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Faculty Oversight of Sports Falls Short, Survey Finds

August 31, 2011, 7:01 pm

The faculty’s role is often limited in sussing out major violations in big-time athletic departments, but new research suggests that many professors in leadership roles aren’t using some obvious tools to help protect the academic integrity of programs.

According to a national survey conducted by the Coalition on Intercollegiate Athletics and researchers at Penn State University, only a minority of faculty governance bodies on campuses with elite sports programs have direct oversight of athlete admissions, scholarships, and advising. And few faculty governance leaders look at the majors and courses that athletes take.

The survey also found many athletic academic-services units to be independent from the rest of campus. More than 40 percent of such units at the surveyed Football Bowl Subdivision programs do not report directly to broader academic advising departments.

Those patterns worry John S. Nichols, the coalition’s co-chair and one of the Penn State researchers. “To the extent that data on initial eligibility, special admits, scholarship termination, scholarship runoffs–problems that are academic in nature–are being done without oversight of the faculty, these festering problems are only going to get worse,” he said in an interview.

The coalition, an alliance of university faculty senates, plans to push for stricter admissions standards for athletes–an area that college presidents appear poised to tackle as well. “If you raise [Academic Progress Rates] without getting better students, there’s an increasing temptation to cut corners, which can lead to academic misconduct,” Mr. Nichols said.

The research, co-authored by Thomas F. (“T.C.”) Corrigan, appears in the current issue of the Journal of Intercollegiate Sport, along with detailed case studies of six universities’ efforts to integrate athletics and academics.

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  • peggy875

    Harkin is on a “witch hunt” as we all know. If you want to take a true look, then look at all of higher education – public, private, for-profit, non-profit. I would hardly consider Harkin’s website as a reliable source – it is very slanted. I have worked in both the for-profit and public sector. Believe me, the public sector needs a long hard look as well.

  • drj50

    There are many well-documented problems with for-profit institutions of higher education — as well as (different problems) with private and public non-profit institutions. But “Next: anecdotes about administrators and then about students.”? Good data, not anecdotes, lead to good policy.

  • 11274135

    It’s interesting how defenders of the malfeasance of some in the for profit sector prpose as their defense that the “non-profits do it too.” And that makes it right?

    Tell you what. Let’s imagine the world without Pell grants. How many for profits would disappear?

  • stevesarakuhn

    Thank you, Mr. Jenkins, for your clear argument for tenure in community colleges.  As one of two community college professors who were banished to a very small, remote site because we insisted on faculty control over curriculum (in our case, it was a private sector company who was invited in and was using materials and methods that were at best, unproven, and at worst, proven to be bad), I can attest to the importance of tenure.  I know that we would have been fired  if we had not had this protection.  As it was, we were mistreated for a couple of years until our lawsuit was settled, and then we were returned to the main campus with some additional benefits.  In my experience, faculty members at community colleges tend to be passive about speaking out under the best of circumstances, though they will state quite cogent arguments and possible solutions to each other privately about problems facing the institution.  Even with the collective voice of a Faculty Senate (my colleague and I were secretary and president of the Senate the year immediately prior to our punishment), faculty members rarely speak out, and, if they do, it is anonymously.  Without tenure and its protections, the community college can become a fiefdom of the president.

  • wilkenslibrary

    I was disappointed that Rob Jenkins did not cite the AAUP’s position on granting tenure to contingent faculty in this article, so I am pleased that drassessment brought up the need for job security among the 75% of community college faculty who are not tenured or, currently, tenurable.  Our position is, as our Mexican colleagues put it, much more precarious even than that of full-timers.  Since our students’ learning conditions depend on the working conditions of their teachers, we must insure that those working conditions are excellent.  Contingent faculty need a pathway to full-time employment and a system that guarantees them the right to speak out on all college-related issues.

    Betsy Smith/Adjunct Professor of ESL/Cape Cod Community College

  • robjenkins

    Honestly, Betsy, I had thought of adjuncts and their plight as a separate issue; but from what you and drassessment have said, I see that it’s not as separate as I thought. A case of unconscious parochialism on my part, no doubt. Mea culpa. Thanks to you both, though, for addressing the issue more eloquently than I could.

