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Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Colloquy Moderator
Date: 05-21-04 13:30
Partly because of prodding from the Bush administration, research
in elementary and secondary education is increasingly organized around
randomized experiments. Is that a misguided trend that ignores the
realities of the classroom, or is it a long-overdue attempt to make
education research truly rigorous? Read more ...
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Glenn Graber, U of Tennessee
Date: 05-24-04 09:11
It is naive to expect that any one research methodology will do the
job for studying elementary and secondary education or any other topic.
It all depends on what you want to study. There may well be some
aspects of education that can be quantified, controlled, randomized;
but there are equally other aspects that would be distorted by being
forced into such a mold.
It would be ironic just at a time when qualitative studies are
proliferating in the health care fields that education should abandon
the methods that have yielded important insights in the past in favor
of a lock-step quest for "scientific rigor." Randomized clinical trials
are great for studying the effectiveness of drugs, but they are not
well suited for learning about many important aspects of the healing
process.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Michael Poteat
Date: 05-24-04 10:57
The argument that one exceptional teacher could skew the results of
a randomized study to the extent that the results would have no
"internal" validity suggests that the effect size of the independent
variable (the treatment) is trivial. Nonetheless, the unit of analysis
should be the classroom and not individual children. That is, a study
conducted with a 1000 students in 50 different classrooms (e.g., with
20 students in each class) divided into a control and experimental
group should be evaluated using the mean value of the dependent
variable for each classroom. So if the sample sizes are equal, you
would have n = 25 for the experimental and control groups. The error
variance is between classrooms (within each group) and not between
students and the degrees of freedom (for an independent t-test) would
be 48 and not 998.
This topic is covered in Stanley and Campbell's classic text. However,
most designs in education use the student as the experimental unit.
Note, that if the above procedure is followed then the variation
between teachers within a group will contribute to both error and
treatment variance. One could of course, by chance, end up with all of
the excellent teachers in the experimental (or the control) group but
randomization makes this unlikely and that is the entire purpose of
using experimental designs and statistical inferences.
Experimental design and statistics will not always lead to the correct
treatment for everyone. Even in pharmacology, the drug or chemotherapy
that works bests for the group may not be effective for every
individual. Experimental design and statistics are about making better
decisions. Unfortunately, social and educational policy decision are
frequently (usually) made on the basis of theoretical and ideological
beliefs involving the continual regurgitation of old ideas into new
patterns reflecting the current conventional wisdom. This is compounded
by the real difficulty of doing experimental research in applied
settings.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Skeptic
Date: 05-24-04 13:16
Hey guys, let's get serious. Is this the most interesting colloquy
subject you could find? This is the Chronicle of HIGHER Education and
the principal connection between this subject and HIGHER education is
that it concerns "education research." If we're going to talk about
elementary education let's talk about something we can really sink our
teeth into, like the fact that there's no correlation between what
Americans spend on it and the results that are achieved. Let's talk
about how the beloved seniority system of the teachers' unions
penalizes teachers who relocate, as if we're still living in the
pre-women's rights days when women could be teachers or nurses
(teachers, that is, if they did not get pregnant or, in some locales,
not get married). Let's talk about the high level of support for
voucher programs in the African-American community and the manner in
which politicians deny them such alternatives. We don't have to just
look at so-called 'conservative' issues. Let's talk about the current
opposition to teaching evolution. Where did the elected officials
leading the charge come from? Who educated them?
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Bill Harwood
Date: 05-24-04 15:42
I have no trouble with seeking and funding randomized trials.
Indeed, I welcome increased federal funding of educational research of
all sorts. There has been very little funding for education research
considering this is such a high priority for our nation.
What concerns me most, however, is the phrase "scientifically based
research". Taken superficially, I suppose this to mean that educational
research should be conducted in a way that is like that of scientists.
Science, of course, does not always use randomized trials. I'm not
quite sure how a geologist would do that when faced with strata in a
rock. She must work with what she finds and gather observational data
as well as make other quantitative measurments. Descriptive research is
a key part of doing science along with a wide variety of quantitative
methods. Much of Biology over the past couple of centuries has involved
descriptive research.
