The Chronicle: Colloquy Live Transcript

Taking Control of the Classroom

Wednesday, September 15, at 2 p.m., U.S. Eastern time

Three years ago, Delaney J. Kirk had a class from hell. It upset her enough to make her rethink her teaching strategy. Now Ms. Kirk, a professor of management at Drake University, travels to college campuses as a paid consultant to help other professors learn how to control their classrooms. She says there are simple things faculty members can do to make their classes run more smoothly, such as establishing their authority on the first day of the semester. She says rude and disruptive students are a bigger problem now than ever before. Are students becoming less civil? Can bad behavior undermine good teaching? What can professors do to make their classes listen and learn?

» Taking Control of the Classroom (9/17/2004)

Delaney J. Kirk, a professor of management at Drake University, teaches workshops on how professors can control their classrooms.

A transcript of the chat follows.

Thomas Bartlett (Moderator):
Hello, and welcome to The Chronicle's live colloquy on classroom behavior. Thanks to our guest, Delaney J. Kirk, a professor of management at Drake University, for joining us today.

I'm Thomas Bartlett, a reporter here, and I'll be moderating today's chat. We look forward to your comments and questions.

Okay, let's get started.

Question from Clive Extence, Bryant & Stratton, Milw. WI:
How do you not scare students away in that first class when you 'set the tone' for acceptable behavior?

Delaney J. Kirk:
Hmmm...scaring them away is a bad thing? Seriously, I find that most students want to know your expectations for acceptable behavior and will follow your policies if they see them as reasonable, fair, and you are consistent in applying them. I present it to them that when they get that "first real job" after college, it would be useful to know their bosses' pet peeves. I'm just telling them how to be successful in my workplace (classroom).

Question from Tom Grady, Bristol Community College:
What of the compulsive participant? I�ve tried to discreetly counsel this type of student (�Three comments a day is a good cap, Joe.�) to limit the ceaseless barrage, but often the student simply can't control himself or he ends up demonizing me.

Delaney J. Kirk:
As you know, we want Joe to speak up the first few weeks of class. However, it can get to be too much of a good thing and you will know this when you see the other students rolling their eyes. I have tried several things: thank Joe for participating and then say I want comments from others who don't usually participate. Require students to raise their hand to make comments and then make eye contact and move toward other students. Perhaps give Joe a role to do (write down the suggestions to a problem given by the other students). Also, consider giving Joe some individual time outside of class to satisfy his need for attention.

Question from Patrick Powers.small private,non religious college:
Students seem to unhesitatingly use vulgar expressions in their class discussions. Terms which they probably use in conversation with each other, but seem to me to be out of bounds for an academic exchange. If I corrected them each time, my corrections would be frequent and interruptive. They don't seem to blink at these expressions, but I do.

Delaney J. Kirk:
I think you have to make them aware that these expressions are not appropriate in the work world and that you are helping to prepare them to be successful in that world. Part of the problem, as you noted, is that they don't realize that they are using these expressions because they are used to hearing them from their friends, tv, songs, etc. Yesterday one of my students referred to a woman as a "chick." I turned to him and jokingly said I was not aware that we had livestock in the classroom. Everyone laughed and I think he will not use that term in referring to women again...at least not in front of me.

Question from Dave Bloomquist, U. Florida:
Is there a class size threshold that allows rude behavior to flourish? That is to say, one would think that bad behavior is proportional to the number of students in a class, but this does not appear to be the case.

Delaney J. Kirk:
I don't think there is. I have taught large sections of 80-100 students and small classes of 15. My "class from hell" that started my whole epiphany three years ago that I wasn't managing the class well had just under 30 students.

Comment from Dave Bloomquist, UF:
Not a question, but a suggestion, for the complusive student. Someone had the idea of passing out poker chips (3) to each student. They had to use them up at the end of class. So the reticent ones must participate while the others have to limit theirs.

Question from Helen Johnson, HEJ Associates:
Investigations show that our current crop of college students (the Millennials) are far more accepting of and acquiescent to authority than the our most recent generation of students (the X generation). What is your perspective on why these students are disruptive in the classroom? How does technology (cell phones, lap tops, instant messaging) figure in this phenomenon? Thanks! Helen Johnson

Delaney J. Kirk:
Why? Because they can? Because they see this type of behavior in other places? Because we don't tell them no and it doesn't occur to them that this behavior would be rude? When was the last time you were in a meeting and someone's cell phone rang. Yesterday it happened here at a faculty meeting.

Question from Peter Carusone, Emeritus, Wright State University:
To what extent is it the faculty's responsibility to make the subject/classes interesting, and even entertaining?

Delaney J. Kirk:
While we may not like to think we have to be entertaining, these students are used to being entertained by tv, videos, computer games, etc. We have to get their attention before they can learn from us.