    Rob

  • wilkenslibrary

    Dear Rob,

    It’s a separate but closely related issue.  Or maybe intertwined is a better description.  Thank you for being open to considering it as such.  The AAUP has come out for tenure for contingent faculty, and I’m hopeful that before I’m ready to retire, we’ll see the Vancouver model in effect on many, if not all, of our campuses since it will benefit not only part-timers, but also full-timers, and, most of all, students.

    In solidarity,
    Betsy 

  • polisciguy

    I teach politics part-time and my students cannot pin down my personal beliefs because I really do argue as many sides of an issue as I can. When I eventually achieve F/T status at a community college, tenure will be vital to the way I do my job. In addition to having collective control regarding issues such as curriculum delivery methods, I all too often have to present ideas that are controversial to some or even a majority of people in order that I fairly represent the broad spectrum of opinions in the public arena. If that freedom is sacrificed because I feel the need to bow at the altar of playing it safe, then I have done a disservice to my students and my discipline.

  • nampman

    Amen!

  • neudy

     
    I certainly see your side, and those who left comments concerning the matter as well.  Yet, your argument is so one sided and skewed. I know you have good reason to be one-sided in your argument, but you’ll never accomplish your goal by failing to ignore the opposing side’s concerns for granting tenure to begin with.   

    Tenure, in its current form, is something all professors relish.   But why? So you can tell administration to shove it whenever you like, with the argument of academic freedom as the shield? Or, by refusing to do things you don’t like nor care to do when asked, because you can use tenure as a sword?  Do you advance the same “free speech” opportunity you relish to your students by using anonymous grading? Probably not, and I’m sure they too would love to oppose your views from time-to-time but feel as if they can’t without receiving a bad grade.  

    You are asking administration to grant tenure to a collective group on a large scale basis; thus, redistributing power to those who, afterwards, will have the least amount of risk to oversee.  It’s the administration’s butt that is at risk no matter how much power they have.  They report to the board, and they are responsible for meeting the overall needs of the institution. If they do not have the ability to accomplish that mission because of such restrictive items like tenure, then they will fail and be terminated.  Thus, their long term future could become tarnished and they could be forced to uproot their family to wherever they can find gainful employment. 
      
    Do you see where this story is going?  Administration shares the same fear you have but with a different group in mind. Thus, if you want to receive something as great as tenure, then bring something to the table to give in return.  Just showing up and teaching is not enough to warrant tenure. You have to help quell any such fear administration has, or you need to redefine the term tenure to meet both party’s needs.  Otherwise, the only thing that will happen is – you’ll continue writing articles that advocate tenure for everyone, but never receive it. 

    Best of luck in your quest.

  • drassessment

    Isn’t it amazing what fear can do?

    BTW, I have never allowed a student’s position either in agreement with my viewpoint or in opposition to it affect that’s student’s grade. I have played the “devil’s advocate” to prevent groupthink too many times to allow myself to penalize a student for disagreeing with me.

  • softshellcrab

    I don’t see the fear point.   I see so much abuse of tenure at my school, that I have come (as a fully tenured faculty member) to disagree with it, or ask what modified approach can protect faculty from being let go for controversial ideas, such as conservative right-wing ones like mine, but allow them to be let go for being lazy.  I can’t tell you how lazy and good-for-nothing half of the tenured faculty in my department are.   Heck, I wish they had the gumption to express some controversial thought I disagreed with, it would show they had some life in them.  I would respect them more.  We have a bunch of highly paid tenured faculty working 10-15 hours a week, and not working at all over most of the Summer or over a one-month Christmas break.   The tenure thing is so abused.  And why protect faculty in a way that no other workers are protected?  I am just turned off by the whole thing and the ridiculous abuse I see.

  • Prof_truthteller

    Here is the link to Rob’s article that he cites below; http://chronicle.com/article/Tenurethe-Two-Year/44474/ took me awhile to find it so I offer it here for everybody.

    neudy, thanks for clarifying your main point for me. However, even if we replace “administrators” with “legislators” as the body capable of implementing the change we are discussing- removal of tenure from CC faculty- I am not sure that your suggestion would help, and here’s why.

