next »

[lexis]

I am stressed and anxious and could use some advice- I got my MA in Social Foundations of Education from an elite institution 4 years ago, and have been admitted back to the same program for doctoral studies.  They do not offer much in the way of funding so I will need to take out more loans (already have a lot).

Ultimately I want to teach at the college level-  but I am really concerned about the job market and if I am just racking up more debt for nothing.

This is a degree that is social science based, but it will be in Education. So would I be better off in a social science? It looks difficult to get a position in Education without a whole lot of K-12 teaching experience, and it looks difficult to get a position in Soc/Anth with a degree in Ed (even though it is based in these disciplines).

I do not want to do all this work and accumulate debt just to come out with some adjuct crappy no-benefits part-time job.  Does the fact that the school is quite elite do anything for making me more marketable?  Should I go ahead and do it because I like teaching and enjoy the academic process? Or should I save myself years of madness and not do it?  Help!

[econ anon]

The best place to find out about whether or not there will be a job for you after you finish a phd at that specific program is to ask them for statistics on where their former students for the past 10 or 15 years ended up after graduation, and how long it took them to find employment.  They should have that information available to prospective students (though maybe not specific schools).  They may even have starting salary info.

I don't know about your specific field, but I do know this.

Do NOT do a PhD unless you have a huge LOVE for what you're doing, especially research or undergraduate teaching (most schools you won't need to love both, though it helps).  Overall you will make less money getting the PhD (if you're not getting a good stipend) and getting a job afterwards than you would if you had a job during that time and invested part of that salary.  (A masters will make you money, a phd will not make you enough money to make up for not having worked through graduate school.)

Getting a doctorate has a lot of really really not fun parts to it.  Getting a job afterwards can be tough.  Don't do it just because you're not sure what else to do.  Only do it because you have a passion for the subject you're studying and either want to create new research or share your love of the subject with students.

I would not do it if you're worried about debt afterwards.  If teaching is your main goal, it would be much easier to find job security and a reasonable salary in K-12, although you would not be able to teach much soc/anth.  There are probably other options that you can consider as well-- what are your alternatives?

[Fiona]

Econ anon says so well what I would say. Don't do it unless you love what you're learning or want to learn. Life is short.

[%sig%]

[almost grad]

I know it's a difficult choice, but sit down and weigh the pros and cons of this PhD program.  Writing them out helps.  How much do you think you will go in debt?  How many jobs are there that you would be qualified for once you graduate, and would you want those jobs?  I was accepted for a PhD program for this fall, and after careful consideration, I withdrew.  It was a difficult decision, but I found something I preferred to do with my masters degree.  I also realized I didn't want to get those jobs that required a PhD.  

Just be careful.  I have a friend that is mired in a PhD program that should take 5 years.   She's been there 3 years and expects at least 4 more, and she did not stop to think about what she wanted to do until she was two years in.  Now, she has nothing to show for her 3 years of work (they refused to give her a masters degree), and she is stuck if she expects to get any degree at all.  Hopefully this won't be an issue since you have experience with the institution and should have a better idea of how things work.  Good luck, whatever your decision may be.

[Aristotelian]

You did not mention anything about your application process.  Can you broaden your application field?  If you bump up your GRE score you might be able to get funding somewhere.  I would strongly recommend against going for a PhD without funding unless you have exhausted all other options.  You think you might be a special case that can get done in 3 or 4 years, but you have to be realistic and be prepared for it to take 6-7 years, and that's a lot of debt.

[dr. joe]

L:

Calm down, friend.  We'll give you the advice that will do wonders for your soul.  And if not, you don't have to pay us the $100/HR fee, okay?

Seriously, I too had an MA, but realized that the Ph.D. was the only way to teach college-level courses.  IF this is your end, then you must live in debt for a while . . .

I have a Ph.D. in Education, too, and am just now realizing that if you do NOT have public school teaching experience there's no chance of getting a t-t job.   So . . . if it's not part of your Ph.D. program volunteer or work part-time in a school district.  

Also, Social Foundations is a fine specialization to have, but make sure you also specialize in a more 'practical' side of ed, too.  Perhaps policy, literacy, technology and curriculum, are a few choices I'd rec'd.

Publish  like mad, too.

The Ph.D. granting school's reputation is not a real big selling point for you and the next job, but the refernces are.  Stick close to the big shot (if they're not too abrasice or arrogant) to secure top-notch references.

