• Tuesday, May 29, 2012

Previous

Next

Kaplan Higher Education Will Lay Off 770 People

December 7, 2010, 10:18 pm

Faced with slowing enrollments at its colleges and at Kaplan University, Kaplan Inc. announced on Tuesday that it was eliminating about 770 jobs, or about 5 percent of the work force in its Kaplan Higher Education division. Kaplan, part of the Washington Post Company, did not say where the cuts were being made but in a brief news release, an executive said personnel needs were changing because ”we have made a strategic decision to become more selective in the students we enroll, focusing on students who are most likely to thrive in a rigorous academic environment and meet their financial obligations.” Last week the Apollo Group announced it was laying off about 700 people, most of whom worked in admissions for its University of Phoenix.

This entry was posted in Uncategorized. Bookmark the permalink.

  • Print
  • Comment (37)

37 Responses to Kaplan Higher Education Will Lay Off 770 People

willynilly - December 8, 2010 at 10:14 am

As I have written several times previously, the Kaplan gig is up, for good. Run for cover, protect yourself, and for heaven’s sake, if you own stock in this loser, sell it today.

softshellcrab - December 8, 2010 at 10:57 am

I hope that all the for-profits are on the run. All these things are is diploma mills, take-the-taxpayers’-money mills. They are all about getting and keeping the tuition dollars (usually government financed with MY money) and not failing anybody so as to keep the tuition dollars flowing.

For profit schools are fake schools.

cwinton - December 8, 2010 at 11:38 am

Well, the for-profits had a good run, with their well-orchestrated campaigns for papering over the shoddy practices characterizing both their recruiting tactics and the “education” being delivered. They have provided a particularly nice means for a chosen few to rake in the big bucks, never mind the bait and switch basis characterizing so many of them. I doubt for-profit education will go quietly, and they have proven quite able to persuade malleable politicians (by doling out money) to defend their interests, but at least for now the stench has become so overpowering that even the most venal are beginning to look at them askance.

physicsprof - December 8, 2010 at 11:39 am

The same can be said about many state schools that offer degrees in “art history”, “communications”, “dance” and many other fake degrees.

11241998 - December 8, 2010 at 1:00 pm

I would be the first to admit that there are serious problems with many for-profit schools. However, to lump them all together and call them “fake schools’ illustrates only the writer’s own ignorance. There are some (many?) good programs within some of those colleges that genuinley serve the students they enroll with rigor!), allowing them to achieve things that would not have been available to them without the opportunity provided by the for-profit school. Many students choose the for-profits over public schools for legitimate reasons.

sqrtnegone - December 8, 2010 at 1:33 pm

As a physics professor myself I wish to distance myself from the comments of ‘physicsprof’. To claim that degrees in such fields should be characterized as fake is indeed sad. It demonstrates a very narrow view of the world, at best.

physicsprof - December 8, 2010 at 1:44 pm

Indeed, “a very broad view of the world” often includes moral relativism, but sadly omits intellectual honesty.

doctorthomas - December 8, 2010 at 2:03 pm

I have worked in the for-profit and non-profit environments.

In the for-profits for which I worked the students, BY FAR, learned more than the state run and non-profit schools. You might think this is an aberration, but, from my experience it certainly is not.
The national accreditation by ACICS for those for-profits was much more rigorous than HLC. The lessons were comprehensive, the classes met longer, and the teachers were supervised.
For example, in a 12-week class (lecture based) students earned 4 s.h (or 6 q.h.) credits over a 72-hour course. That’s 18 hours per credit as opposed to 13-16 hours per credit in the standard semester hour state-run schools. If you added a one-hour lab, contact time went up to 90 hours per quarter. Attendance taking was required each day, counseling your low-performing students was required, immutable office hours were required, quarterly evaluations of your teaching were required, both professional and faculty development was required… The only thing lacking was a publishing requirement, but then there were no course deferments or grad TAs to teach classes for us. Try some of these mandates in a state school with tenured faculty.

