Podcast: A For-Profit Online College With High Retention Rates

nacrandell

“Nearly 80 percent of freshmen return as sophomores, he says, and technology plays a key role.”

A good source for the numbers can be found at http://www.usnews.com/education/online-education/articles/2010/10/22/online-universities-retention-rate-data.

Of course as a cynic, I would suggest that the improved technology of processing a student’s Federal loan application also assists the retention rates.

tgraham13

“Of course as a cynic, I would suggest that the improved technology of processing a student’s Federal loan application also assists the retention rates.”

I got a chuckle out of this, nacrandell. If only that was all it took to achieve excellence in retention!

kphagen

I believe helping students resolve financial aid difficulties does help retention. I’m sorry to say that I’m not sure where I read this, but one piece of the retention puzzle is how many hours a student has to work. Students who can afford to work less are more likely to stay in a degree program.

chuffed57

You may have seen that in the Gates Foundation study, “Their Whole Lives Ahead of Them”. Work was a major factor.

drchu

You know one way to boost your retention rate is to just make the classes easier. But I’m sure that thought has never crossed the minds of anyone invovled in for-profit education.

gsudduth

Is there anything else to this article? I really don’t think it says anything much at all. Most schools, colleges, and Universities talk: Retention, Retention, Retention and after that recruitment, recruitment. I remember several years ago at a conference in New Orleans where my boss said: ‘ just have a good time.’ I went to several presentations for a private evaluation company that hires out as a retention fix for your campus. There was a University of Texas prof speaking on what they did. When he said they had instructors telephoning students, I thought wow, I wonder if the phones are in the classroom? Today….no problem, I know of online schools that issue cell phones to their instructors, not so much for retention I think, but to track the instructors making the calls. Everybody wants a piece of the federal student aid pie.

jfischman

What about the APU’s claim of widespread data use to improve classroom instruction, and using technology to support coursework? Do you think those topics are worth exploring or following up?

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_OUWICHLJGL6YNQ4S6JZB2AXSEI Eric Remy

How amusing. I was just there with a couple of other folks from my school yesterday and they let us look in fair detail at their systems. (Thanks again Frank!)

I don’t want to give details since it’s their story to tell (and I’m not sure what they want to keep private) but I will say that they have impressive levels of instrumentation for both retention analysis and student assessment of learning, and they’ve thrown really significant resources at both of these areas. Traditional colleges tend to do learning assessment in a rather haphazard way- we tend to be beholden to the political structures and faculty committees that already exist. At APU it really seems like they have everyone on board and are all marching in the same direction. Seeing their stuff really gave us some ideas to think about- don’t assume that because they are an online, for-profit school they are a bunch of idiots.

pridgedallas

Your right, drchu, it doesn’t cross our minds. Mainly because we have to be responsive to employers, and graduating students who are unable to perform in workplace does us absolutely no good, and lots of harm to our reputation.

andrewgw92104

I’m a educational services officer at a large Coast Guard base and MANY of my customers are students “at” American Military University (the APU branch that caters to military personnel). Despite my bias against for-profit higher education, I’ve been impressed with the school’s low-key approach to recruiting, the satisfaction of students I know, the job-hunting success at least two of its graduates have had, and its responsiveness to student problems and my requests for information.

Still, though, I can’t bring myself to pursue another degree via APU. I realize the reason for not doing so is snobbishness (perhaps stemming from the fact I’ve earned my existing degrees through traditional sit-in-class schools). But it’s also due to the fact there’s no way I can preview a course to see if it has the academic rigor I’d expect in a graduate-level program.

Guest

Ah yes . . . “quality” qua “rigor.” I mean to be constructive in suggesting that you become familiar with the construct “suitability to purpose.” It underlies all empirically verifiable notions of quality. The rest are self-referential belief systems.

That said, all programs and courses at all institutions need to become more transparent and course previews is one dimension of this needed change.

