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[Sweetheart]

Awhile back, some of us were comparing our commuting distances on one of these fora.  I was sort of surprised to see how many others drive as far as/further than I do, at 50 miles/one-way.  

At any rate, two points occurred to me this morning:

1.  With gas prices going nuts these days, I'm VERY happy that there are only a couple of weeks left in the semester!

and

2.  I'm very grateful that my dept. chair allowed me to stack my summer schedule (all overload, as I'm tt) with online classes.  Registration started Thursday, and within two hours one of my Comp classes was already full; by this morning, another looks like it'll fill, too (these don't start til June), and a lit class will likely make as well (or, if need be, I'll offer to teach it for reduced pay if it's only short one or two of a full load).  So it looks like I'm going to be spending some quality time at home in t-shirt and shorts and barefoot, making some cash this summer--yahoo!

I'm sure these classses are filling so well for the reason I addressed in #1--gas prices (our comp classes usually fill, though not this quickly, but the lit classes in summer often don't make).  Is anyone else taking on this kind of telecmmuting/online work from your schools?  Has it been offered to you?  If not, and you're tired of being robbed at the gas pumps, have you considered asking for the opporunity to teach online/distance classes?

[%sig%]

[anon]

i'm switching to a new job and new city this year. i've been on one house hunting trip and I have decided --  almost solely due to gas prices -- that i will live walkable distance to the campus.

can't you move closer to your institution?

[anon2]

I understand that taking online courses is a real boon for folks who have difficulty making it to campus (disability, for example). I understand that colleges and universities bow to consumers to provide these classes, and can pay faculty less (usually) to teach them.  And I understand academics who accept these classes (so they can telecommute, because they're broke, because the job market is awful). I also know folks who have taken online onleine courses because they need a piece of paper for their job.

But, honestly -- don't you believe the majority of online classes provide a substandard teaching environment for students? Why is no one talking about this? We talk about plenty of academic ills on these board -- the shameful adjunct situation, the difficulties in finding good positions, etc., but not too much about on-line courses.

An anecdote: I overheard a student say that she really learned a lot in a particular class, and was surprised how much more you learn in person.  It turned out she had been talking mostly on-line, or video courses up to that point.  This was an undergraduate who was taking on line courses primarily to be flexible about her work hours.

I see very little grappling about the pedagological problems of this approach. Can I be the only person on this forum who believes it is foolish to assume that you can teach all subjects well on-line?

[hmm]

Well, sometimes "good enough" is good enough. Not everything has to be ideal, you know.

[Lecturer]

I've taught a bit online, and in some ways the online courses are actually superior to their face-to-face counterparts.  Specifically, I found that students read more (and more thoroughly) and they participated more often and more thoughtfully in online discussion than they ever do  in class.

Other aspects, of course, suffered.  My "lectures" couldn't be adapted to particular learner needs or interests, nor could they adapt to bring in current events or tie back to the previous day's discussion.  And the interface is a pain  to deal with sometimes (although I guess the classroom environment has its drawbacks too, with noisy air-conditioning units and bees flying in the windows).

No, it's not ideal--but what class is?  And sure, there are some subjects that can't be taught well online.  It's very different from face-to-face instruction, but that doesn't mean it's "substandard."

[Thundering Marshmallow]

I have been gradually incorporating greater parts of online communication with my traditional F2F classes, and it is now reaching the point that I am offering students some options regarding contact time. As long as I have evidence that they are engaged in the learning of the course objectives and that I am truly available to them to coach their developing projects, I see no reason to force seat-time. I don't really enjoy courses that are exclusively online, but especially for summer, if we can meet once a weeek for serious quality interaction with all the readings and prep done with due diligence, we can usually accomplish what is needed to be done face to face.

This does not make my life easier, and in fact, it requires more time to monitor discussion boards, read drafts, answer e-mail. All it saves is gas money and commute time, and my students commute as much as an hour and a hlaf each way.

It requires quite a bit of organization in advance and I have to be extremely clear about what I expect them to achieve by the end of the courses. It is crucial to have very transparent grading policies and to work out a reasonable expectation for online interaction.

But it is worth it and I find my students, many of whom are less traditional, greatly appreciate the flexibility. They seem to be even more engaged in reading for understanding independently and in referring to the syllabus for guidance.