The environment in the two schools I’ve been in was much more dynamic and not subject to the lethargy we find in some of our state faculty. I won’t list the names of the schools because I don’t want to seem like I’m a shill or advertising for them — they can recruit on their own. I would highly encourage those who speak without experience to conduct research by teaching at some of those “fake” schools. Let us know how that goes.

moongate - December 8, 2010 at 2:40 pm

Dr. Thomas posts: “I would highly encourage those who speak without experience to conduct research by teaching at some of those ‘fake’ schools.”

Like Dr. Thomas, I too have worked for both profit and non-profit schools, and while I do not know where Dr. Thomas taught, I am highly dubious, both of the poster and the poster’s claims.

My proprietary school experience was an absolute fiasco for all the typically cited reasons, not the least of which was the drubbing the actual education took to meet the bottom line. Yes we took attendance every day, but it was entirely a facade–as long as the students were paying, they were passing. No library. No faculty development (“faculty meetings” were entirely devoted to numbers of enrollment). And, worst of all, few to no advanced degrees and often little to no teaching experience. I suspect our good Dr. Thomas works for Kaplan or one of the the other 4-profits, and I am sorry, Dr. Thomas, but it was a “fake” school.

Worse still, my current position includes helping university staff members with their “doctoral” dissertations (a Kaplan “doctoral candidate” included)…I will leave the readers to fill in the quality issues involved…

doctorthomas - December 8, 2010 at 4:01 pm

No Moongate,
I do not, nor never have worked for Kaplan, and the disparaging comments about Kaplan may be entirely correct.

My point was that those who paint with a broad brush demonstrate intellectual laziness….in the PC world it is called “stereotyping” or “profiling”.

johnandrews - December 8, 2010 at 4:28 pm

I have the privilege of representing Ben Wilcox and Carlos Diaz as whistleblowers against Kaplan University for violations of the False Claims Act.
I admire them both for having the courage to come forward. and expose the fraudulent acts. They will earn a reward for coming forward assuming they win the case, but that was not their original motivation for exposing the fraud.
I have to admit that I have been absolutely shocked at what I found out about Kaplan.
I personally believe these types of schools should be called predatory for-profit proprietary education corporations.
I hear the heartache from the former recruiters who could no longer stomach what they they were required to do.
I receive e-mails from instructors and/or professors who are so relieved that they no longer have to inflate grades.
I receive the phone calls and e-mails from the former students who indicate they were preyed upon.
I hear the tears when they find out that their credits are nontransferable. They are stuck with a large student loan which is not dischargeable in bankruptcy.

We must stop this $28 billion a year ripoff of the federal government, taxpayers such as you and me, and the students.
You can help by exposing fraud .
John W. Andrews ESQ
jwa@andrewslawgroup.com
813 8771867

cwinton - December 8, 2010 at 7:49 pm

Since the doctorthomas thinks so highly of ACICS accreditation, I might note that ACICS has accredited Everest University, a for profit which along with Kaplan is under investigation by the Florida Attorney General for misrepresentation. Despite his protestations to the contrary, he sounds like one of those posters who seek to paper over the flagrant abuse of the student loan program that keeps so many of these shysters operational.

moongate - December 8, 2010 at 8:01 pm

Actually, Dr. Thomas, I did not work for Kaplan. And, intellectual laziness or not, I am painting proprietary education with a broad stroke.

The very nature of education (that teachers be able to hold students to certain standards and be able to conduct research with academic freedom) is contradictory to the nature of a business venture which must respond to customers and the bottom line.

I might suggest that your efforts to defend for-profit education will not be terribly convincing here, nor should they be.

doctorthomas - December 9, 2010 at 12:02 am

Moongate, at least you are honest with yourself. Your argument, though, is not very honest — or perhaps simply misinformed. State schools worry about retention just as any other school. But, don’t take my word for it, ask the Registrar in any state school.

cwinton, I see you attempted to do research .. bravo!
Here’s a link for you:
http://www.chea.org/search/actionInst.asp?CheaID=907

I went state by state until I found the first state with an Everest campus. Arizona was first and they’re accredited by HLC.
Do you see that it depends which campus of Everest you attend?
Since this one is accredited by HLC, the same agency that accredits Arizona State University, I guess that by some transmutable rule of logic, ASU is a terrible school because it shares its accreditation with Everest University.

