I can not apologize for what I feel. I do indeed feel that the issue of name usage is trite. My point was that the names in question should reflect positive attitudes toward the group they are using, as well as reflect the history and pride of the school.

I beg to differ with you on your second point. Other Groups have been used as school mascots: Athenians (Mt. St. Mary's College Los Angeles CA), Aztecs (Augsbury College, Minn, MN), Celts (University of St. Thomas Houston TX) Dutchmen (Union College, Schenectady, NY), Maroon's (Roanoke College, VA) Norsemen (Northern Kentucky University, KY), Quakers (Both Wilmington and Guilford Colleges), Rajin Cajuns (University of Louisiana at Lafayette, LA) Scots (College of Wooster) and the Swedes (Bethany College).

Your claim that Notre Dame's "Fighting Irish" is not in the same category as "Indian" mascots using the founders as an example fails as well. "The Leprechaun wasn't always the official mascot of Notre Dame - for years the team was represented by a series of Irish terrier dogs. The first, named Brick Top Shuan-Rhu, was donated by one Charles Otis of Cleveland and presented to Irish head coach Knute Rockne the weekend of the Notre Dame-Pennsylvania game Nov. 8, 1930. A number of terriers later took the role of the school mascot, which usually took the name Clashmore Mike. The Leprechaun was named the official mascot in 1965." Notre Dame was founded in 1842.

And yes, the "Fighting Negroes" wouldn't be allowed primarily because most African Americans do not call themselves "Negroes". However, the "Black Yankees" and the "Birmingham Black Barons" have and if translated to a college team would be accepted in my opinion. The secondary problem is that the general society who makes these names does not fully see a history or value in the African American image. I'm sure though, that a name like the "Zulu's" may be acceptable.

My point regarding PETA, at best, was a poor attempt at sarcasm. The following Florida Orange Growers rib may have given that away. My apologies if no one saw that. I in no way meant to equate the Native American's with animals. However, I do not remember any protest against Ford Motor Company who make such cars like Mustang and Cougar (under Mercury) and the sport truck Navajo (under Mazda, now defunct due to poor sales).

As a descendant of Creek, I do find it honorable that the names of tribes are being remembered and symbolized. Aside from the name, I don't think that UND has asserted ownership over the culture and identity of the Sioux. In fact, the school is a "white" as you could get.

Finally, Ms. Morrigan, in all due respect, I enjoyed your response and have taken some points away to better my own statements. By you using the word "Indian" five times throws me for a small loop. I thought that the term "Indian" was derogatory according to Native American's. But your free usage indicates otherwise to me. So then, would it be acceptable for UND to name themselves the "Fighting Indians" or just the "Fighting Dakotas"? Or is that a trite issue?

-- Mark Flowers, Administrator (posted 2/26, 4:25 p.m., U.S. Eastern time)

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