I don't know if this is what the thread was intended to discuss, but that's my batch of thoughts on the topic.

[eternal adjunct]

I'm in the midst of my first online class, with another slated for the summer.  Since I drive 50 miles one way to one campus, and 60 to another, not spending the gas money is a big bonus.  So is not worrying about daycare.

Fortunately, though, the 50 mile campus is a weekend only deal, so I don't have to go very often.  At the rate they pay, it would cost more to drive there than I would get paid if I taught a MWF class!

My biggest problem is getting organized enough to do the constant upkeep.  I have noticed that people participate a bit "freer" than they sometimes do in f2f classes (being sort of an anon seems to work on those fora, too!).  I've also noticed that doing simple tasks, like grading, take longer online than the old school way (although perhaps, with practice, this will go down too).

I will say that I miss some of the performative aspects of f2f in the online class, too.

But this seems to be where the field is moving, to some extent.  And oddly enough, I'm getting paid more for the online class than I have for any other specifically adjunct gig I've done (including the big wannabe R1).

[LarryC]

I have taught most of my 4/4 load onlline for the last five years. Done right, distance ed is better in many ways than classroom teaching (detailed above), worse in a few. Personally, teaching online has been an incredible boon for me.  I have raised my now 6 year old son while holding down a professional career--how many fathers have that luxury? If he wanted to go to daycare he did, but on those many mornings he said "Dad, can we go fishing today?" we dug some worms and hit the river.

[Sweetheart]

To Anon2's questions:

I had many of the same questions when I first was asked to teach online.  I've done quite a few of these classes in the past several years, and here's what I've observed (I also teach the same courses in a "live" classroom, for comparison):

First, as to pay, ours is the same whether in-class, online, or telecourse,  or whether as part of our regular load or overload.

As to the quality of instruction:  My requirements for students are exactly the same in regard to the reading and writing assignments, the length of time allowed for completion, my grading, and my availability outside of class to consult with students.  In fact, I probably spend more office hours meeting/e-mailing/on the phone with online students--no surprise there.  

What I have found, and something I address before the beginning of any online class (via an announcement posted to Blackboard, an e-mail and a postal letter to each student) is the fact that an online class in Comp I or II is, for all intents and purposes, an independent study.  The requirements in regard to good fundamental skills are the same whether in or out of the classroom; of course, with the online students, there's also the issue of self-discipline and time management that might initially attract some to take the course to begin with ("hey, I don't have to actually show up to a regularly-scheduled class--cool!")  If that's their attitude, it shows up pretty quickly, either in late turn-in of assignments, poor or "last-minute" writing quality, or both.

I suppose this is all, in a sense, to agree with your point about the pedagogical difficulties of being online.  While we can certainly do real-time or chatroom discussions in an online class, these aren't a 100% substitute for real personal in-class "face-time."  On the other hand, if I have students who understand the nature of the quasi-independent study feel, and who have those strong skills coming in (and thus, in effect, simply need to transcript the hours for what they already can do with a fair degree of competency coming in), these folks tend to do pretty well.   Of course, as a CC, we deal with similar skills problems in our classroom classes as well, and it's not unusual to have high attrition in either Comp I or II because students really should have been placed in a developmental class first.  (Placement problems are a whole different issue--don't get me started! LOL)

What I do know, as I mentioned in my OP, is that our CC's online enrollments are rising in all disciplines and courses, probably in no small measure due to gas prices, but more and more because our campus serves a very blue-collar, working class, and largely lower-income service area, and these folks need some options for scheduling course work around their jobs if they're ever to be able to get a college education.

Having said all this, I would never want to teach exclusively on-line, either here or in one of those online degree schools; but, for the students who can do well in this situation, I think it makes great sense to offer these classes as a option within a broader traditional college setting.

[%sig%]

[Sweetheart]

Thanks to all for chiming in--I appreciate hearing from you all.

Eternal Adjunct raises another point I missed (hard to imagine, the way I do run on --sorry!)--that point is about the relative anonymity of the online course being something of an encouragement to more shy/quiet students to get involved in discussions.  And EA, in my experience, the grading online DOES get faster as you do it longer.  The first semester, I gave in and printed out every essay, because I found it tough to read/edit/comment purely onscreen.  But after doing it awhile, I've realized that (thanks to MS Word's editing/reviewing feature) I can actually mark and grade essays much faster online than on paper--so much so that I've had my classroom classes submitting all THEIR work online via Blackboard this spring, too!  It sure saves lugging around a ton of papers to grade, and now whenever I have a few spare minutes and a computer, I can actually be getting something done, whether I've brought a stack of grading along home or not.