Actually, scientists use whatever methods will provide them with
answers to their questions. They will use the evidence gathered
(descriptive and quantitative) to convince colleagues that their
results are correct and meaningful. The community of practice then
determines the value and utility of the work.
It is safe to say that not all scientific research and not all
education research has been meaningful. It may be that educational
researchers are not conducting some of the types of studies that would
provide the desired information. Long-term studies, for example, are a
staple of medical research but are rare in education because of funding
constraints.
But let me remind everyone that there is no "magic bullet". No single
research approach that will answer all questions. The process of
scientific inquiry is complex and iterative. I recommend the policy
folks look more carefully at how science is done. I suggest also that
my education colleagues consider the paper by Burkhardt &
Shoenfield (Dec. 2003, Educational Researcher) regarding how
educational research groups could be organized more like science
research groups. Their suggestions would not change the type of project
one might pursue, but the organization they suggest may allow certain
questions to be more thoroughly and effectively addressed.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: John Garner -- Ivy Tech
Date: 05-24-04 16:39
Having switched to Educational Leadership And Foundations at my
alma mater, Indiana State University after completing my M.S. in
Physics, I am now continuing in ELAF after obtaining my teaching degree
in 1991. Talk about your social scientists...
The current trends in testing and accountability in the State of
Indiana are yielding some unexpected results when compared with surveys
revealing school culture and climate. As you may well know, school
climate and school culture are not the same thing, but they are
intimately related in any social structure.
Preliminary data suggests that those schools with the most positive
climates and the most socially progressive cultures are outscoring
their contemporaries on performance accountability testing like the
ISTEP in Indiana. Undoubtedly, other testing will show the same results
using other valid instruments and research scenerios.
This is not surprising to us who know that the environment of a school
is a very significant thing and how you deal with people on a daily
basis GREATLY affects ALL academic performance outcomes across the
board. This is true in not only education, but also in business and
industry. Similar studies in areas other than education will yield the
same basic results.
However, the "Nation At Risk" supporting crowd has bashed the heads of
those peole who supported these ideas in the legislative arena for at
least two decades, now.
The "fundamentalists" and the "back to basics" crowd had better be
prepared to ingest a generous serving of crow after this research is
done, because from what I have seen, it is very consistant and
repeatable.
These well-intended "back to basics" folk may have indeed fashioned the
noose with which they shall be hung, with their accountability demands
regarding performance testing.
We could draw direct parallels to what the Japanese automobile industry
has done to the American automobile industry in the last 30 - 40 years
and the difference in how Japanese companies as a rule handle
employees. The list goes on and on. What is the trure reason that
industry has "outsourced" jobs from America? Could they know this
already?
In other words, we are in for some dramatic culture shock and drastic
changes if we do what we need to do as a nation to maintain our post as
leader of the free world.
...And you heard it here first...
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Michael Poteat
Date: 05-24-04 17:07
Bill Harwood wrote:
"Actually, scientists use whatever methods will provide them with
answers to their questions. They will use the evidence gathered
(descriptive and quantitative) to convince colleagues that their
results are correct and meaningful. The community of practice then
determines the value and utility of the work."
Science is science because it is based on publicly observable and
replicable experimentation. Harwood is certainly correct that not all
science is based on randomized designs. Much of science is
observational but when research involves determining the relative
effectiveness of different forms of treatment (including educational
interventions) then it becomes desirable to conduct experimental or at
least quasi-experimental studies.
Geologists and paleontologists usually cannot use experimental
manipulation because they are investigating historical events. A better
comparison for education and psychology would be field research in
biology. For some events the researcher can only observe and record but
experimentation is applicable in other situations. Medicine,
agriculture, and biology are examples of disciplines dominated by
experimental research and the progress has been impressive.
Unfortunately for the social sciences and education, I doubt that we
have control of variables that have effect sizes comparable to those of
antibiotics or crop hybridization nor do we have theories with the
explanatory power of evolution.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Gerardo M. Gonzalez, IU
Date: 05-24-04 20:28
I am astounded that anyone in the educational research community
would object to the idea of conducting more "scientifically-based
research" to improve educational practice. As the recent National
Research Council study entitled "Scientific Research in Education"
pointed out, "Scientific research in education can shed light on the
increasingly complex and performance-driven U.S. education system."