    The legislators who are seeking to remove tenure from community college faculty are for the most part Republicans and conservatives. I personally do not think that their reasons are based on any fears. In fact, it’s not clear to me WHAT their reasons are- however, if you look at the overall scope of the Republican party’s actions, one unifying trend that seems quite clear is how those actions serve to undercut traditional Democratic and liberal power bases and funding. Organized labor is clearly one of their targets. Academe is another. Removing tenure kills both birds with one stone.

    The CCs are an easy target and starting point, partly because of the apathy of CC faculty towards tenure that Rob describes, but I have no doubt the campaign against tenure will spread to four year and doctoral institutions.

    Unfortunately, in our public arena of political discourse, my fear is that we have moved far beyond any hope for an “amicable solution to meeting both party’s needs” mostly due to the ideological intransigence of the right and far right, and this issue is just one small piece of that hugely threatening national problem.

  • barbarashell

    I don’t buy the assertion that we are holding on to old models of leadership. Institutions generally go to great lengths to ensure that the playing field is level so that the candidates can be judged fairly.  The person described as #3 should have acquiesced to the procedures set forth by the committee. Candidates can show their leadership qualities within a Q&A session and without causing turmoil by changing arrangement of the room.  I’m also wondering – would the reaction to #3 be any different if she were a he?

  • jbarman

    I’m not sure that it was candidate #3′s leadership abilities that were being questioned.

    How many of us have been to conferences where we were asked to gather in small groups to discuss this or that issue, then select someone to report the group’s findings at the end of ten minutes? It usually feels childish, and my initial reaction to the individuals who plan these routines is that they did not have the creativity or energy to provide real information or value.

  • bcbailey64

    Hmm…personally, I’d be looking to hire the person courageous enough to try something different. In today’s era of rapid change, I wouldn’t want to be hiring somebody who promises to satisfy the status quo. I would be looking to hire someone who can adapt to and manage large-scale change. Another article in the Chronicle is food for thought…http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/technology-as-a-harvesting-method/29006

  • 5768

    I certainly hope we are holding on to “old mental models of leadership” rather than throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Give me tried and tested virtues and ideals backed up with action any day. If that isn’t leadership model enough, nothing else is. That said, what is being described in this article has little if anything to do with evidence of leadership or lack thereof. A difference in style alone does not a leadership model constitute. From the responses of the author and campus which focus on style at the expense of substance, we should question how they could possibly be in any position to know whether leadership was present or absent in any given candidate.

  • academicentrepreneur

    Candidate No. 3′s behavior–especially asking 50 people to move their chairs into a circle–clearly demonstrated a tone-deafness to her audience’s needs and expectations. As such, it probably was an accurate reflection of her leadership style and skills, or lack thereof. 

  • singfasola

    Several surveys and studies have demonstrated that women model and exercise leadership in ways quite different from men. Perhaps, following two male candidates, Candidate #3 felt that she needed to demonstrate the leadership style that would differentiate her further from the competition. She could have been less abrupt in her approach by asking the Search Committee in advance to set up the room to her preference.  She must have felt that “talking” her leadership style would be less effective than modelling it. 

    However, a “disruptive” approach is often just that, and her lack of success probably stems from her inability to read her audience.  That lack of insight, or perhaps the inability to pull the disruption off, would lead to interview failure, regardless of the candidate’s gender.

  • http://twitter.com/marydixson Mary Dixson

    It’s hard to separate the gender question from leadership style given that you have two males and a female in the example, but I would argue that this has less to do with leadership and more to do with simple manners. I personally defer to old fashioned rules about being a respectful guest.  Making forceful requests about how you should be introduced (unless they have your name just flat-out wrong) and how your hosts should be seated and interact with each other is simply bad manners, regardless of leadership style. It’s like being invited to a dinner party, rearranging the table placecards, and then after being served the main course, tasting it, and saying loudly to the hostess, “it will be just fine if I put a lot of salt on it.”

  • goodeyes

    This woman also could have come across as a control-freak.  The “consensus” was not to move the chairs but she was not able to understand or grasp this norm.  If she had asked first in an open way before requesting the chairs be moved, then the request would have come  across as more like consensus building.   Be wary of leaders too that give such long answers that most or no questions can be asked.  This is also a sign of a very controlling person.  

