The Colorado Community College System has repealed a policy banning concealed weapons from its 13 campuses, the Associated Press reports. The move comes a week after the Colorado State University System dropped plans to prohibit concealed firearms, in response to a state appellate court ruling last month that reinstated a lawsuit challenging the University of Colorado’s concealed-weapons ban.
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17 Responses to Colorado Community Colleges Repeal Policy Prohibiting Concealed Weapons
dmccornac - May 13, 2010 at 4:07 pm
What a sick society we live in.
11272784 - May 13, 2010 at 5:44 pm
It’s not sick, but it’s easy to visualize its hazards. All we can do is see how it plays out.
dmccornac - May 13, 2010 at 8:53 pm
A shot in the dark I guess
dvlubitz - May 14, 2010 at 1:52 am
We have a dilemma here: if students cannot put two coherent sentences together, can they put two bullets one after anothger into a legitimate, genuinely assaulting “target” (read “person”) without hitting the lamp post AND an innocent classmate or professor simultaneously? You know, even plastic bags can be deadly in inept hands. Therefore, how about having a “classroom marshall” instead – a guy who knows what the operational end of a pistol is, and how to make sure it is aimed at what it might need to be aimed at? Just like aboard an airplane, you know… With the academy going to dogs rapidly anyway, we may as well accept that ignominy as part of our daily lives, and get on with the latter pretending nothing special has ever happened anyway.
douva - May 14, 2010 at 2:31 am
Why should the state of Colorado allow trained, licensed, carefully screened adults (age 21 and above) to carry concealed handguns in most other unsecured locations (locations without metal detectors) but not on college campuses?Why should a 23-year-old student be allowed the means to defend himself when studying late at a public library but not when studying late at the campus library? Why should a faculty member be allowed the means to defend herself when walking to her car after an early-morningn workout at a local health club but not when walking to her car after an early-morning workout at the campus fitness center? Why should someone be allowed the means to defend himself or herself at a movie theater on Saturday and in a church on Sunday but not on a college campus on Monday?
douva - May 14, 2010 at 2:36 am
Licensed concealed carry hasn’t proved to be a problem at Colorado movie theaters, shopping malls, grocery stores, office buildings, restaurants, banks, churches, etc., so why should we assume it will be a problem at Colorado community colleges?It hasn’t been a problem at Colorado State University or any other U.S. college that allows licensed concealed carry on campus. Since the fall semester of 2006, Utah state law has allowed licensed individuals to carry concealed handguns on the campuses of Utah’s nine degree-offering public colleges (20 campuses) and one public technical college (10 campuses). Concealed carry has been allowed on the two campuses of Colorado State University (Fort Collins, CO, and Pubelo, CO) since 2003 and at Blue Ridge Community College (Weyers Cave, VA) since 1995. After allowing concealed carry on campus for a combined total of 124 semesters, an average of over five years per school, none of these twelve schools has seen a single resulting incident of gun violence (including threats and suicides), a single gun accident, or a single gun theft.
douva - May 14, 2010 at 2:43 am
States that keep statistics on crimes committed by concealed handgun license holders (i.e., Texas, Florida, Michigan) invariably find that licensees are significantly less likely than non-license holders to commit violent crimes. In Texas, for example, the rate of concealed carry is about 1.6% (as of December 31, 2009). Approximately one Texan out of every 62 is licensed to carry a concealed handgun. Yet, based on 2002-2006 statistics, Texas concealed handgun license holders are five and a half times less likely than members of Texas’s general population to commit manslaughter and four times less likely to commit murder. Despite Texas’s high rate of concealed cary, a person in Texas is more than 20 times as likely to be struck by lightning as to be murdered or negligently killed by a concealed handgun license holder. (Texas Department of Public Safety, five-year average of statistics on criminal convictions of CHL holders, 2002-2006; U.S. Census Bureau, yearly estimates of Texas population, 2002-2006; U.S. National Weather Service, “Medical Aspects of Lightning,” Dr. Marry Ann Cooper)
douva - May 14, 2010 at 2:46 am
Unless college officials choose to ensure that campus “gun free” zones are gun free in more than name only–by taking steps (i.e., metal detectors) to disarm not only the law-abiding citizens who choose to follow the rules but also the dangerous criminals who choose to ignore the rules–there is no legitimate, fact-based reason to prohibit concealed carry on campus. If there is no credible evidence that licensed concealed carry makes students and faculty less safe, and if colleges can’t ensure that licensees are not placed at greater risk by being disarmed, why should state-funded colleges be allowed to refuse to honor state-issued concealed handgun licenses?State laws and school policies that prohibit concealed carry on campus serve no purpose but to place law-abiding license holders at the mercy of any criminal willing to disregard state law and school policy. If you’d like to view the facts, statistics, and arguments supporting “campus carry,” visit CampusCarry.com.
