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[More on Therapy...]

I noticed from the previous subject poster that there may be some answers in the forum.  I have been debating over the past year or so to make a big career change into therapy from art prof and have been scouring schools and programs to try and figure out this process.  My ideal job would be to end up as a mental health therapist outside of academe.  What should be my optimum educational path?  From the previous thread, it appears that a Masters in Counseling may not be the best route....but what is?

[Anon 2]

I don't have any exerperience in the mental health field, however based on my observations outside of academa (my last administrative position was in a large medical school, that had one huge and several smaller medical centers with which we were associated with), that you need a Ph.D. or a M.S.W., to be a mental health therapist.  I'm sure that some people who have a Masters in Counseling find a position in this area, however, I think because of the licensing requirements and the fact that most states require that you complete so many hours of supervised counseling after graduation, fewer organizations are willing to hire people with just a Masters.  

However, my observations are just that observations, and so perhaps others with a better grasp of the field will be able to provide better and more useful feedback.

[LPC/LMFT]

I am currently working in private practice as a licensed master's level counselor (LPC & LMFT).  In my experience, the shortest route and the one with the most options would be to get an MSW.  For the most part, MSW's have parity with PhDs in reimbursement from private insurance companies and in government programs.  Licensed masters level counselors are not always able to work in as many area's as MSWs or PhDs.  In the future, this may change since counseling groups are lobbying for parity along with MSWs and PhDs.

However, I think the curriculum in most master's and doctoral programs in counseling and psychology are more directed to providing psychotherapy and counseling services.  

Ultimately, you will have to choose between the most efficient path (MSW) or one that I think will better qualify you to provide mental health counseling. (PhD or masters in counseling).

[Ruth]

Why does "More on Therapy" ask about career possibilities here, instead of researching them online or in the library?

Strikes me as a certain degree of laziness.

And besides, how do you know that random posters here are even telling you the truth? They're just telling you their perceptions.

My perception: people who won't do their own background research are going to be abducted by aliens in August.

Watch out.

[%sig%]

[career changer]

Hi Ruth,

I have done a lot of background research into this field.  However, due to the vastness of the field and what seems like a multitude of degree options available, I simply have not got a handle on the best direction for me to take as a someone with several degrees, and a long teaching record i.e. I am not starting out from scratch.  I can appreciate how it seems like I may be being lazy, but I assure you that I have spent quite a bit of time talking to various programs and individual licensing boards in both Canada and the U.S.  

As this will be such a huge career change for me (from f/t teaching) to back to school for X number of years at the age of 40, I am really trying to gather as much information as may be out there.  I have a lot of respect for the credentials and honesty of the people in this forum and have been a participating member for a number of years.  I also do not have a network of friends to call on in the therapy field, so I am quite anxious to have some non-biased opinions (grad schools and the boards I have talked to have been both a little vague and overly optimistic about career possibilities it seems).

[Ruth]

To Career Changer--I like your last post much better. If you post in that vein, you may get more responses and fewer snarls from people like me.

[%sig%]

[Pecos]

Although I'm not a therapist, I have several friend who are.  Some get a lot of satisfaction from it, some find it very frustrating....  not the clients so much as "the system."  For example, insurance companies only approve X number of visits, or insist on group vs. one on one therapy, and require ongoing progress reports.  The field is also moving toward pharma based treatments, vs. the "talking cure" approach.  In fact, some states allow PhD therapists to prescribe drugs (with a physician's supervision).

Some of your satisfaction may also depend on what type of client you hope to work with.  Ex-cons?  Drug and alcohol users?  "Normal" neurotics?  "Coaching" for professionals?  and so on...

[Relative]

Have you considered art therapy? A close relative of mine did a degree in that field after many years of non t-t employment with a M.F.A. and found a program that supported the internship needed for licencing in her state, as well as a job working in an institution for children (which also does a lot of evaluation for courts and so forth) that pleases her very much. Her prior skills evidently gave her a leg up in the field once she'd done the necessary intro level psych courses needed for admission at various local institutions (including CCs). In your case, you might well be able to acquire the needed background from the school where you currently teach without giving up your job.

[readymade]

I have a friend who went from ABD in art history to psychotherapy.  He got an MSW, and is very satisfied with his decision.  

I have a another close friend who is a practicing therapist in private practice (LPC).  I was friends with him througout his college and grad school, so I have a pretty good idea of the process.

If you want to be a counselor, there's really no need for a Ph.D. in clinical psych.  He was pushed into that by his undergrad psych faculty, and it was a ridiculous move.  He was in a program full of sickos, and ended up leaving with an M.S. as  a booby prize.  But it all worked out, because therapy was what he wanted to do.  

MSW programs can be very selective and very intense, but much shorter.  You can also go the ed. psych. route, but I don't know much about that.

[reality check]

The most important thing to consider is how licensing works in your state (or the state you want to live in).  Can you get licensed as an LPC (licensed professional counselor) and what education/supervised experience do you need to get it?  These requirements vary be state and if you are tied down to your location, this is definitely something to consider before going back to school.

Once you have figured this out, look at web sites for universities in the state in which you want to practice.  Ask programs questions like, How successful are your graduates in obtaining employment?  Do all of your students get placed at internship sites?  What kind of assistance do you provide for obtaining the necessary experience?

If you talk to most Ph.D.s who are practicing, they will tell you that you do not need to get a Ph.D. to do counseling - go with the MA or MS in whatever field you can get licensed in.

Good luck!

[msw]

Just be prepared: you get paid very, very poorly as a therapist in this economy.

My best friend graduated with a masters in social work last year, and it took her almost a year to find a job. She did not want to get stuck at the entry level doing work that required only a bachelor's degree, and there were just not very many openings available in the town in which she lived.

You do NOT need a Ph.D. to do counseling, definitely. Masters degrees, probably in social work, are probably the way to go. Regardless of your choice for education, be prepared for a world that does not support therapists.

[hmm]

what about school psychology, there's a shortage in that field from what I understand, and the pay is pretty good.

[More on Therapy.....]

To MSW and everyone:

Thanks for the advice here, I am now investigating MSW programs which had not been my focus before.  MSW, when you say the pay is poor, do you mean in relation to f/t professor scale?  My current salary is not particularly good (about 50-60k living in a very expensive part of the country).  I am fine with this current wage, that is not why I am considering changing careers, but would the pay be less than this in therapy?  That might hard.

[econ anon]

social work according to the bureau of labor statistics:

http://bls.gov/oco/ocos060.htm

It doesn't separate by education level or geographic region, but maybe one of the links at the end will.

[AJ]

Have you considered a degree in Art therapy or a program that will allow you to incorporate this-it seems a more natural progression in your career and makes all your previous work relevant.  I have a Ph D from an APA acredited program and internship-that is an 8-10 year process, if you are considering it be warned, even with assistantships I graduated with 70K worth of debt, even private practice won't get you out of that sort of hole starting later in life.  There are many things to consider, you might want to look at CSW programs, they are the most clinical of the social work world there is the MA which can lead to LPC in most states (though not automatically).

AJ

[%sig%]