That's about it for me --

Best of luck in the program.

Dr. Joe

[lexis]

thank you all for the insight and advice. To respond to Dr. Joe,  I have one year of K-12 teaching experience and many years of experience working with public schools in youth-serving programs.  If it is not in-classroom K-12 teaching experience, it doestn't really count, right?

Another question- if I do go, should I become part time at my decent-paying job that is willing to work around my PhD schedule, or take the T.A. position being offered, which pays about the same but there is no guarantee it will be offered again in the spring semster? (That particular class is not even offered in the spring).  I have already been a T.A. for this class as a master's student, so it is already on my resume (although a few years back).  At what point would I want to give up the stability of a job to start being a TA, when who knows if I can get TA positions every semester?

Last issue- if I focus on the Soc. or Anthro of Education, would I be able to get a position teaching Soc or Anthro at a CC, or even a 4 year school?
Or am I better off, with a degree in Ed, trying to build up my public school teaching experience to focus on positions in schools of Ed?

Thanks a million for any and all advice.  I just do not want to regret, later in life, that I did not at least give this a shot.

[WannaBee]

Dr. Joe,

You recommended volunteering some time in the public schools if you don't have teaching experience.  Do you think that is sufficient?  Or do you suspect that those of us coming from non-teaching careers are really out of luck?  (I know you don't have a crystal ball, but I'd still be interested in hearing your "gut feeling" on this.)

I am in a similar situation as the original poster, trying to decide if I should pursue the Ph.D....

Thanks.

[somewhat amused]

I am operating under the assumption that the original posting is genuine (i.e., not a troll). We have had some posts lately along the lines of "I want to do a PhD, should I?"

I agree with "econ anon". The major question is WHY do you want to do a PhD? If the answer is "teach at the college level" and you do not intend to do research, the PhD program will make you suffer. You have to love your area of research and

What many people may not realize is that a PhD degree is a research degree FIRST, and if you are lucky, you get some teaching experience. Talk to your advisor, and make it clear WHY you are getting a PhD. It will save you and your advisor time and there will be fewer headaches. Your ADVISOR needs to know what YOU want and YOU need to know what your ADVISOR expects from you. If your advisor wants you to work mostly on research and do not teach much (or vice versa), you need to know.

In general, you should only do a PhD if you are 99.98% sure you want to do college level teaching IN YOUR AREA (not merely generically "I just wanna teach college level classes") and/or research. If you are doing it just to have a degree or to increase your income or job stability, forget about it. Monetary considerations should come after that (and they are significant). Even being FULLY funded throughout my program, I still "lost" a lot of money, because even if you get scholarships or grants, those allow you to sustain yourself but no one I knew made as much as they could have "in the real world".

I hope this helps, and good luck.

[anon]

You say "doesn't offer much funding."  What does this mean?  I'd say if you actually have to pay the school one thin dime, do not go under any circumstance, even if you have "exausted all other options" as another reply said.  If by "not much" you mean that the TA gig is less than you'd make at another job, then this is to be expected.  Go only if you receive a tuition waiver and stipend of some kind. (Fellowship, TA, RA, whatever.)  Do NOT pay anything at all.  And with regard to asking departments about placement, make sure you get actual numbers, not anecdotal info. Almost anyplace can say "oh, so and so from our department is at Great University" now.  Get the actual numbers, not a few anecdotes.

[Marcus Welby]

This topic has been discussed on a number of occasions.  Here's one
of the threads.  Good luck with your decision.

http://chronicle.com/forums/careernetwork/read.php?f=2&i=4310&t=4310

[dr. joe]

WB:

IF one could get a part-time position at a school district, say for example, as a remedial reading teacher under the No Child Left Behind Act, that should serve you well.  It would show others your love for teaching at the public school level, too.

And remember this: No one is out of luck unless one is out of HOPE.

Go for the Ph.D. if it's in your blood.  If not, let it go . . . BUT if you want to teach in an Education program at the University, you will also need Public School teaching experience.  

Of course, you could always get a MA in Teacher Ed. or certification in  a teaching area, too.  That might get you into a university professorship in a distant land, though that alone, without a Ph.D. is unlikely to earn you a sweet spot in an Ivy League school.

Good luck and keep me posted . . .

Dr. Joe