Other Everests, in other states, have ACICS and ACCSC as their accrediting bodies. I stopped going down the list when I hit Florida — the state in your post. If they are under investigation for misrepresentation of credit transferability, they may be guilty in Florida, but not in Arizona.

Do you teach at a state-run university? If so, I am concerned for students who might be instructed on incomplete research techniques. Some researchers only do enough research to defend their own point, but not enough to find the entire body of facts.

I must happily assume, based on your arguments, that you are not in higher ed (in any capacity).

I look forward to hearing from you again.

cindynicole - December 9, 2010 at 2:45 am

The post is very informative. It is a pleasure reading it. I have also bookmarked you for checking out new posts.

http://www.parislimousineorlando.com/

orlando limo

lindalll - December 9, 2010 at 12:34 pm

mmm

lindalll - December 9, 2010 at 1:25 pm

I think people who equate all for profit universities as diploma mills are guilty of excess generalizing and lazy thinking. Many public and private universities have faculty and staff entrenched in the security of their jobs who just go through the motions of doing their jobs. The completion rates at community colleges are dismally low. The colleges and universities with the highest completion rates are those schools where where admission is competitive and the bulk of the student population are traditional students. These students do not make up the bulk of students attending the for profit schools.

I have experience working with both profits and non profits and I think the current situation we are in is due to the fact that public and traditional private schools due a very poor job of servicing the non traditional student who requires flexibility that the for profits offer. I think the for profits grew very quickly because they filled a huge need.

They grew without oversight. They grew without anyone trying to sort out the very fundamental conflict of interest inherent in the idea of a non profit university held by a publicly traded university. They grew without any agreement regarding best practices among these universities.

I work for one of them who thankfully has been out of the spotlight but there is a LOT of pressure to enroll and the school is basically an open enrollment school. The people I speak to and do enroll are people who want to continue their education or begin their education but for whom traditional options are not possible. They are single mothers, people who work third shift, people who travel, people in the military. They are also people who have tried the community college route and have scheduling issues, can’t get into required classes because they are filled, don’t feel comfortable sitting in classes with people half their ages, etc. etc. The community college which should be the greatest educational bargain around does not do that great a job in serving non traditional students.

Manufacturing and trade jobs have been disappearing and people need an education; however, it is amazing how many applications I read from people who spell “college” “coledge”. High schools graduate many people who do not have the skills they need for college. I read a lot of commentary about instructors at for profits being pressured to give passing grades and I know it happens; however, what I see more often than not at the school where I work are students flunking out. They flunk out because they don’t have the skills necessary to pass classes as they become progessively more difficult. They flunk out because they don’t read the rules and regulations of the university (which are posted in many places and reiterated constantly) about deadlines, contacting instructors when they can’t finish an assignment on time, and because as adults they still have not overcome the issues that made them poor students or poor candidates for college education when they were 18.

There are of course many students who thrive at the for profit universities and get a good education. These are usually the students who always had the skills for college but “life got in the way” or they were “late bloomers”. There is a niche among students who positively thrive at the profits but there are a lot of students who either don’t belong in college or need a year or two of remedial work.

Take for example, someone typical of the person I talk to and do not enroll. The person is 30 something, unemployed or underemployed, who has had years of experience working in an industry that was slammed by the recession. The person has little or no college background and never liked school in the first place but knows he or she has to have retraining and usually has no idea what he or she wants to do. I can call this person months later and that person will be in the same place but even poorer and more desperate. What do we have to offer this person in terms of retraining, remedial education, vocational counseling? Does anyone think the overburdened unemployment offices and community colleges do a good job?

doctorthomas - December 9, 2010 at 1:47 pm

I have seen similar students, linda. In my first for-profit college we enforced a dress code, attendance (if out two days in a row the faculty called; five days and you were withdrawn), and academic probation standards.

Many of our kids were from the “wrong side of the tracks”, slightly older than traditional students (some much older), but finally realized that what they had been doing wasn’t working.