Moreover, the NRC study indicated that "At its core, scientific inquiry
is the same in all fields. Scientific research, whether in education,
physics, anthropology, molecular biology, or economics, is a continual
process of rigorous reasoning supported by the dynamic interplay among
methods, theories, and findings."
Surely, randomized experiments have a place in education inquiry. But
as in every other form of scientific study, the appropriateness of the
methods used depends on the nature of the research questions under
investigation. In the case of questions dealing with causation,
experimental and quasi-experimental research designs may indeed be most
appropriate. But as Campbell and Stanley reminded us in their classic
"Experimental and Quasi-Experimental Designs for Research," these types
of studies are subject to substantial threats to internal and external
validity and whatever scientific claims are made based on the results
can be strengthened significantly through testing by multiple methods.
Fundamentally, the problem with the quality of educational research is
not a lack of appropriate methods but rather a lack of adequate
funding. And I hope that the current attention to educational research
will lead to a greater investment of federal research dollars in
education. I am also mindful, however, of the disconnect between a
federal policy that insists on funding only program initiatives
supported by scientific research and their funding of policy
initiatives totally devoid of scientific evidence. This only hurts the
credibility of what is an otherwise noble and much needed call for more
and better educational research.
The faculty of the Indiana University School of Education has engaged
in its own internal conversation about the proper role of scientific
research in education. I believe this is a healthy debate that can only
improve our effectiveness as educational researchers and scholars. And
I only wish that our nation's leaders would likewise engage in an open,
unbiased dialog about the proper role of government in advancing
educational research and improving educational practice.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Paul Rowland, U Montana
Date: 05-25-04 09:55
If education were univariate in outcome the use of randomized
trials might be more useful. As has been noted by many scholars, we
expect our schools to accomplish many different outcomes. Although
there is agreement that young people should be developing basic skills,
there is also strong support for the development of more abstract
thinking skills, development of vocational skills and attitutes,
development of citizenship and development of personal fulfillment. The
problem with a focus on a single outcome variable is that we lose the
effects on the other desired (by many according to Goodlads work from
the 80s) outcomes.
Even if we could -- identify/measure/control/facator -- all the
covariates of the treatments, we would have great difficulty in even
measuring the multiple desired outcomes.
If we are going to look to the sciences for our models we ought to be
looking at ecology (not medicine)--- a field where the models are messy
(often stochastic) and the finding very contextual or local. It is a
field where grand theories have fallen by the wayside and local science
has been melded with local activism to achieve desired outcomes. It
provides interesting analogs to education.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: M Cecil Smith, No Ill Univ
Date: 05-27-04 13:44
I can't imagine where the Chronicle got the idea that randomized
studies have increased in education--the available data certainly don't
support that claim, despite the proddings of Russ Whitehurst and the
randomized trials idolators at the US Dept. of Education. Daniel
Robinson, of the University of Texas-Austin, presented data at the
American Educational Research Association meeting in San Diego in April
of this year, showing that publication of experimental studies in five
of the major educational psychology journals (most likely to publish
experimental education research) and the American Educational Research
Journal has remained very stable over the past decade. About 15 percent
of articles published in AERA are experimental; about 25 percent of
articles published in five ed psych journals (e.g., Journal of
Educational Psychology, Contemporary Educ Psych) are experimental.
There has been no dramatic increase (in fact, no real increase at all)
in published experiments. Given the realities of schools, the costs of
doing experiments, and the lack of available funding to support such
work, we will not see any increase in these studies any time soon.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: DE Teodoru
Date: 05-29-04 17:56
Don't be so passive about the utility of "randomized trials." Now
that medicine is doubting their absolute value, one could well ask
education to justify them too, beyond the argument of a statisitcs 101
course.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: Tamara Peace, Temple U.
Date: 05-30-04 18:32
Experimental research in educational interventions do not seem to
render results that are significant in a consistent and generalizable
manner. Just because a difference may have been noted between groups in
a given study does not mean that there's always a high enough
probability that the difference was due solely to the intervention.
(Usually it's not.)