Guest

Actually, drchu, it doesn’t work this way . . . another of those apocryphal myths much like the purported high r-squared between grades and end-of-course evaluations. Retention is a complex issue and I am pleased to see these folks approaching it in a systematic way. Doing so will be profitable to them and to their students.

drchu

In the subject matter courses perhaps, but often general education at a for-profit is simply remedial education in disguise.

609zr

Corruption is widespread in all sectors of SK. The suicide rate is approximately 3 people per day. It is one of the most depressing countries in the world. There are no smiles or laughter. There is little talking in social settings and no talking in class or faculty meetings. The tough academic rigor is a myth. Faculty are forced to give 70% A’s and B’s or be fired in spite of the fact that the majority of students are not capable of earning D’s. There are numerous advertisements for faculty positions and the pay is good. Before considering such an assignment, please note that the turnover rate among expatriates (Western and Eastern) is very high and the faculty housing resembles shanty housing. Also, read the American Embassy report from Seoul, SK regarding employment.

My condolences to the family and friends.

patrick_murtha

I completely concur with 19428a. I no longer think the suicide epidemic in Korea is predominantly about mental illness or depression (although there are plenty of those, largely undiagnosed). Rather, it is about weakness. When the going gets tough, people here start looking for an exit. And that approach is validated throughout the culture; I mean, a former President jumped off a cliff, for goodness sake. High-profile suicides (pop stars, reporters, business executives, politicians) are a weekly occurrence. Last year a television presenter known as the “happiness preacher” entered a suicide pact with her husband, who strangled her and then hung himself. An elementary school teacher hung herself in her classroom after failing her assistant principal examination. A female television sports presenter who was clandestinely involved with a professional baseball player tweeted her jump from a 19th floor balcony. I could go on. It get almost macabrely comic after a while. A Korean “South Park” would have a field day.

The South Koreans created a developed country from a third world country in record time, which looks impressive on the surface, but has led to mass maladaption. Guts or cojones in the Western sense are unknown. If the American military were not here to prop up the country, Kim Jong-il would roll in the tanks from North Korea and the South Koreans would fold within a day or two.

demisty

Congratulations on your new, tenure track job! Will we still get great blog posts from you?

policywonk46

Wow, I didn’t think I’d see my own situation here…I went through the same thing while trying to get a tenure-track position. The financial disaster ended a long term relationship and destroyed my credit score. 6 months later I am about to reemerge financially (but teetering on Bankruptcy) but happily employed at a tenure-track position I love. The financial catastrophe you describe, I would guess, is far more common than we think. The August-Sept. “lag” is really difficult and pretty much finished me off to the point of being homeless for 2 months (fortunately I have many friends). Good luck to you, I wish you well in your current position.

http://twitter.com/IsaacSweeney IsaacSweeney

Thanks for writing. Congrats on your position. I feel your pain.

whynotwhynot

The meritocracy is alive and well… hard work, struggle, yadda, yadda, yadda…

The story is not with people who “landed the job” the real story is with all of those currently floating adrift with no prospects and all those who have already died.

juliewhite

So, are you saying that there is not sexism in the academy?

juliewhite

I don’t know why you’d think that I don’t understand that change takes time. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bring up issues when we see such stratification.

madamesmartypants

Re: why there aren’t more full female profs in the sciences: this is an ongoing problem that has been pointed out in numerous studies, like this one:

http://www.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=12062
(you need to download the article)

This blog also makes some great points about why long-term trends in academia disadvantage both men and women, but may be particularly unattractive for women:

http://www.science20.com/adaptive_complexity/academic_science_careers_bad_womenAnd also, if I remember, at least one of Female Science Prof’s articles in the Chronicle discussed research that showed that women with science backgrounds tend to leave academia more often than male scientists. Thus the problem that Julie White has highlighted–that women fail to find academic jobs outside of the community colleges rewarding– is one conclusion that points to a systemic problem, not “personal decisions that women make in their private lives.” It also supports a body of work larger than the 4 female assistants at your college (congratulations).

perpetual_student

The personal is political.

graddirector

Generally little to no sexism at least in my university. I know others will disagree…..