After we expelled the first few for behavioral issues, the rest knew we were serious about their success and they thanked us for putting out the self-absorbed few who thought the school would give them a degree just for attending.
My Dean of Education taught me a valuable phrase when a failing student would say, “You can’t throw me out, I’m paying for this education!”; the response he used was “No, you’re paying for an OPPORTUNITY to get an education, and your throwing that away by your actions.” I’ve used that same phrase with traditional non-profit students who think they are entitled to dictate school policy.
Our graduation rate in our two-year program was higher than all ten local community colleges. Our Bachelors graduates had more seat time than any traditional college in the city.

Your first paragraph is spot on.

moongate - December 9, 2010 at 2:37 pm

So where do you teach Dr. Thomas? Perhaps your institution breaks the norm and should be congratulated–but it is pretty easy to come here and make the sorts of claims that you do without the burden of evidence (you might just as easily be a Kaplan attorney or PR writer for all we know). You could clear this up by posting the name of the for-profit which does such an excellent job.

And, for whatever it is worth, the retention game may erode the quality of the non-profit sector as well, no argument there…

lindalll - December 9, 2010 at 3:19 pm

I did a bad job of proofing my earlier comment. Besides writing “due” instead of “do”, I garbled a paragraph which I think is very important.

What I was trying to get across in my earlier post was that for profits grew very fast and nobody has yet come to terms with the conflict of interest inherent in a university being owned by a publicly traded university. Quarterly reports inevitably affect policy so there should be some built in firewalls that currently even the regional accrediting bodies do not provide in their oversight.

doctorthomas - December 9, 2010 at 5:01 pm

Sure Moongate, I’ll tell you my first for-profit and we can go from there. Please reciprocate by listing your first higher ed teaching position.

The very first location I taught was one of the Remington Colleges. At the time there were 17 campuses around the country. Many of the administrators came from ITT Tech to start this school.
All of the requirements I listed earlier applied to Remington. We taught with tough love for students who might never have had a guiding hand in their life. When I arrived, the Associates program was in place and Bachelor classes were just beginning to form. Because we used BBAY funding, large stipends were not allowed, which means larger loans were not needed.

We integrated theory with hands-on application (one of the foundational theories of successful andragogy), and grew the campus. We required our Career Services to place 85% of our graduates in their career field within 90 days. How many state schools do the same?

If you Google “Remington”, you’ll find good and bad reviews from former students. As in all parts of Life, those who tried, succeeded; those who didn’t, blogged. It’s a lot like “Rate My Professor”. Even the highest rated professors have a few students who intensely dislike them.

Regarding accreditation, I became a West Coast SME for my field on behalf of ACICS. I traveled to western states and inspected other campuses of other schools. ACICS standards when compared to HLC are much more exact. In many areas HLC tends to allow colleges to set their own benchmarks and then checks to ensure they are following your own goals. ACICS has more defined goals. Unlike the 18-year faculty above, when I traveled to other colleges, I enforced those standards strictly. It also helped me to bring back beanchmarks on how to improve our campus.

At Remington we told students up front that credits from nationally accredited schools may not transfer to regionally accredited schools. However, I actually met with local colleges to outline our curriculum and to show how our students were actually receiving more content than students in a 3 s.h. course.
Several colleges and universities (of the 42 local campuses) with open minds accepted our students and credits. Those who clung to the territorial pissing of regional accreditation would require our students to pay them more money to take the same courses over again. Courses my best students could have taught.
That is the real maltreatment of students as defended by Senator Harkin.

My current univeristy has already been invited to testify before the Senate. We outlined how our retention rates are higher and our loan defaults are the same or lower than the state universities. We also demonstrated how the cost of our education is lower than the state schools when you consider the amount of tax subsidies per student we pay in taxation for one state college student.

You seem to have ingrained in your mind that all for-profits are the same. Is that really the way you intended to represent your thoughts?

reclusf - December 9, 2010 at 6:04 pm

Lindall, I challenge you to think a little harder. You called out “lazy” thinkers before. Tag, you’re it.