  • vitupera

    What Does a Leader Look Like? “Look” might be a greater consideration than many of us allow.

    At my institution a candidate for Chair of the largest department in the college preferred to stand at the chalkboard and diagram his management ethos. It was a compelling demonstration. Perhaps the committee felt they were being lectured and assumed him to be a top-down edict maker instead of a “consensus builder”. Despite his being included in the department’s major foundation textbook, his experience in a similar capacity at two institutions more successful than ours, his substantial connections in the field, and his stellar reviews from faculty, students, and staff who attended the open presentations he gave, the committee chose one of the far  inferior candidates. Two years later that candidate had been removed from the position. The man at the chalkboard, however, is now the Dean of a nationally known school in a highly regarded research university.

    Members of that search committee would become indignant were they ever accused of improper bias but the difference between the lost opportunity and the other three candidates brought to campus was obvious. He was Black and the other candidates were White. To an all-White search committee could his “Look” have influenced their decision without them realizing it? Did he not look like their boss? It was a turning point for the department that had a great deal of momentum and needed the right leader to take it to the next level. Since then it has floundered with its failed search, interim Chairs, and disregard by the Dean. Other, smaller departments have flourished while ours has faded.

    Could something as retrograde as a candidate’s appearance have so altered the fate of once mighty department? It certainly looks like it.

  • coco_rico

    If the candidate were applying for a job as a professor, her decision to rearrange the chairs would have been bold and probably appropriate. Personally, however, I want deans and chairs and provosts, etc., to take charge and give us direction. If your leaders are making up the rules as they go along, very bad things can happen. Candidate 3 would be good as a team-teacher or maybe to operate a tutoring program on campus, but not to make executive decisions.

    Regarding gender, I must say I have 25 years in the working world, of which 13 years have been spent in higher education–and I can’t say women manage that much differently from men. I work with two female deans at my university: One works by consensus and always sees every issue as a case of compromise. The other is a “bulldog,” often criticized by people for being crude and insensitive. I love the bulldog lady.

    I also work with the grants office a lot, which has mostly female grants officers. One is very sweet and gentle. Another one I nicknamed “Thunderbolt” because she has the thunderbolt stare that stops people dead in their tracks. I like working with Thunderbolt.

    In my own department, I have found that female colleagues tend not to be very nurturing but they stand up for me when a clear ethical stake is on the table. I respect them immensely, to the last one. I haven’t had a single female colleague at this university who gossips or backstabs or does any of the stereotypical “girl” things.

    My straight male colleagues present quite a different range, however. Four of them were very nurturing when I came back from active duty and struggled with post-deployment mental-health issues. They were kind and patient, willing to listen to me break down and even cry in front of them. Even though I am bisexual, I think they connected with me because I am married and a dad and served my country, so they could relate to the typical male stress of my experience.

    Other straight men have been horrendous at places where I have worked, acting like little b*tches and going behind my back, forwarding emails and creating public pressure to force me out of this job or get me blocked on that grant. 

    And then there are lesbians. I always, always, always get along with lesbians with one or two exceptions. They’re the most awesome people to have as colleagues or supervisors.

    So I can’t really generalize about male/female leadership styles at all. Times have changed and I think those characterizations are passé. Candidate 3 in the scenario above is not indicative of the way “girls” or women lead things, from what I have seen. She is simply not the right person for an executive job. Maybe she could teach research classes at the library or do group therapy.

  • nacrandell

    Cadidate #3 actions suggest she is forcing the issue and making people uncomforable which will not build consensus.  She is not acting like a “girl”, just a stereotypical business school/six sigma graduate – all buzz words and no leadership abilities.

  • richardtaborgreene

    On the one hand:

    1) people might have gotten bored sitting so a bit of movement might refresh
    2) touchy feeling facilitators are among the most demanding dictators in life–throw her in the trash
    3) asking 50 people to change ANYTHING is a good beginning—garlands around her neck
    4) apparently brain contents were irrelevant—shoot all 50 faculty
    5) why not chairs that roll?—-shoot the facilities people
    6) hand out sheet with what leaders look like and give each candidate 5 minutes to strut and fret
    7) March–real leaders take credit for luck and avoid credit for bad luck—check her ability to do that
    8) Have a man and her run races, lift weights, spit, and make vulgar jokes—then choose the best
    9) have her and a man fight using neutral tools—racoons, espressos, 
    10) give em both a stack of abstracts in their field and challenge them to stay awake for 5+ minutes.