To Thundering Marshmallow and LarryC, it's good to hear your experiences in this area as well.  TM, you mention something that I've actually found really beneficial, and that is precisely the idea that I do have to be more precise and not take things for granted!  And LarryC, how I envy you--wish I could have had this gig when my girls were little, too.  (Now they're in college and HS--that age where they're just as glad Mom ISN'T around so much . . . !)

[USD]

I have been teaching a physcial science course online for six years, including the lab. I've been teaching the same course in the classroom for the past 16 years. I created the online class to match the classroom course as closely as possible, and I think I've been successful.

I give students in both classes the exact same lecture and lab exams. Average grades in the classroom are about 82%, maybe less. Average grades for students taking the online version are consistently about 95%. My classrooms are filled with 18 year olds, while non-trads (read, mature adults) take the online class.

Now, who isn't learning the material?

[E. F.]

I've been teaching online courses for a few years now and I prefer them to traditional classes. However, it has taken a ton of work, trial-and-error, and a little suppression of the performer's ego on my part to make my online classes function well.

"anon2" has some good points, but the problem sometimes centers around instructors more than students. Good online instruction requires training, and many colleges offer nothing in this regard. We are just supposed to magically know how this new platform will or will not work for students and ourselves. So some online classes are going to suck until the instructors figure out what they are doing.

Also, many colleges offer no orientation for potential online students, and classes can get loaded with students who have no clue what they are getting themselves into.

One frustrating problem I encounter too often is that most of our administrators have never taught or taken an online course and have no idea what is involved in the process, the amount of time it takes to develop a good online class, and the amount of time it takes to teach a good online class. They think we just post our lecture notes in WebCT and then drink beer at our home computer while we chit-chat with students.

[anon2]

Thanks everyone for your comments -- I am surprised and heartened.

[Alan]

USD wrote:

> I have been teaching a physcial science course online for six
> years, including the lab. I've been teaching the same course in
> the classroom for the past 16 years. I created the online class
> to match the classroom course as closely as possible, and I
> think I've been successful.
>
> I give students in both classes the exact same lecture and lab
> exams. Average grades in the classroom are about 82%, maybe
> less. Average grades for students taking the online version are
> consistently about 95%. My classrooms are filled with 18 year
> olds, while non-trads (read, mature adults) take the online
> class.
>
> Now, who isn't learning the material?

That's not necessarily an easy comparison to make. What materials do the classroom students have available and what do the online students have available during exams?

I've talked a lot to some instructors who teach online classes because I want to do a hybrid chemistry class (lecture online, come in for labs a number of times during the quarter). One thing I've heard from many of them is to make sure there is a participation grade. There may be little that can be done to keep online students from using materials like books, buddies, and other methods to cheat. Some schools require exams to be proctored.

How do you conduct the online exams? I'm not saying that your online students are cheating. I am just curious and I want to know if there are some pointers I can pick up for my future class.

Alan

[another anon]

I've been adjuncting and have discovered that the pay for online teaching is the same as for f2f classroom teaching.  Now, with that in mind, why would I drag my butt to campus?

I figured out that it takes me 10 hours a week to get to campus, park, walk to my office, assemble class stuff, have my 75 min class, walk back, have office hours, and drive home.  This is for a class I had taught before, and does not include any grading or other prep time.  I can do a heck of a lot of online teaching in that same 10 hours!  More of my time is spent interacting with the students in online teaching that it ever was in my f2f classes.  

I do miss some of the energy of traditional classrooms, and have worked hard to ensure that my material in my online classes is comparable (I teach the same online and traditional).  I'm also lucky in that I've gone through faculty training for online teaching for two separate institutions, and that helps a lot.  I'd second someone's point above that some of the problem is bad teachers, but that happens in traditional classrooms as well.  Also, the community college that I teach online for (where the enrollment is skyrocketing), has a very rigorous quality assurance policy, and our performance is highly monitored.  This is in stark comparison with my traditional teaching, where (since I'm an adjunct I guess), nobody has ever cared about what I do in a classroom!

So, don't knock it until you know something about it!