The “Admissions Advisor”:

It begins in Kool Aid Club training, when questions about stigma and accreditation are dodged. They’d prefer you didn’t think too much on the sales floor, either; there’s virtually no discussion or training on program content or quality. Your job is simple: sell the American dream that higher ed equals car, house, stability, etc. There’s a quota each day, and sales managers roam the aisles of our cube heaven. Cube Heaven comes complete with for profit vending machines that distribute smaller portions of Doritos and candy for about $.20 more than machines everywhere else. What will they think of next?
You’re taught and encouraged to temper (and avoid in the initial interview) any “process” based questions…the realities of debt, how financial aid works, the work required, etc. You’re regularly and strongly encouraged to enroll same day, and management makes it clear that doing so helps to avoid losing students to other universities. They’ll fluff that with a seemingly bullet proof rationale that students have been putting this off forever, or are frightened, and that they need your help. Never mind that 95% of prospective students we’ve targeted are in poor financial situations, or the fact that they’re jobless, with the rent due, and in emotional, irrational states. Omit, enhance, and manipulate. You’re helping, so do whatever it takes. Get the enrollment. Toss a homeless person a smallpox infected blanket instead. At least they can declare bankruptcy after going to the ER. Yeah, they weren’t looking for THIS change in their lives: Not only will they be saddled with debt they can’t shake even in bankruptcy, but they’ll also have spent their Financial Aid card, effectively disqualifying themselves from school aid in the future.
Back to the sales floor and earning your check. It’s time to start “overcoming objections.” This is what you’ll spend the majority of job doing – convincing students that their intuition about a quick fix is wrong, that they can make the time for it, use a library computer if they don’t have one…they NEED this. Omit, enhance, and manipulate…guilt if you must!The single biggest “objection” you’ll be encouraged (for unspoken threat of termination) to overcome is the application fee. Sure, it’s not much, but the majority of students don’t have it, choosing rather to spend it on food, or avoiding cell phone service interruption, drugs, or getting it waived to enroll in a university that will charge them thousands more. It’s now your job to call them every day to help them “overcome this challenge.” Can they ask the church? Parents? Find some bottles and cans to recycle? The reality is that while a few of them are late bloomers and/or working professionals that bring the necessary experience and education to succeed. The the vast majority are low SES, or flat broke, with little education experience, poor skills, and even poorer consumer awareness. They all have only one thing in common: a social security number! A number that grants access to Federal Aid that you’re now going to help a corporation plunder. Legally.
At the beginning, you’re told you’re going to help “untraditional” students: students that are getting to college late or disheveled; they may have had children, or found good jobs out of high school, or went to prison. Duh, untraditional students typically don’t have great academic skills, and learn worst when content is presented only verbally/linguistically (reading/writing). Our students are provided supplementary videos, etc., but they’re assessed by “projects” which are essentially short term papers that they research in the library, and by contributing to discussion board topics. Reading. And writing. How does setting up a student to fail help her/him/it?

Someone end this.

reclusf - December 9, 2010 at 6:05 pm

The Admissions Advisor:
It begins in Kool Aid Club training, when questions about stigma and accreditation are dodged. They’d prefer you didn’t think too much on the sales floor, either; there’s virtually no discussion or training on program content or quality. Your job is simple: sell the American dream that higher ed equals car, house, stability, etc. There’s a quota each day, and sales managers roam the aisles of our cube heaven. Cube Heaven comes complete with for profit vending machines that distribute smaller portions of Doritos and candy for about $.20 more than machines everywhere else. What will they think of next?

You’re taught and encouraged to temper (and avoid in the initial interview) any “process” based questions…the realities of debt, how financial aid works, the work required, etc. You’re regularly and strongly encouraged to enroll same day, and management makes it clear that doing so helps to avoid losing students to other universities. They’ll fluff that with a seemingly bullet proof rationale that students have been putting this off forever, or are frightened, and that they need your help. Never mind that 95% of prospective students we’ve targeted are in poor financial situations, or the fact that they’re jobless, with the rent due, and in emotional, irrational states. Omit, enhance, and manipulate. You’re helping, so do whatever it takes. Get the enrollment. Toss a homeless person a smallpox infected blanket instead. At least they can declare bankruptcy after going to the ER. Yeah, they weren’t looking for THIS change in their lives: Not only will they be saddled with debt they can’t shake even in bankruptcy, but they’ll also have spent their Financial Aid card, effectively disqualifying themselves from school aid in the future.

