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[see and...]

...the thing is, Male Grad Student would have been understood had he beat that man to a bloody pulp. Sure, he might have been arrested, but people would have understood and Male Grad Student is assumed to have that option, yet didn't use it. Whereas, you have a 120lb woman vs. Senior Male who is, probably, bigger than most of the women there and women aren't expected to have those sorts of responses and instead are told to "grow a thicker skin."

Having worked at jobs outside of the ivory tower, I am consistently amazed at the bizarre behavior that is considered acceptable. I wish there was a way to approach these issues without becoming overly litigious, but I honestly don't know what to do when deans don't respond and HR runs you around. I'm thinking of myself here, of course. I have a collegue who has no power to fire or promote me, yet this person has the power to make me want to throw up whenever I'm around him. He touches me when I don't even know he's behind me, he make terrible remarks that he thinks is flirting, asks me out even though I'm engaged, and is generally terrible and awful. He doesn't read (or refuses to read) my body language and has literally not heard my forceful, "Don't touch me. Don't talk about sex with me. I don't want to date you." He hangs around my office, memorizes my places on campus, and so on. I am worried he's going to follow me home some night and hurt me.

The culture of the university makes this sort of thing acceptable. It makes me sick. Why is this sort of thing acceptable?

Should I just "grow a thicker skin"?

[disgusted]

k16 wrote:

> Professor Hotsh*t is lucky the male grad student did not beat
> him to a bloody pulp for such a remark.

Actually, he wasn't a grad student but ran the communications end of this guy's research institute (I was also on staff, not a grad student). But it might have been worse if he was a grad student -- you figure your career is hanging in the balance. The guy finally left and took a hefty pay cut to do it. He was one in a long line of people who got fed up with being treated disrespectfully. It wasn't just sexual, but it was definitely a hostile work environment. Ugh! Unfortunately, a lot of us (including me) spent too much time wondering what *we* could do differently to stop *his* bad behavior.

[%sig%]

[iron curtain Rod]

anonymous wrote:

> Geez, you guys, why so thin-skinned? I was just joking. Can't
> you take a joke? I guess it must be "that time of the month" or
> something.
>


Just in case:  isn't it clear to everyone that both offended and Orwell were unserious?

[mouse]

The discussion of "equal protection" is of course dead-on, but why the assumption that jetsetter is in the United States?  From her spelling of "behaviour" (vs. the American "behavior") I assumed that she is not.

To play devil's advocate for a moment on the question of "Why is sexism tolerated while racism is not?"  I think it is because sexism is far more variously defined.

In a hypothetical (NOT jetsetter's) case, let's say a man has a screensaver on his work computer that features naked women posed in flattering and alluring positions.  This is inappropriate, no argument.  But is it inappropriate because it is sexism, or is it just plain sex?  For one thing, I sure like to look at naked men (at home, not work), and I hope it doesn't make me a sexist!  For another thing, having a screensaver with pictures of black people on it doesn't make one a racist.

So having the screensaver is sex, not sexism.  What if he has it where women can see it?  Is it sexism depending on whether those women are offended or not?  If they are offended, and tell him that they would like him to get a screensaver they find less offensive, is he sexist to refuse, or just a rude idiot?  What if he refuses to modify it when asked by offended male co-workers as well?  (Note that if he had pictures of black people and his co-workers were offended by that, the co-workers would be racist, right?)

My point is that it isn't a question of whether poor behavior should be tolerated or not.  It shouldn't be tolerated, and it is the responsibility of department chairs and deans (not grad students and postdocs) to see that it is not.  There is a question, though, of how far the law should extend into the workplace, and in what cases.  There are outrageous cases of sexual and racial harassment and discrimination -- many more of them than we ever hear about.  There are also a lot of grey-area cases in which the person involved is "merely" inappropriate, rude, and poorly socialized.

