next »

[Legal Beagle]

What is the general consensus and view in academic circles about the JD - Juris Doctor- in parity with PhDs?  Where would this professional degree rank in hiring and pay scales?

[%sig%]

[anon]

Depends on what you want to do. I assume law school prof or administrator of some kind?  You'd make more than a humanities ph.d., much more.  You'll get a snooty attitude from Ph.D.'s who consider your J.D. to be a "lesser" credential, but this shouldn't bother you. You'll make much more.

[Anon]

A JD is a professional degree.

Frankly, coming from the sciences, I respect lawyers (scholarly, academically) as much as I respect optometrists and chiroprators.

Having said that, JDs (in my personal experience)  have made terrific administrators because they tend to speak well and give 'measured' responses to issues.

Anon

[Legal Beagle]

Teaching @ CC level currently as an Adjunct (Bus Law I&II) and while the $ as a PTimer is nice, I have noticed the distinct "separation" from my J (Doctor) and the rest of the "real" Doctoral Instructors.  And Administration would be my preference since the closest law school to me is on the next planet (lol) and has anyone looked at the list of candidates trying to get into law school teaching? Reads like a World Cup Soccer Match attendance sheet.

[Legal Beagle]

Well that is a very nice positive and while the legal profession continues to be bashed and scorned in converstation, who do people call when in trouble?  But I have been told, more than once (or even twice), that I need to return to school and obtain a MA/MS if I want to seriously break into the Academic Advising/Administration area - no PhD, no dean; no MA Counseling, don't even try.  A new kind of Paper Chase for me!

[anon]

A major, major social science foundation has just awarded one of their big postdoctoral fellowships to a JD-only.

[Legal Beagle]

TY - there is still hope!

[Untenured]

A JD degree is considered to be a sufficiently terminal degree for both law school teaching and teaching law subjects in non-law school places.  Accrediting agencies that discuss the issue accept the JD as an equivalent for a Ph.D. for academic teaching.   A JD should not be considered a lesser credential.

A JD's salary can vary widely -- ranking either low (teaching in a legal studies program housed in the college of arts and sciences), above average (teaching in a business school), or very high (teaching in a law school).

I'm not sure what your situation is. . . . are you an attorney who wants to teach law?  Do you wish to enter administration?  More details might help us help you.

Untenured

[AnOn]

I once worked at a school where we had 2 professors with JDs  -- one was near the bottom of the salary scale (taught English) and the other was near the top (taught Biz Law).

[para-legal]

Untenured wrote:
> A JD degree is considered to be a sufficiently terminal
> degree for both law school teaching and teaching law subjects
> in non-law school places.  Accrediting agencies that discuss
> the issue accept the JD as an equivalent for a Ph.D. for
> academic teaching.   A JD should not be considered a lesser
> credential.

A degree is either terminal or not. There is no such thing as "sufficently terminal"  - as there is no such thing as "sufficiently dead" when you talk about a patent no longer living.

As far as teaching in law shcools and the rest of the "credential equivelance" unsubstantiated claims you make with regard to  "accrediting agencies" --- you are clearly clueless.

As a homework exercise, find out what an LLM degree is. Then, for extra credit, explain what Legum Magister means (hint: it is Latin).

Para-legal

[Untenured]

para-legal wrote:


>
> A degree is either terminal or not. There is no such thing as
> "sufficently terminal"  - as there is no such thing as
> "sufficiently dead" when you talk about a patent no longer
> living.

I used the word sufficiently to account for the fact that degrees beyond the JD exist.   This includes the LLM and the SJD degrees, which require advanced study.  Thus, the JD is not, literally, the terminal and last degree.  The word "sufficiently" mitigates the absoluteness of the world "terminal."

> As far as teaching in law shcools and the rest of the
> "credential equivelance" unsubstantiated claims you make with
> regard to  "accrediting agencies" --- you are clearly clueless.

For example, the Association to Advance the Collegiate Schools of Business (AACSB) is an accrediting agency that certifies business schools according to certain criteria.  See www.aacsb.edu.

The AACSB has a document that establishes standards of accreditation.  Page 40 of this document states that, in the general context of defining an academically qualified faculty member as one with a doctoral degree, that "individuals with a graduate degree in law will be considered academically qualified to teach business law and legal environment of business."

The website of the document is: http://www.aacsb.edu/accreditation/business/AACSBSTANDARDS-Jan05-Final.pdf

Therefore, I stand by my previous post that states accrediting agencies do classify the JD degree as equivalent to the Ph.D.  This document explains this equivalence and other requirements in great depth.

> As a homework exercise, find out what an LLM degree is. Then,
> for extra credit, explain what Legum Magister means (hint: it
> is Latin).
>
> Para-legal

Yes, I know what an LLM degree is.  No, I will not explain what Legum Magister means.

If you are someone who is familiar with legal education at a law school or otherwise, perhaps we can talk.  If you are a "para-legal", as your name implies, or someone not familiar with this profession, then you should keep your mouth and your keyboard firmly shut.

Untenured

[%sig%]

[anon]

pay scale aside, the jd is parallel to a bachelor of law in most countries.

[Anon 2]

anon wrote:

> pay scale aside, the jd is parallel to a bachelor of law in
> most countries.


It is.  Just like most students in other countries that become physicians do so in an undergraduate program.

The US seems to be one of the few countries that makes all these professional degrees graduate degrees.  Not that is necessarily bad.  But it's interesting.

[Not Para-legal, just a Troll]

I would be interested to see a .jpg of the keyboard you can "shut," in the same manner as one might a mouth.  Is it possible you meant to write "shut down," as a euphemism for "powered off?"

[anon]

lap top