Back to the sales floor and earning your check. It’s time to start “overcoming objections.” This is what you’ll spend the majority of job doing – convincing students that their intuition about a quick fix is wrong, that they can make the time for it, use a library computer if they don’t have one…they NEED this. Omit, enhance, and manipulate…guilt if you must!The single biggest “objection” you’ll be encouraged (for unspoken threat of termination) to overcome is the application fee. Sure, it’s not much, but the majority of students don’t have it, choosing rather to spend it on food, or avoiding cell phone service interruption, drugs, or getting it waived to enroll in a university that will charge them thousands more. It’s now your job to call them every day to help them “overcome this challenge.” Can they ask the church? Parents? Find some bottles and cans to recycle? The reality is that while a few of them are late bloomers and/or working professionals that bring the necessary experience and education to succeed. The the vast majority are low SES, or flat broke, with little education experience, poor skills, and even poorer consumer awareness. They all have only one thing in common: a social security number! A number that grants access to Federal Aid that you’re now going to help a corporation plunder. Legally.

At the beginning, you’re told you’re going to help “untraditional” students: students that are getting to college late or disheveled; they may have had children, or found good jobs out of high school, or went to prison. Duh, untraditional students typically don’t have great academic skills, and learn worst when content is presented only verbally/linguistically (reading/writing). Our students are provided supplementary videos, etc., but they’re assessed by “projects” which are essentially short term papers that they research in the library, and by contributing to discussion board topics. Reading. And writing. How does setting up a student to fail help her/him/it?

Someone end this.

doctorthomas - December 9, 2010 at 7:10 pm

Poor, poor reclusf, (and I’m not being facetious),

If I had worked where you worked, I would feel the same way about that work environment. But, the question really is, why would you want to work in a place like that? Wouldn’t the cognitive dissonance cause you to prefer flipping burgers over this?

None of us will defend someone who acts like this and none are trying. What several of are saying is, the broad brush is the lazy man’s tool.
I hope you’ve found a better place to be.

reclusf - December 9, 2010 at 7:44 pm

doctorthomas,

You’re kind, and yes, i’m working my way out of here. I can’t believe i was foolish enough to think it would be any different. I’ll be axed soon enough for not enrolling students, though that will not be the reason given, I can guarantee it. Honestly, i enroll very, very few students, and that’s how I live with myself. I recently enrolled a student because he’s traveling extensively, needed online classes, and brought real experience to his education. I’m not claiming all for profit education is bad. Admissions “recruiting”, is evil, though.

Don’t get me started about traditional state schools. In my experience, it’s a who’s on first scenario at all turns. It’s difficult to navigate, fees and tuition are mysterious, and it’s difficult to find real help or guidance.

I believe there ARE some great programs; for profit, online, and otherwise. I’ve been regularly impressed with what Drexel is doing, even if it’s expensive.

I just think, after this experience, that for profit “advising” should be highly regulated, and that online and/or accellerated for and non-profit programs should be reserved for those that can effectively demonstrate the ability to succeed and show real promise for paying it off. This is not news though; it’s inexcusable that DOE has let this happen. How are we going to forclose on or repossess a college education when the FA bubble pops?

fruupp - December 9, 2010 at 9:22 pm

physicsprof wrote: “The same can be said about many state schools that offer degrees in “art history”, “communications”, “dance” and many other fake degrees.”

Wow, evidently one can receive a science degree from a box of Cracker Jack! Who knew? Or perhaps the good…ahem…”Professor” is a gradjit of a for-profit chop shop. Same difference.

moongate - December 9, 2010 at 11:14 pm

Yes, you are correct, Dr. Thomas.

There are a lot–I mean, A LOT–of complaints about Remington online. And these are exactly the kinds of complaints usually leveled at proprietary institutions: rip-offs, hard sales tactics, promises too-good-to-be-true, expensive, poor instruction.