11272784 - May 14, 2010 at 10:49 am
It’s true that this has not been a problem in the past, so there’s no reason it will become a problem in the future.But in our society, all it takes is one incident to change state laws.
ddonner641 - May 14, 2010 at 4:55 pm
Thank you, douva, for introducing some facts and reason into the discussion of a topic that generates an incredible amount of irrational emotionalism, particularly from the members of a community that is purportedly dedicated to rational analysis.
rick1952 - May 14, 2010 at 7:50 pm
ddonner641 – douva may have introduced facts that support an argument that persons with concealed carry permits on college campuses have not committed crimes, but he does not present a salient facts that challenges the call for permitting concealed or open carry permits on campus.All crime statistics kept by law enforcement show college campuses are safer than communities at large, and the overwhelming majority of these campuses do not permit students, faculty or staff (other than sworn security officers) to have firearms on campus. Firearms violence is rare on campuses despite the tragedies at VA Tech and Northern Illinois U.These facts suggest that the fear of criminal harm is greatly exaggerated by those promoting concealed as well as open carry permits for guns on campus. I think you are correct regarding the need for facts and reason in discussion of this issue. We need some rational analysis of the level of danger that exists on a college campus. I am not aware of criminal report data that demonstrate that the level of danger on college campuses justifies calls to permit concealed or open carry firearms on campus. If such data exists, please advise.
douva - May 15, 2010 at 5:40 am
Though statistically safer than the surrounding communities at large, college campuses play host to every type of violent crime found in the rest of society, from murder to assault to rape. The statistics suggest that allowing concealed carry on campus won’t hurt and might, in certain circumstances, help; therefore, there is no legitimate reason not to allow it. A free society does not deny the people a right* unless there is empirical evidence that granting that right will do more harm than good. Put another way, a free society places the burden of proof on those seeking the denial of a right, not those seeking the granting of a right. It’s not enough to argue that concealed carry isn’t needed on college campuses; you must show that concealed carry is or would be detrimental to college campuses. Though some may claim that banning licensed concealed carry makes colleges safer, that assertion is not supported by the evidence (as demonstrated in my previous posts). To assume a cause and effect relationship between the unenforceable gun control regulations on college campuses and the relative safety of college campuses constitutes an astoundingly naive leap in logic. A similar disparity can be found between the relatively low crime rates in affluent neighborhoods and the higher crime rates in the cities in which those neighborhoods exist. After all, what are college campuses but, essentially, affluent neighborhoods?If you really want to explore this issue in depth, I suggest you start at CampusCarry.com.*http://www.campuscarry.com/home/what-is-a-right/
rick1952 - May 15, 2010 at 3:49 pm
douva – I looked at the campuscarry website and found an impressive array of information all arguing in favor of concealed carry on campuses. The most balanced and interesting item was Mr. Allen Brady’s essay examining the issue vis-a-vis Colorado State University. While his essay suggests he favors concealed carry based on the evidence available, he is clear in stating towards the end of his essay that the evidence is complicated and inconclusive as far as making a broad statement about the safety (and advisability) of allowing concealed carry on college campuses. That said, I did not find any data that support the idea that guns are needed on campuses because of crime – there is no data that shows that the rate of violent crime on college campuses is increasing nor that the rate of crime on college campuses is disproportionate to the population. So, I do not see compelling evidence that there is a need for increasing the number of armed persons, especially those who are not well-trained professional law enforcement personnel. I am not trying to “prove a negative” as you suggest above, I am trying to understand why more guns on campus are needed. Fear of potential crimes that are statistically less likely to happen on campuses seems to me to be a poor basis on which to stake a claim regarding a right to concealed carry.When all is said and done, I believe we are going to have to “agree to disagree” about which data are meaningful in determining whether concealed carry makes sense and is needed on college campuses.