    On the other hand:

    Whomever you hire will have zero money the next 20 years—so it hardly matters, hire anyone. 
    if you are in great warm city with great coffees and conversations and lots of high tech firms near the ocean and are paying 300K or more a year—hire me. 

    GREAT LEADERS, truth be told, do not LOOK like ANYTHING—
    they can be very very unimpressive people–their RESULTS look impressive, not them—
    research shows interviews are the LEAST RELIABLE hiring criterion—people who are fascinated with winning interviews are stupid (candidates and deciders both).

    More seriously–since LOTS of research finds executives have NO MEASURABLE EFFECTS except in crisis situations where confounding factors abound, hire someone it is entertaining to watch the ups and downs of—someone who enjoys the flows of life instead of taking it out on the poor staff, organization, students, faculty, or other stakeholders. People who treat the interview as a joke can turn out to be pretty accurate and good readers of faculty. ooooo that was subtle…..

  • lindarabbit

    I have no doubt that SOME people are holding on to old models of leadership.  Hiring decisions, (like other decisions that humans make – according to a vast research literature in the disciplines of psychology and economics for example - are a function of ‘gut’ (read: emotions that are operating at an unconscious level).  The unconscious archetype of a “warrior” or “god” could have been operating in the decision making of the search committee in the article.   Perhaps, however, a more prosaic explanation is in order for the behavior of that committee: organizational fit.  Without followers, there is NO LEADERSHIP.   Perhaps this group of faculty members would not be able to follow a leader who broke basic, normative interview rules!  In their collective ‘gut,’ Candidate No. 3 scared them away.

  • weberatou

    The observation fails to take note of the fact that, in addition to the third candidate proceeding in an unusual manner, she was the only female.  Is it possible that the “acting like a girl” comment tells us more than was intended?

  • 5768

    Imaginary, symbolic, real. Three registers upon which we operate but the imaginary of the ‘look’ seduces us best.

  • betbezej

    “acting like a girl” ?!?  sounds like those critics opinions should have been discounted for acting like sexist individuals…

  • betbezej

    “acting like a girl” ?!?  sounds like those critics opinions should have been discounted for acting like sexist individuals…

  • http://twitter.com/identifytalent Janet Korpi

    As a leader it’s important that you engage your audience and while Candidate No. 3 did it overtly, I’m left wondering if the other candidates did it as well, perhaps with humor? It seems like the article is trying to portray a difference between male and female leadership.  Our experience, excellent leaders come in all shapes and sizes…and they always engage the group.

  • dlsgphd

    True leadership is not about the position we hold, but the influence we wield.  When selecting for leadership position, we must consistently look at the influence the candidate imparts to us in the short time that they are with us. The method that a candidate uses to present is far less important than the leadership influence they exude.   We must always ask ourselves, is this a person that I want to follow?  If not, move on to the next candidate. 

  • raza_khan

    I have a fundamental issue with the title of the article -  “What does a Leader Look Like?”

    I am rather concerned with What does a Leader Act Like and How the Leader Gets the Job Done?

    To me, it is not about gender issue – it is simply about getting the job done without losing respect of the colleagues / employees and on the same hand be professional in the conduct.

    Of course,  people have different views on how a prospective leader should / needs to act… but I rather am more interested in the answer “Why Should We Hire You?”  and “Tell Us Few Things That would be a Disadvantage to This Position”.

    Heck,  I ask the same questions in my students’ mock interviews!!!!!!

    Finally, for those of you who are stuck,  get over the gender issue…. Hopefully, the upcoming Generation Y does not care if their leader is a male or a female.

    Raza
    ______________________
    Raza Khan, Ph.D.
    Dr.Raza.Khan@gmail.com

  • msghighered

    That is just plain stupid. Know your audience! And lastly, people work very hard for a phd and she may have offended others in the audience that had one which I am sure was most of them!