graddirector

Again, maybe…. I am not convinced. I just met a remarkable woman today who is a senior manager at one of our local biotech companies and is married to a faculty member at my institution. She said to me that she chose an industry career over an academic one since it would have been too hard for her and her husband to both find university jobs in the same geographic area. While she has had to bounce around her employment some due to the volatility of the industry, she has always landed a new job in the local area. However, there is a grand total of one major university within driving distance.

zeldha

I am always amazed when people respond in the manner that you responded, “I just met a…” I hear the same response when we address the issue of minorities in the STEM fields. Face it the sciences and most universities continue to be dominated by white males. Just because they allow a few token individuals into their world does not mean we reached equality.

graddirector

To Zeldha,

While I completely appreciate that anecdote is not data…. As a female full professor who has been doing science for decades, I have never heard a single women say that they are not pursuing an academic career at a research university because “it is not a satisfying career choice”. I have heard many many other reasons stated, but never that. I have also never seen a solution to the so-called lack of satisfaction that is at all reasonable in the current climate where 10% or less of federal grant applications in STEM fields are being funded.

raymond_j_ritchie

Numbers games have little to do with how an individual is treated. What proportion of females is supposed to represent equity? I work in plant biology and a typical undergraduate biology class in Australia today is about 75% or higher female whereas 30 years ago it was about 50:50. Should action be taken to reduce this bias? Where are the males?
Last year I played a numbers game on the co-authors of my papers. I worked out that 67% of my co-authors were female. Obvious sexual bias. Should I stop publishing with females for a while?
The major problem in careers in research-oriented STEM is the lousy career structure. The co-incidence of the limited female reproductive window and career establishment is why the F/M ratio in research STEM is < 50:50. Although strenuously denied no career gaps are in practice tolerated in research STEM. Anyone who gets tenure before they are 35 is very very lucky.
My mother was 41 when she had me. Believe me that is not a good idea. She was widowed at 56 with a 15 y-old son to bring up. I am a first generation graduate and probably the last.
I am 57. I have never had a real job as understood by a bank. I could not recommend a research STEM career to anyone who does not have inherited wealth: male, female or someone who claims racial/ethnic minority (REM) status.

Socratease2

I see a class war brewing,I propose turning Swarthmore, Vassar and other expensive private liberal arts schools into gated college communities for the haves and hire “campus watch committees” to make sure no pell grant community college students are found lurking in the (well manicured) bushes. Note to Vassar and the rest, you should probably stop selling school mongrammed hoodies in the campus book store.

danlundquist

For years Pres Hill’s statement “whether we like it or not, families are going to have to bear more of the costs of higher education” has been true. Despite protests, colleges have been able to increase costs successfully. Lurking in the market however is the growing number who CAN’T pay and a growing number who WON’T pay. We have not quite reached the “I’m mad as hell and not going to take it anymore” stage but the proverbial “ceiling” is coming closer.

To the public “climbing walls and saunas” have come to symbolize part of higher ed’s
hangover from the post-2008 go-go days. But the paying public is in a skeptical mood about post-secondary education’s cost structure and college leaders will have to have the difficult
conversations about class size, course load, curriculum – and more – and then be prepared to make some even more difficult decisions.

Though I wish we were not in a “second-best world,” I am glad to hear a reality-based
focus and conversation emerging. Leaders like Cappy Hill have the best understanding of the heart of a great education AND of the new economic realities, and can best lead the difficult conversations ahead with deep commitment and unflinching candor. Because, of course, families — not colleges — decide what they will pay.

wchristie

45 years ago I attended a selective, private liberal arts college. At that time a year’s tuition, room, and board cost approximately 1/4 of my family’s annual income. My parents had saved and invested wisely, and they could afford to send me there. (It also helped that I was an only child.) A few years later the school’s current president also went there. He recently remarked that in his day a summer job would usually be enough to cover the great majority of a year’s costs. Today, with a four-year education costing between $200,000 and $250,000, it is no longer possible to work your way through. Having watched today’s cost problem develop at the schools where I have worked, I am forced to conclude that the poor and the wealthy can now afford to go to any college that accepts them. The poor have no ability to bear a portion of the cost, and the wealthy can afford to bear it all. But the for middle class, however one defines them, the “expected family contribution” is simply unrealistic. The result is not so much class warfare as it is a migration to public institutions. And given the quality of today’s public liberal arts colleges, the privates should be mighty worried about having a continuing supply of highly qualified students.