Question from jack belck, university of nebraska at omaha:
How about adding to course material grades another for deportment? This would appear on students' transcripts and assuredly would-be employers would hesitate to hire even a 4.0 grad who scored a D on this measure of classroom behavior.

Delaney J. Kirk:
I like it! Think we can get it past administration?

Question from Pam Jackson, Colorado State University:
How do you identify a question that is respectful and challenges a statement by the instructor, and a question that is not respectful and meant to upstage the instructor? Defining the latter type of question goes beyond the actual wording of the question. It includes a certain demeanor - the student's tone and body language. Sometimes that's hard to convey to a third person. Is there a better way to describe such disruptive questions?

Delaney J. Kirk:
I had a male student that challenged me every day when I first came to Drake University 15 years ago. After about two weeks of this, I realized it was a challenge to me and not the subject matter and that it was disruptive to the class. I asked to see him after class, told him I thought we had a personality conflict, and that I would be happy to sign his drop slip. He backed down, said no, there wasn't a problem, and behaved from then on.

Question from Ian McGregor, University of Technology, Sydney, Australia:
During the lecture, the conversaton level continues to rise - making the lecture theater more like a cafe or bar - than a lecture theater. Any particular effective interventions - that colleagues would suggest?

Delaney J. Kirk:
I have several suggestions that I have used and would welcome comments from others. Sometimes I stop and ask the students that are talking if they have a question or need me to clarify something. I may just stop talking and make eye contact with the talkers. Or I may move physically toward the talkers. On occasion I have asked a group of students to stay after class and explained to them that I don't mind a little discussion on the side, but if it is so loud that I really notice it, then it is disruptive to the class and they need to stop.

Comment from DB, UF:
Gosh, I am using up my poker chips! One way of creating an atmosphere of shared governance is to state that disruptive student(s) will trigger a pop-quiz for the entire class. This makes everyone a "police" and produces a concomitant peer pressure to behave.

Comment from James Montgomery, DePaul University:
Here is my experience. Dr, Kirk has nailed this subject directly and forthrightly. A few years ago I commented to my Dean that I was concerned about classroom behavior. He instantly dismissed me as a sniveling assistant professor who had not yet cut his teeth in the classroom. Well, I reached my zenith with students' bad behavior last year in a large introductory environmental science class. So during the winter break I redesigned my syllabi for the courses I teach in our general education program. In the syllabi I include my expectations of my students, as well as espectations that students should have of me. I articulate acceptable and unacceptable behaviors, and I spend the entire first class lecture going over these expectations. I convey to my students that the syllabus is an official BINDING contract between me and them. This has really helped defuse potentially debilitating issues in and outside of the class, and the students seem to appreciate knowing exactly what is expected of them. Is it more work for me to monitor and manage? Yes, a bit. But it has made for a lot more productive (and dare I say "fun") experience for me and my students. Just as parents model behavior for their children, so too do professors model behavior for their students. I would be glad to share my syllabi with anyone participating today.

Question from Carolyn WVSU:
Any suggestions for habitually tardy students? I address this issue on the first day of class and in my syllabi, and I also use techniques such as giving quizzes early in the class to use as quick assessments for talking points, but roughly 10% of those present tend to be late, particularily in lower-level courses.

Delaney J. Kirk:
I tell my students that just as managers can't MAKE their employees do anything in the workplace, I can't make them come to class on time. But I can set consequences and enforce this. Be sure to address the first day what your policy is, why you have this policy, and then be consistent in enforcing it. A few reminders would be appropriate. Keep in mind that if students come in late and you don't address this (either at that moment or after class), you have essentially said the behavior is ok.

Question from Holly, Marquette University:
Have you found gender differences with regards to behavior issues? My assumption is boys are more active, and less likely to "behave" in the classroom.

Delaney J. Kirk:
I haven't really noticed gender differences in terms of more likely to misbehave. There may be differences in the ways male and female students try to get attention in class.

Comment from Joyce Jones, Dean of Students at Augusta State University:
It seems to me that more students are arriving with long-standing emotional problems that often contribute to inappropriate behavior in the classroom. With declining community mental health resources, what are others doing to assist these students, who often need a lot of attention from counselors and often come to the attention of faculty and public safety again and again.

Question from John Doeson, Oklahoma St. U.:
I understand that we have now encountered the generation of students who have grown up with standardized testing. Furthermore, these students have been influenced greatly by the internet and getting results by simply pointing and clicking. As a result, a certain element of laziness has driven their need to simply be "taught the test" (gimme the answers, that's all I want!)--not to mention their need to be "entertained" in the classroom. I am a proponent of having strong teaching skills, but what do you think of students whining about not having the lecture notes online? This is the repeated question I get from students--simply because it would be "easier" for them to take notes in class, not to mention that I "don't show any cool videos or stuff!"