Actually, my for-profit experience was at an institution much like yours–multi-state regional but not one of the giant profit systems. And my for-profit experience included just such unbelievably rosy numbers as you cite above (a 85% job placement w/in 90 days), just the kind of claim that has gotten the for-profit sector in trouble. Interestingly, many of the online student complaints about Remington have to do with the inability to find employment despite recruiter promises and steep tuition. I could not find anything that would verify what you’ve claimed above–at least not online–while the anecdotal evidence online, while certainly not complete or scientific, would suggest that Remington is pretty much exactly what a skeptic might expect.

The most damning thing, in my estimation, is the complete lack of faculty profiles–who teaches at Remington?

Then there is this from the Huffington Post:

“ABC has once again caught for-profit colleges engaging in bad behaviors.

“This time, the offenses involve bad advice and hyperbolizations.
After a Remington College professor was surprised to find two convicted felons on his class roster, ABC sent an undercover producer posing as a convicted felon to meet with a Remington recruiter. When the producer told the recruiter of his felony conviction, the recruiter assured him they would work with him and that he could find work in law enforcement or corrections. But according to the Texas Department of Public Safety, those convicted of felonies are barred from working in those areas.”

Is this fair to post? Maybe, maybe not. But it would seem to suggest just exactly the problem of educating for money.

reclusf - December 10, 2010 at 12:33 am

Honestly, that’s not the worst part. You’re talking about schools that are criminally out of compliance. That’s an easy fix. Plant people. Shop advisors and videotape them. Makes laws. Done.

The problem is that people that should be in school often can’t find a reasonable avenue in public institutions. They turn to blood thirsty capitalist schools for a lack of options.

To qualify bloodthirsty: How many advisors do you think are needed to advise and enroll ethically the students that truly benefit from for profit online schools? The fact that kaplan and phoenix are laying off hundreds to “become more selective” should tell you something. They’ve been targeting low income people that don’t know better; people of color that don’t have English skills necessary to learn in a almost purely verbal-linguistic environment; and capitalizing on CSI for years now. Years. And good luck proving any of that.

It didn’t always used to be this way, but if you’re not doing general education, or can’t see a logical trail to career in a program (contacting faculty is the best way to get assurance), you shouldn’t go anywhere near college right now. It’s dangerously predatory.

reclusf - December 10, 2010 at 12:35 am

i really should proofread these things.

lezahgg - December 10, 2010 at 11:07 am

To reclusf–I understand your comments on how advisors are trained at these schools and I know it to be true. I do not, however, understand your attack on my thought processes. As Dr. Thomas so aptly stated, “What several of are saying is, the broad brush is the lazy man’s tool.”

There are many people who benefit from getting an on line education at a for profit university. The problem is that there are too many who are enrolled who do not because they cannot. That is why these schools need to shrink and change their admissions tactics.

doctorthomas - December 10, 2010 at 7:15 pm

moongate,

I hate to say I told you so.
The motivated gripers will always complain but NEVER outline their culpability in the situation. Having dealt with those types of students — many of whom also attend junior colleges — I can recite by rote the many excuses and recriminations about how their failure was not really THEIR fault. No, it was the school, or the textbook wasn’t clear enough, or the teacher wouldn’t let them turn in their work three weeks late. But the many who were successful ADULT learners are better educated in the field than their commuity college counterparts.

re: Enrolling felons in CJ — I found the exact same SINGULAR instance of Larry Stewart discovering felons in his class. And so, you fire the recruiters. Problem solved and message sent.
Find me 30 instances and we’ll compare those to the thousands of students in the CJ program at Remington for statistical significance. Really? Do we base arguments on one instance?

What you also ignore is that the local community colleges are enrolling felons into Crim Justice or Admin of Justice or Justice Studies as well.
If you have a felony, it is highly unlikely (particularly in today’s economy) that you will ever be a sworn officer, but a felony does not disqualify you from working in other functions in law enforcement, depending on your jurisdiction. New Orleans is infamous for hiring felons as SWORN OFFICERS in the 1970′s and 1980′s.

However, the broader picture is that community colleges and state schools can and do enroll the same way, but don’t even ATTEMPT to place students or to measure their lack of post graduation success.