DonnieMa

The quality we (and my son) most care about is the quality of the classroom experience. My son is getting that at Vassar at a reasonable cost. The school was willing to adjust our EFC when one of the two working parents lost their job and we are grateful and appreciative. We didn’t send our 20 year old 3,000 miles from home so he could be comfy in a spiffy dorm (his is old and plain, actually). He’s going to Vassar for the low student-teacher ratio and the motivated faculty. There are plenty of wealthy kids at Vassar, but also kids like our boy who will spend the summer working in fish processing in Alaska to earn money for school.

hunbun8

You stated that one year cost approximately 1/4 of your families annual income and with saving and good investments your family could afford to send you. Today families don’t save and consider the sacrifice of 25% as too great to consider. As an aid administrator I see hundreds of families with comfortable incomes (middle and upper-middle class) who have saved nothing and are surprised by the costs and the lack of aid for their income level. Just this past week, I had a family who had been making in the upper $300k for years and whose primary breadwinner lost their job. They had no college savings at all and an upside-down mortgage, this family, now living one one salary of less than $100k, will now financial aid. Granted their circumstances gave vastly changed, but they are taking they are taking away someone else’s chance at college due to their lack of planning. I wish I could say this was an exception, but it isn’t. Saving for college just isn’t a priority for most people.

jaysanderson

“More must be done, she said, to facilitate student borrowing, including income-contingent loan options that would protect at least some graduates from a portion of their expected debt.”

The public bears no increased responsibility to subsidize a student who wants to attend Vassar over their local college or university. Tax dollars collected from citizens who are struggling to make ends meet should go to the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Sending your child to an exclusive private college is an optional luxury.

I teach at a private liberal arts college and I believe in what we do, but the community colleges and public universities in our region are beginning to offer similar programs to ours, and at a fraction of the cost. My daughter (a H.S. senior) tells me that her friends are talking about how they might get a college degree without student loans, because they are afraid of the debt burden. That gives me hope for the next generation, but causes anxiety about who will be willing to pay the 43k/year to attend my institution. I strongly suspect that I will be working at a state institution before my career ends, and be darn grateful for the opportunity.

cbres

W’s observations are well taken. My only disagreement is the degree to which migration into publics is taking place. Frankly, publics should be eating the lunch of privates. The reason they are not is the lack of public support for ‘public’ higher education. The high cost of public tuition, a direct result of diminished public support, means that, if you are middle class and you get some $ from a private, you’re coming pretty close to the cost of the public. Why not attend the private, then, if that is what you’d really like to do?

I attended the conference described in this article, and one thing that struck me (and not in a good way) was the observation that students perhaps should take on more debt for their educations. That makes me afraid, very afraid….

https://www.unibulmerchantservices.com/ Merchant Account

CFPB’s tool for estimating and comparing tuition costs is very helpful, but when I did a cost comparison for three schools, it became immediately clear that far more important is being able to get some kind of a financial aid. So in my comparison, the sticker price for MIT ($55,270) was much higher than the one for the average four-year private non-profit university ($42,224). However, when you subtracted the average grants and scholarships, the average private school overtook MIT by a wide margin ($26,694 vs. $18,644).

ahmetts

This is a tool that is very interesting and could be
helpful for most prospective students. I actually tried using it and I am going
to pass it on to other individuals at my institution to look at. I agree with
11891224, that you must make sure that you go beyond the first page and fill
out the borrowing amounts. Another issue is if a first gen student receives
this information they will still need explanation. It will be interesting to
see other comments and hear others opinions.

anand shing

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