  • rheinland

    That may very well be the case. Conversely though the female professional is often criticized as being too “business like” or demonstrating “corporate mentaility” if she is too assertive (speaking from personal experience). 

  • valentino

    Looks can be deceptive; whereas actions, or lack thereof, are more telling about true leadership and persons in leadership positions.

  • 12080243

    I’m shocked, shocked at the outrageous findings of this study!

    Sorry, I couldn’t help myself.

    And will faculty participation improve the current endemic corruption in college athletics?

    As one of our many deans at the College of Business was fond of saying (and we discovered that it applied to him, too), What makes you think they won’t be captured, too? (He was an economist.)

    See, “A General Theory to Test Social Reality,” “Is Accreditation A Reliable Authority On Academic Quality?” and “University and AACSB Diversity (diversity of ideas, academic freedom, etc)” free online at the Social Science Research Network. See, http://ssrn.com/author=397169

    Chauncey M. DePree, Jr., DBA, (BA in Philosophy and a doctorate in business administration which includes a minor in Ethics and Logic–the details are a plea to my liberal arts colleagues to forgive me for by business degree. Professor, School of Accountancy, College of Business, University of Southern Mississippi, m.depree@usm.edu.

  • davi2665

    Athletics are totally dominated by the coaches and athletic directors, the president, and the alumni/donors who value sports above all else.  They would sacrifice virtually anything (including their integrity) to have a “winning” team, and usually act as if rules are there to be circumvented, not followed.  If a faculty member or academic individual has the audacity to suggest that something is not just wonderful, wonderful, wonderful, they will either be ground into the dirt, discredited and attacked, or perhaps even fired.  Even mild criticism of a tyranical coach is usually grounds for adverse actions against the person foolish enough to lodge the criticism.  And, of course, for some free tickets and a few other perks, the coach or athletic director can always find a few faculty members who will assign a “gentleman’s C” to anyone capable of signing their name to an examination booklet.  Good luck to the faculty senates and the coalition for even trying to raise the issue.

  • kymermosst

    Perhaps they should be more involved, but faculty members should NOT have direct oversight of these areas. Faculty members aren’t in charge of oversight of any other scholarships on campus, so why should they be charged with the administration of such a varied and unique system as athletic eligibility?

    Most schools at the level discussed are large enough that I’m sure they have their own crop of academic advisement staff, who may or may not be considered faculty. The advisers working with student-athletes should absolutely be well-versed in the requirements, and should be in regular contact with their students’ coaches. Ultimately, however, the onus should be placed on the coaches to ensure that their team members remain eligible.

    As Davi points out, it is rather common for professors to be a little more lenient and forgiving with student-athletes, perhaps not holding them to the same standards as other students. In that case, the faculty members should be ashamed at their lack of personal integrity, but should be scrutinized just as much for being lenient with any other student.

    Final thought: Many of the major, FBS schools that the study focused on are major research institutions. While certain faculty members may (for better or worse) want to have a say in these matters, many of these faculty spend more time in libraries, locations, and labs than in the classroom. Why would they take extra time to police an area of the school that already has a large staff which is tasked to do so?

  • bigjoe

    As long as the coaches are allowed to BULLY the faculty, it will continue.  Most ball players avoid my classes.  My former military training prevents the coaches from making physical threats, now.  I did have a football assistant attempt the physical bully tactics, one time.

  • Socratease2

    Excatly, the faculty on these boards have neither the time, expertise nor motivation to do that kind of support work on behalf of athletics. It is important there be transparency and that athletic departments regularly report to such units on issues pertaining to admissions, majors, student-athlete welfare, etc. But get serious, faculty are increasingly being marginalized from participation in any area of university “shared goverance,” athletics is not a beach they are going to die on.
     

  • Socratease2

    That is completely ridiculous, you are could not be more wrong and your assertions that coaches get faculty fired or that faculty face attacks by university administration if they don’t hand out easy grades to athletes is laughable. But, if you have any evidence to back up these assertions, definitely bring that forward.

  • Socratease2

    Really? Tell us more. A coach threatened you with physical violence but fortunately they now know that your military background prevents them from further physical assault. What about the the more effete faculty, have they been beaten senseless without consequence to the “bully” coaches. Where do you teach, “Lord of the Flies Academy”?  Are the comments in this section of the Chronicle supposed to be creative fiction or have a point connected to the real world?