douva - May 15, 2010 at 4:48 pm
Rick1952, you’re correct that you didn’t find any data on CampusCarry.com supporting the idea that guns are needed on campus because of crime. You also didn’t find the argument that guns are needed on campus because of crime. I made it pretty clear in my previous post that I don’t believe it’s necessary to prove that “campus carry” is necessary. That’s not the crux of this issue, and opponents of campus carry only attempt to make it the crux of this issue because it’s the closest thing they have to a leg to stand on.If you look at “shall-issue”* concealed handgun licensing laws in this country, you’ll find that those laws have widely replaced “may-issue”** licensing laws because the general consensus is that men and women should not be required to show a specific need in ordere to be allowed the means to defend themselves. Suggesting that campus carry should be prohibited unless supporters can show a clear need contradicts the intent of shall-issue licensing laws. Restrictions on carrying on college campuses might have made sense when shall-issue licensing was relatively new and unproven, but that is no longer the case. Over the years, as it’s become clear that licensed concealed carry does not make the places it’s allowed less safe, states have repealed laws against carrying concealed handguns in other locations, such as churches, hospitals, restaurants, etc. And time after time, we’ve seen that allowing concealed carry in those locations does not cause problems.Twelve U.S. colleges now offer a very clear picture of concealed carry’s impact on a college environment. And that picture shows that concealed carry has NO impact on a college environment. That being the case, all available evidence supports the notion that prohibiting licensed concealed carry on college campuses is antithetical to both the intent of shall-issue licensing laws and the nature of a free society.A free society does not ban something simply because some segment of the population doesn’t like it or because those who want it can’t prove they need it. A free society only bans something when empirical evidence shows that the impact of allowing it is worse than the impact of prohibiting it. Not only is there no EMPIRICAL evidence that the impact of allowing campus carry is worse than the impact of prohibiting it; there is no evidence AT ALL to support that notion.As I said before, why should someone be allowed the means to defend himself or herself at a movie theater on Saturday and in a church on Sunday but not on a college campus on Monday? To the best of my knowledge, neither movie theaters nor churches have high rates of violent crime. So what? We don’t only wear our seatbelts when we know we’re going to be driving in heavy traffic. If a person wants the means to defend himself or herself at a movie theater or a church or a college campus, why should that right be denied?*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shall-issue#Shall-Issue**http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_issue#Mayy-Issue
kymac - May 18, 2010 at 10:05 am
The concern is not so much an issue of defense. There are a number of ways to defend yourself without using a handgun, so don’t imply that deny someone a handgun is denying them a right to defend themselves.What we are more likely to see in college classrooms is an increase in tension, as opposed to a movie theater or a church. I’ve had students threaten my life if I did not allow give them the grades they wanted. Two years ago a student did bring a gun to class, showed it to classmates and told them that after break the professor was going down for the lousy grades she was giving out. Luckily one of those students was able to slip out and get the campus securityIt is a real threat and those of you who say there’s absolutely nothing wrong with bringing guns to campus are living in la-la land, or must want everyone to own a gun.Equating it to a plastic bag is even more idiotic. You could kill an instructor (or fellow student) from the back of the room in seconds with a few quick shots – and no, you do not need to know how to string sentences together to shoot a gun, they work through completely different brain processes – but if you want to kill someone with a plastic bag it will take longer, you must be in closer proximity, and it will be easier to intervene. It is probably why we haven’t had many issues of mass school plastic baggings.
terrypruettsaid - May 18, 2010 at 12:14 pm
All I have to say as a teacher is if society is worried about grade inflation, knowing that my students are all packing will definitely make me think twice about whether or not to give a bad grade. And bad grade is relative. Right now I have a student arguing with me about her A-. I’m glad she doesn’t have a gun.
douva - May 18, 2010 at 5:33 pm
So, Kymac, the fact that a student brought a gun onto your “gun free” campus is evidence that we need to maintain “gun free” campus policies? Suppose that, instead of showing the gun to someone else, the student had simply started shooting? How long would it have taken security to reach your room? Most handguns are capable of firing about one shot per second.As for other means of self-defense, how much martial arts training and pepper spray does it take to stop a bullet? Does your campus even allow pepper spray? Many don’t.It seems to me that you and Terrypruettsaid should be more concerned about the students who, like the student in your example, might bring a gun to class illegally than about the trained, licensed, carefully screened adults (age 21 and above) who want to carry guns to class legally.According to all available evidence, allowing licensed concealed carry on campus hasn’t created tension, impeded the learning process, or led to any shootings over grades (or anything else) at the 33 college campuses I previously mentioned. Why do you think the result would be any different on your campus?This has nothing to do with wanting everyone to have a gun–you can support reasonable restrictions on gun ownership and possession (i.e., age restrictions to purchase a gun, training and licensing restrictions to carry a gun, prohibitions against gun ownership by felons, etc.) and still support legal, licensed concealed carry on college campuses. I’ve presented a mountain of evidence showing that allowing licensed concealed carry on college campuses doesn’t cause problems, but you refuse to look beyond the cloud of emotion surrounding this issue. If you honestly think that prohibiting licensed concealed carry on your campus is going to prevent a disgruntled student from shooting up a classroom, you’re the one living in “la-la land.”