Another problem seems to stem from a lot of incomplete reading and
analysis of research studies. Reading the full concluding remarks of
research reporting is REALLY important---but a lot of reporting for
large "lay" audiences offer what is really a distillation of the
abstract. Important caveats and insights into other questions which
arose from the experiment are often omitted in the more public
discussions. It's as if somehow the public isn't trusted enough to be
able to follow what researchers mean by a good explanation of the words
"not statistically significant."
The problem with using randomized experimental studies to guide any
sort of policy is that it's a misuse (and often a grave
misinterpretion) of what you do with "results". Inferential statistical
analysis can allow us to make educated and reasonable conjectures---but
we shouldn't be drawing hard and fast conclusions about anything based
on experimentation until after a long time of replication has elapsed
that yields very similar "results" with a high degree of agreement
among the stakeholders. However, when this is pointed out to
policymakers (who understandably have to provide short-term answers to
constituencies who are paying a high premium for educational services)
you run into the problem of having to justify everything from
metholodogies to curricular choices to testing and standardization and
so on.
So we wide up with a well-meaning policymaker reading in a media source
that "such-and-such intervention" raised test scores and the important
part gets left out---that very little of the variance is due to the
intervention itself, making it very hard to justify using it in
"non-lab" settings. This usually means the funding for that particular
research project drys up, and the research team moves on to something
else that will yield hopefully better fruit. The former intervention
certainly shouldn't be used to engineer some sort of nationally
mandated program or set of guidelines for instruction or testing or
what have you---but it shouldn't necessarily be wholly discarded either.
Re-design of research trials is something that I think needs to be put
on the table if the national debate about this is going to be remotely
meaningful. How many times has a basically good research question
foundered due to a lack of follow-up experimentation? The questions are
thus left hanging and sometimes really good ideas and insights dry up.
And it's not just due to lack of funding, though that's a big part of
the issue. Severe communication challenges and limitations between
educators, administrators and researchers; pressures of continuous
publication; the necessity of producing "useful" data, i.e., results
that can be used to not guide but produce policy (which I feel is a
very dangerous undertaking); and the availablility of populations
sufficiently large enough to take into account generalizability are
just some of the other issues that are really problemmatic with regard
to using experimental research results to guide policymaking in
education.
"If we are going to look to the sciences for our models we ought to be
looking at ecology (not medicine)--- a field where the models are messy
(often stochastic) and the finding very contextual or local. It is a
field where grand theories have fallen by the wayside and local science
has been melded with local activism to achieve desired outcomes. It
provides interesting analogs to education." Paul Rowland, Paul Rowland,
U Montana
I really like this analogy: I think the idea of looking at ecological
studies is a very cogent way to look at this issue---schools ARE
ecological in that they are social, local, and political communities
where many stakeholders' goals crisscross and often clash. This is
regardless of whether they are places of primary, secondary or higher
education. In this sense, the interplay of local, national and
international pressures and goals always have to be borne in mind as we
not only set policy, but as we design research projects as well.
Re: Lab coats in grade schools
Author: John Garner
Date: 06-01-04 10:39
Tamara,
You model is well thought out.
This is especially so in light of the circumstance of the conservatives
and the politicians giving the public a view of education that could be
compared to the exaggeration of the ecological implications of the
recent film "The Day After Tomorrow".
Public education and education in general in America is not in any more
trouble than is America society. If you want to impact education you
must first change the attitudes, cultures and climates of Americans in
our cities, towns and neighborhoods.
The problems we see in public education do nothing more than indite
American society in general. The public is very susceptable to
manipulation on both sides of the public education issue, but public
education is a creation of our society.
We would need a whole new discussion to outline these problems. Part of
the problem is with the fact that education, inquiry and learning take
a back seat to such things as sports and public entertainment. In fact,
there is an undertow of a mob attitude toward education. Public
education is well-entrenched in our society. It must be changed from
within by intellectual persuasion. It will never be changed from the
outside by brute force.
Indeed, until everyone pulls together in the same direction public
education will not change. Until we learn that not everything in
America must be torn down to the ground before it can be re-built, the
morass in public education will continue with little progress being
made.
This is true of Primary, Secondary and Post-Secondary education.
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