom, every now and again she will make an error that she never would make if she were speaking normally.

Plus, have you ever made an error in English?  I do, especially some of the time with subject/verb agreement, and between "which" and "that" because I speak several Romance languages and I get a little mixed up every now and again between them.

This does not excuse the hiring committee though.  One small error?  No, it sounds that they were fishing for a reason not to hire.  If it truly was a little tiny error, the chair could have told you what it was and it shouldn't have been a deal breaker.  

Welcome to the crazy world of academia.  Wackademia, I've started to call it.  As in: it's wack.

[B.F.]

I would not spend much time ruminating on this one. Have a colleague look at your transparencies. If there isn't an error, forget about it and move on. Given that what the dean told you and what the letter stated do not match, who knows what happened.

[different point of view]

I have a different point of view from the others who have responded here.  I understand how frustrating it can be to have someone tell you you made an error when you didn't.  Assuming that everything you said and did was correct, there are two things that occur to me, one is that the Dean was misremembering and confusing your presentation with someone elses.  That's the nice version.  The other is that the Dean, or someone else on the committee, isn't very good at math and thought there was an error when there wasn't.  

I also feel that since this is a local cc and you may want to try for a position there in the future that this may be a situation that you will want to clear up with the committee.  I would call them each individually and ask for a follow-up meeting so that you can clear up the misunderstanding.  Tell them that you have gone over everything and that you would like them to show you where the error was because you are not seeing it and that it is driving you nuts.  Indicate that you feel that this is very important because you do not want to leave them with a bad impression about you for the future.  You can even suggest an out for them in that there may have been a mix up with someone else's presentation.  You might consider discussing the situation with each one independently, that way the one who made the error would not be embarrassed in front of the others, it's much easier to admit fault in front of only one person.  Be gratious during your talks with them, but firm.  But do get it cleared up, otherwise you will always be 'the guy that screwed up the simple Math problem during the interview' and they won't consider you for other positions.  

If you are not interested in teaching for them then you don't need to follow up unless it is just driving you crazy, then I'd say do it for your own personal satisfaction.

[rattus domesticus]

If you do follow up with the dean, one way to approach it is to say that you were going to use part of your presentation for a class and you wanted to be sure to correct the error. That makes it look like you are simply concerned about math and not bashing him or his committee. Good luck math person!

[opposite of different p.o.v.]

i think that if you want a job there in the future, the LAST thing you should do is call them and ask them to point out your error, at the risk that that will make you seem petty, passive aggressive, obsessive, and-or neurotic.  But your situation is very, very frustrating - my sympathies!

[alternative]

A letter from a job applicant:

Dear Ms. Hazel, Thank you for your letter of July 17th. After careful consideration I regret to inform you that I am unable to accept your refusal to offer me employment with your firm. This year I have been particularly fortunate in receiving an unusually large number of rejection letters. With such a varied and promising field of corporate candidates it is impossible for me to accept all refusals for employment.

Despite your company's outstanding qualifications and previous experience in rejecting applicants, I find that your rejection does not meet with my needs at this time. Therefore, I will initiate employment with your firm immediately following graduation. I look forward to seeing you then. Best of luck in rejecting future candidates.

Sincerely, John Douglas

[Still_Ruminating]

I also had a truly infuriating experience with a community college.  I have a Ph.D. in one of the physical sciences from a R1, generally considered the best in the U.S.  I'm grossly overqualified to teach at a CC.  

During interview #1, I answered a set of high-school level questions from the committee quite effortlessly.  I then launched into my teaching presentation.  Part of my presentation involved presenting a set of curves.  Being a good Ph.D, I had derived the curves from first principles instead of just looking up the correct form in a text.   The curves were normalized in my derivation and I forgot to change back to physical units in my presentation.  One of the committee members pointed out my mistake and I graciously admitted my mistake.  It was such a minor and insignificant part of the interview that I forgot all about it.

So next I'm invited back as a finalist in front of the college president.  Near the end of the interview, one of the committee members asks what I would do differently if I could go back to interview #1.  I was oblivious to the meaning of this question and made some innocuous reply.  Then the committee member went out of her way to highlight my earlier mistake in front of the college president.  I really felt stunned.  If my mistake was so grievous, why was I invited back as finalist?  An hour after the interview I called the Dean to withdraw my application.

My guess is that I was never really in the running for that position.  Perhaps the committee needed some concrete reason to choose someone else.  In all my years, that was the most blatantly obnoxious interview situation I've ever encountered.

[%sig%]

[Sofia]

It's also quite possible that the one committee member was just a jerk...

[Jennifer]

Hey everyone!

Thanks for all your responses. I do not think after the way the committee treated me with such disrespect as to make me wait so long, and then insult my math abilities that I would ever seek employment there again. I would rather be unemployed! And then they had the nerve to suggest that I reapply - like I'd go through that again! I agree honestly with the person who said I shouldn't call them back and inquire - if I did care. I'm still laughing over the post of the "Thank you for the rejection letter but I do not accept" - hilarious!

I don't know what politics were happening there - I have the feeling that I wasn't really in the running or something. I mean, why did I even get called. I don't have the credential yet - I was only in my first semester of my Masters in Math when I applied - not nearly the 18 grad credits minimum. I have been told by others that sometimes, colleges and other schools have to post and opening and interview for it, even if they have no intention of hiring. Is that true? Maybe they juggled around adjuncts and full-timers there and then filled their vacancies that way. Who knows? Or maybe someone resigned and came back.

I know that nervousness can definitely play a part - but I tend to get very calm for some reason when I'm nervous, and I have an excellent memory. I can remember what I said and did and what they said and did word for word. And I did have others look at my transparencies - I mean, this stuff was really basic - and there is no error! So, I'm just chalking it up to a bad experience and moving on. But it was surely disappointing at the time...

Anyway - I have another thing to ask - while on the subject - my current dean where I'm an adjunct sent me an email a few weeks back saying she was down two and a half full-time staff (half a staff, imagine that!), and that if she could secure a position or get it approved, would I be available and interested. So, of course I email her back that I would be delighted - I mean, working there is the whole reason I'm pursuing this level of teaching, it's so great there - and then I didn't hear from her for two weeks. So, I finally emailed her back to make sure she got my email, and that yes, I was interested. So, then she emails me back and says she's glad, but that the position is very tenative and not to cancel any other plans for the fall (drop classes, etc...) until she knows. What should I do at this point? What if she never gets back to me? I'm scheduled to teach a Precalc class in the summer term and two other classes in the fall. If she doesn't get back to me by late August, should I contact her or just assume she couldn't get the position approved?

Thanks everyone!

[Professor 7/7]

I was in a similar situation to your last year.  The hypothetical position never surfaced.  Keep your eye out for the dean's email and keep visiting the college's human resources website.  That's really the best you can do.  Good luck.

[Lecturer]

You might want to learn a little bit about how the hiring process in academia works.  There's a lot of waiting, and a lot of uncertainty. Two months, actually, is not very long to wait between submitting an application and getting called for an interview.  Likewise, it's rare to progress from "if she can secure a position" to any kind of firm offer within two weeks.  It's not a great system, and it's horribly nerve-wracking for job candidates, but the more you recognize that it's not you, it's how the system works, the less nerve-wracking it will be.

[Jennifer]

Thanks for the tip! I'm very new to all of this. I don't even really know many people that I can ask questions to about this sort of stuff. Most friends I have are high school teachers or have other careers. It's good to know though.