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[in trouble, I think!]

Hey All,

  Thanks a ton for your thoughts and views!  I am not a troll!  Things have not gotten physical and we have spent the time this weekend totally with our families and spouces to attempt to find our what the hell it is we are missing.  It is not lust!  I just feel so totally and completely myself around her that it makes me wonder what if.......  never felt like that.  My kids are important to me, completely, and I have seen the effects on kids first hand, my wife's parents are divorced and it was hard on her to this day!  I guess counseling would probably be the best route, because her response to her parents divorce is part of the problem we are having!   Thank you all again......

Not a troll!

[Prytania]

Men tend to get married for a particular lifestyle. They don't tend to marry the woman they are madly in love with, so when real love may rear its inconvenient head, then there are too many complications to deal with.

Personally, I don't see how any marriage can survive til death do us part without someone having an affair (exceptions noted), but it seems crazy to break up families and assets at a certain point when discretion may work better.

[geobabe]

Prytania wrote:

> Men tend to get married for a particular lifestyle. They don't
> tend to marry the woman they are madly in love with, so when
> real love may rear its inconvenient head, then there are too
> many complications to deal with.


Do you really think this?  What about women, what do you think women marry for?

Do you imply that most (or many) affairs are motivated by 'true love'?

[anon]

Put the needs and feelings of your spouse and kids first.  And put integrity and honoring your vows before your own shifting emotions.  You made the promise.  Keep it.

Men should treat women right.

[mouse]

I'm not going to make a moral judgment about whether you should stay in your marriage, which I know nothing about.  I mean for all we know, your wife and kids take turns beating you.

My advice is: Make up your mind FIRST.  Go on retreat if that's what it takes.  List the pros and the cons.  List the knowns and the unknowns.  Be honest with yourself about what you know and what you are fantasizing might be the case.  Identify the problems and potential problems with either choice.  Think about what kind of a person you are.

THEN take action.  That might mean transferring this person to another lab and going to counseling with your wife.  Or it might mean changing your whole life to be with the other woman.

[My take]

Men give affection to get sex.  Women give sex to get affection.  Marriage is a quaint anachronism.  If, at point of orgasm, people were to rationally decide if they wanted this particular pregnancy at this particular time, the overwhelming response would be "no."

Most people feel trapped in their marriage after a relatively short time and this leads to situations such as the OP is experiencing.

[in trouble, I think!]

My take and all,

   Thanks again for the advice.....  I want to reiterate again that fantasy in the sense of 'carnal relations' has little to do with this 'attraction'.  Nothing physical has happened.......  I have been in my relationship for 15 years, 12 married...... I finished my PhD while married..... and had 3 kids in the process.  Perhaps, the idea of this attraction is what entices me, mostly because I never thought that possible till now.  It's not about integrity, nothing has happened!  But perhaps integrity is measured by willingness or not to discuss the possibilities.

    It's not about being fair to my wife and family because I am being fair, hence the weekend soul-searching with them and the post on this forum, which in case you couldn't tell..... I do appreciate and value your responses.  It's not about making a promise and trying to keep it, it is about examining that promise and finding the loopholes that all too often exist, especially in places where we seldom or ever look.  I don't know what it is that I am 'missing' or if that is even the case.  Perhaps I am 'finding' something.

Also, Prytania..... thank you for putting it in perspective, when perhaps a little 'discretion' would work better.

By that I assume you mean, don't go changing  your life for something that might end tomorrow.....  Thank you for that again....  And to you all.

[Anon2]

Are you sure she feels the same way? I mean, it sounds like she has the same attraction to you, but do you think she is enjoying the flirtation or that she is, like you, seriously considering leaving her spouse and child?

Also, how long have you know the other woman? I'm wondering if this is something that will fade. Maybe a case of "the grass is always greener."

[melba]

You don't have to act on the feelings. Keep telling yourself, the feelings of attraction just don't matter. They're like having the flu, annoying but survivable. Do you really want to change your entire life based on the push and pull of hormones and pheremones? Sure, our biology wires us to be attracted to "novel" partners, but as humans we can transcend this. Jump into this new relationship, you'll make a sorry mess of your life, your relationship with your kids AND by the time your kids have gotten over it, the new relationship will have lost its shine.

[anon]

melba wrote:

> AND by the time your
> kids have gotten over it, the new relationship will have lost
> its shine.

Presuming, of course, that kids (or spouses) get over it....

[googler]

Can you stand one more piece of advice?  Go to Google, type in "emotional affair".  Read and learn.  

Other people here have underestimated the importance of what you are going through.  Good luck, I mean it.

[boyo]

we haven't underestimated the importance of feelings, but rather with kids and spouses involved, we have emphasized the importance of responsibility to others, not ratinalized indulgence or selfishness of pursuing such an affair...

[googler]

People whose advice consisted of "grow up and get over it" were just trivializing the situation (you are obviously not one of those).   It's also dangerous to think that just because there's no sex (yet), it's not an affair.   The sex is secondary.  The most damaging component of what we typically call "an affair" has already occurred.  The people who suggested counselling were right on the mark.

[interesting]

I don't believe in fate, or that there is one and only person out there for each individual that will meet all of their needs.

Each relationship involves something different. Every relationship has its good parts and its bad parts. Research suggests that people focus more on bad things (negative changes, sickness as opposed to health, punishments more than rewards, etc) than on good things. So it makes sense that after a few years with one person, the bad things about them might stand out more than the good things.

When you meet someone new, they're often presented in their best light. You see mostly the positive... and that can contrast strongly with the negative that you might notice with your current partner. You might emotionally click with this new person, selectively reflecting on how you clicked with your current partner years before things became routine and perhaps somewhat stale.

So as you step back trying to evaluate your feelings, consider these issues. It's really difficult to objectively determine if your feelings for this new person would fade away as you got to know her and her flaws, or if you would develop a better partnership with her than your current wife, given what different relationship stages you are in with these two women. Individual counseling as well as marital counseling might help.

Good luck.

[in trouble, I think!]

Again, I want to thank you all for your comments..... and thoughts.... and well wishes.