Delaney J. Kirk:
I don't put my lecture notes online because I think they need to take some notes in order to be engaged in the classroom. If they already have the notes, they become passive or don't even come to class. I do put together a lecture outline on which they can make their notes which keeps them and me organized.

Question from Sue, Rollins College:
I do a large part of my teaching online. Do you have any tips on how to respond to an email or posting that is clearly not well constructed and comes across as a personal attach (to the professor or to other students).

Delaney J. Kirk:
I would have a one-on-one conversation with the student, not accusing him/her of personal attack but pointing out how others might see it as such. Part of it is letting the student know that you're watching and are aware.

Comment from someone who has never heard of Dave Bloomquist, UF:
I came up with a very effective method of encouraging student participation (in my engineering course)that might work for a disruptive atmosphere. Each day I draw a vertical line with horizontal tic marks on it on the far side of the blackboard. At the top, it says, "Very Difficult", the bottom, "Easy" and the middle, "Average". I place a dot at the average or midpoint each day. I call it the "TESTOMETER" and if students do not participate, I move the dot upwards, stating that since there are no questions, they all understand the material and I can make the test harder. Of course over time, now all I have to do is start walking towards it and the hands come up. Perhaps it would work for the disruptors(?)

Question from Christine Grela, McHenry County College:
I teach a Human Sexuality class at a community college, and sometimes there is an issue of being open to multiple discussions while staying on target. How can we best deal with a student who is overly interested in pursuing an off-topic/inappropriate question? These students are not necessarily rude, but equally disruptive to the class.

Delaney J. Kirk:
I might just invite them to come to my office to discuss the question later but tell them right now I needed to cover the material that will be on their next test!

Comment from Michael Bautista, Auraria Higher Education Center:
Why haven't college instructors looked to their colleagues in the Public School sector to see how they set their parameters during the first day and week of school? I have been in the public school sector for 16 years, taught classes and it is imperative to rule with an iron fist the first day, then during the semester you can back off. Also, specific expectations are essential, not generalities. A complete syllabus is very essential, the student has to know what is expected from the instructor the very first day.

Question from Bob Nadell, Cypress College:
Faculty generally do a good job of informing students about their academic expectations, both in writing and in class. Are you an advocate for faculty to do the same for behavioral expectations?

Delaney J. Kirk:
Yes. I have a section in my syllabus that addresses my expectations for acceptable behavior. For example, I note that "Students will be expected to spend the entire period in class. Exceptions to this rule should be approved by me prior to the class period." Email me at delaney.kirk@drake.edu and I will send you the entire list of classroom management rules that I include on my syllabus.

Question from Anonymous, community college in the west:
There is a student who gets upset with peers who ask questions frequently during class and last week stood up and singled out one student in particular and told her she had to stop asking so many questions. This student has also said (in front of the class while I was lecturing) that I provided incorrect information on two handouts (I didn't). There is a division among the class and the conflict has lead to having the whole class is out of control. The students want to control the class and make the rules. Those students who were told to stop asking questions are now demanding to ask questions. With 16 years of teaching at 2 and 4 year institutions, my teaching partner and I are at a loss as to what is happening and how to handle this group. These students are in a professional health related program and all have college degrees in other fields. Any suggestions?

Delaney J. Kirk:
This sounds like the "class from hell" I had three years ago. I was shocked because at the time I had almost 20 years of teaching experience and thought I had a reputation. I finally went back into my class, apologized that I wasn't doing a good job conveying my expectations and managing the class, and yet was getting angry because the students weren't meeting those expectations. I then established new rules for the rest of the semester. I thought my evaluations would be bad at the end but they were not. It seemed the students wanted me to take charge. I would probably have a private conversation with the student who got upset, perhaps even ask her advice as to what I could do to improve the class? Try to get her on my side, in other words.

Question from Eric, small community college:
What happens when the Dean, who is your boss, does not realize that a student is acting out in class and takes the student side?

Delaney J. Kirk:
Invite the Dean to sit in on one of your classes.

Question from Joanne LaFramenta, U. of Florida:
How does one handle the ONE student who reads the newspaper discreetly during an interactive class about how to teach mathematics?

Delaney J. Kirk:
Keep in mind that the other students are looking to see how you handle this. Next thing you know, you have two students reading the paper... Keep in mind that if you haven't said anything to this student, you have essentially said it's ok to read the newspaper in my class. Talk to him/her.

Thomas Bartlett (Moderator):
Thanks to Delaney J. Kirk for taking part in today's chat. Thanks also to everyone who asked a question -- I'm sorry we couldn't get to all of them (this is a very popular topic, apparently!). Until next time, take care.

Delaney J. Kirk:
Thank you for your questions. I have really enjoyed this. Feel free to email me at delaney.kirk@drake.edu with any further questions or comments.