[Annoyed]

It is inappropriate because it is sexual harrassment. It is sexual harrassment because it creates a hostile work environment for the OP. Looking at porn at home does not create a hostile work environment and is an entirely different matter altogether.  All legal precedent suggests that posters or screensavers of naked women contribute to a hostile work environment. It is illegal and women should not have to grow 'thicker skin' or find a new job. This is an absolutely clear cut issue and women need to *stop* being afraid to report sexual harrassment to their chairs, union stewards or HR.

I am shocked that so many posters on this forum believe that female professors should grit their teeth and submit to sexual harrassment. This kind of behavior will never be eliminated from the academy if women (and men) remain afraid of speaking out against sexual harrassment. Sexual harrassment is not funny and it is illegal.

[Yeah but]

the original poster is not from the US so all your crud about laws might not apply.

[Tenured Feminist]

"Women have historically had a lesser position in the workplace, civil rights legislation makes that historic relegation of women as second class citizens illegal, breaking those laws reinforces the idea that women are inferior"

Well, your grammar is certainly inferior and it makes all of we sisters look bad.  Learn to use a semi-colon.

[Twanda]

    I have encountered this behavior in a number of workplaces, academic  and in the business sector. This is 2006, "boys will be boys," "can't you take a joke," and "grow a thick skin" just don't cut it anymore. If you are making excuses like this for sexual harrassment YOU are part of the problem. I love a good joke as much as the next person and honestly I'm usually the one who can bring a little humor to even the toughest situation but it takes a real idiot not to understand when they are crossing the line on a regular basis.    
   In two different situtations involving piers, I confronted them point blank and in no uncertain terms told them that their behavior was unacceptable. They both seemed embarrassed, were apoligetic and the behavior ended immediately. On a third occaision, I gathered evidence including pornographic material posted in the workplace, documented the behavior and filed a complaint. While it took a while, my issue with him was not the only one and he was eventually asked to leave. On a fourth occaision the problem was with a tenured superior, luckily 3 other women in the department filed a sexual harrassment suit and I only had to tell the truth when called to testify. He was not fired but he was removed from all situtations that left him alone with students and he was edged into early  retirement. In my experience if someone is as bad as you descirbe, you are probably not alone in your dismay.

[Hello]

No, you should check in to a psychiatric facility ASAP.

[Mendel]

Yeah but wrote:

> the original poster is not from the US so all your crud about
> laws might not apply.


Yup- but her country may have similar or related laws worth checking out.

Crud?  very nice.

[boyo]

"He recently put a pornographic screen saver on our administrator's PC without telling her..."

Did this person report the incident? Or was did she express a concern to you directly about this? Unless you think that this person is being intimidated into silence, this particular incident isn't your business.  

Now, on the wider issue of the senior administrator's behavior....

"He makes sexually explicit comments in meetings..."  

Is this just your opinion, or is it shared by others in the department?  If it is the latter, then I suggest you gather up a number of people and bring the issue up (as a group) wiith HR. If the others don't feel this is creating a hostile workplace, or refuse to get involved, then the issue won't go anywhere with the administration. If others agree (and this assumes it isn't a department of his buddies), then the group approach will increase the chances that the issue gets dalt with seriously, and limits the blame you might get...

[Other Senior Prof]

Tenured Feminist wrote:

> "Women have historically had a lesser position in the
> workplace, civil rights legislation makes that historic
> relegation of women as second class citizens illegal, breaking
> those laws reinforces the idea that women are inferior"
>
> Well, your grammar is certainly inferior and it makes all of we
> sisters look bad.  Learn to use a semi-colon.

Or, better yet, learn to use a period, and recall what Vonnegut said about semicolons. We use them to show we learned punctuation in college, but they are really the hermaphrodites of writing.

Am I a period; or, a comma?

[Sensitive]

oh! that's why I like semicolons so much.
ambiguity.


Other Senior Prof wrote:

> Or, better yet, learn to use a period, and recall what Vonnegut
> said about semicolons. We use them to show we learned
> punctuation in college, but they are really the hermaphrodites
> of writing.
>
> Am I a period; or, a comma?