You stated you worked at a for-profit (while neglecting to name it), that also had career placement, while hinting that they didn’t meet their obligations. Do we consider ourselves leaders? Do we work to correct it or do we wash our hands and walk away? I don’t need a state regulation to tell me how to do the right thing?

moongate - December 11, 2010 at 1:57 am

You did tell me so, Dr. Thomas. And it is so. In spades.

And, of course, it must be all these lazy, resentful students seeking revenge on the net–but Remington had only one minor incident of an overly ambitious recruiter, right?

Uh huh…

There are a number of kinds of intellectual laziness, Dr. Thomas, and simply adopting the high pious tone of the wrongly accused in an attempt to contradict readily available evidence is one of them. And it does not make you any more believable.

Nope, you’re a guy or girl who may soon be out of a job and you are doing your best to save the ship. And it will probably not do you much good. Best dust off that doctorate (assuming you have one) and start washing your hands before a little state regulation sinks the whole dang Titanic.

Good luck to you, my friend, I suspect you’ll need it.

taford02 - December 11, 2010 at 10:20 pm

UOP grossed over 4 billion dollars last year. In this economy and with the circumstances that many find themselves in, grant money (and loan money, where possible) is being used to support households. This is one reason why students do not graduate–many of them never intended to. Second, the open enrollment allows acceptance of students who do not have the skills to be in college in the first place. Again, another factor in the low percentage of graduates. Finally, the entire curriculum for UOP is available online for a nominal fee on multiple sites. Most of the students who enroll know this. The school is aware of this –yet will not spend the money to re-do the curriculum. Many students sadly enroll thinking that they can cheat their way to a degree. Few accomplish this–but some do. I have no sympathy for the “for-profits”. If they survive, they survive. If they don’t–I could care less. In the case of UOP one of the VPs made over 18 million dollars –while they pay their facilitators pennies and the work is unbelievable (i.e., there is a lot of work).

lindalll - December 12, 2010 at 9:29 am

taford02–good point about the loan money and grant money used for other purposes than going to school…as far as cheating goes, some for profits have software that can detect plaigarized papers. It’s quite possible and even probable that some people have found a way to get around this…

mycantarella - December 15, 2011 at 10:31 am

In the spirit of full disclosure I am a Bryn Mawr graduate. However, my view is not a reflection of that other than the reality that for me my education in an all female institution has been very much empowering and has shaped my life in many ways. Many years ago when working on my doctorate I did some work on women as entrepreneurs and found that in general (and I too have experienced my share of exceptions) women are the kinds of leaders who care. A report today http://www.news.com.au/business/female-bosses-ditch-the-harshness-and-embrace-a-caring-workplace/story-e6frfm1i-1226223480446 confirms this to some degree. It has been observed that firms with more women on the board do better and survived the financial crisis better. There is more evidence than can be cited here. It stands to reason to me that more women in global leadership is an important and necessary goal. I applaud Jane for her leadership in this effort.
Marcia Y. Cantarella, PhD (Bryn Mawr BA ’68) Author, I CAN Finish College: The Overcome Any Obstacle and Get Your Degree Guide

studenthealth - December 15, 2011 at 9:25 pm

Anassa kata kalo kale ia ia ia nike.  Bryn Mawr!  Bryn Mawr!  Bryn Mawr!  President McAuliffe and women making a caring difference in the world. (forgive the fractured Greek)  Margaret Ross MD (Link) BA 1970  Director, Behavioral Medicine, Boston University Student Health Services

huldah - January 3, 2012 at 1:36 pm

Since 1996, SPHere – Sustainable Peace Here (spherecommunity.org) has been empowering Nepalese women through literacy, women’s groups and micro-enterprise. Tharu women, the indigenous tribals of Nepal’s Terai, were illiterate in 1996; they did not have access to money or economic choice. Today, women in Bachhauli VDC have started their own bank (Pancha Tara) and are providing loans to village men. SPHere’s grassroots women’s empowerment program has been very successful. While many such projects fail, I have developed very clear guidelines for success during my 15 years working in Nepal. Huldah Warren