  • Socratease2

    Oh, god, you again.

  • 12080243

    Here’s where we left off, Socratease2. Your last comment before you went “on vacation”:

    “Just like I thought, you have nothing to say (or in print) that directly addresses theissue of athletics within the university system. I don’t care what tangential ideasyou have that you think address the topic, let’s be clear, you don’t or you arebeing purposefully dense and obtuse for some reason. You could have sparedme the waste of time it was to converse with you. “Go back to what I put squarelyin front of you early on,” who are you, zen master Yoda? You are relentlesslyvague and disconnected, no wonder Mississippi ranks so low on nationalacademic rankings. You need to be considered in detail, by a team ofpsychiatrists. Good luck with your aimless research. I am going on vacation.”

    My response (so you can get caught up):

    “Well, I just had a wonderful dinner with friends. I had champaign, steak, and decadent chocolate cake. Wow! That was good. By the way, since you asked, I have a BA in philosophy from SUNY, and a doctorate in business and a minor in logic and ethic from UK. I’m from New York. Served as an infantry officer in the Marine Corps in the early 70′s and live in Mississippi because we make a lot of money there. Anyway, that out of the way, I’m rejuvenated and ready to try again. Okay, where were we? I’m ready to get to your education, again. I’m patient. Please describe in detail what you don’t understand. I’ve provided much detail. Pick any idea you find in the many I’ve provided that is troublesome to you, since you don’t want to provide any of your own ideas to discuss, and let’s try it again. Explain what you don’t understand. If you write it out in detail, we may make progress. Try again. I’m willing to.”

    Clearly, you were upset and still are. Try not being an anonymous bully. It doesn’t work with me.

  • Socratease2

    On page 9 of “A General Theory to Test Social Reality” you state,

    “Accountants are often criticized for the lack of relevance and effectiveness of
    their research. (See, e.g., Granof and Zeff.)” 

    I could not agree more with you.

    If you have anything to say about your research that applies DIRECTLY to the issue of college athletics please SPELL IT OUT. Do not simply refer me back to your articles. For example, you might discuss how your theory relates to the connection between campus administration and athletics administration. As far as I can tell your “theory” boils down to the assertion that people will say one thing but do another. Well, congrats, you are right. Ok, so what? You have identified a well understood principle of human nature and politics. Now tell us how it applies to corruption in athletics. Better yet do a case study on your own athletic department and publish the results.

  • 12080243

    Oh, god, you screwed up, again, Socratease2. You can’t make simple connections. Until you can make those simple connections, you won’t know what to do except whine about others who can and who are doing something about it. Are athletics controlled by university administrators? No, wait, that’s too complicated for you. To simplify the analysis for you assume that university athletics exist in a vacuum. Now, with that simplification, what are you doing to improve the human athletic condition on campuses. 

  • 12080243

    You’ve been exposed, Socratease2. You’re a stealth advocate for collegiate sports. Your job is to attack critics of college sports. Discredit them. That’s why you’re so vehement. That’s why you use the ad hominem so much. It suits your duties. Ridicule is your tool. You’re a stealth advocate for sports and don’t let any hint of criticism of college sports to go unchallenged. You’ve been caught, Socratease2!

  • 12080243

    You’ve been exposed, Socratease2. You’re a stealth advocate for collegiate sports. Your job is to attack critics of college sports. Discredit them. That’s why you’re so vehement. That’s why you use the ad hominem so much. It suits your duties. Ridicule is your tool. You’re a stealth advocate for sports and don’t let any hint of criticism of college sports to go unchallenged. You’ve been caught, Socratease2!

  • 12080243

    You’ve been exposed, Socratease2. You’re a stealth advocate for collegiate sports. Your job is to attack critics of college sports. Discredit them. That’s why you’re so vehement. That’s why you use the ad hominem so much. It suits your duties. Ridicule is your tool. You’re a stealth advocate for sports and don’t let any hint of criticism of college sports to go unchallenged. You’ve been caught, Socratease2!

  • 12080243

    You’ve been exposed, Socratease2. You’re a stealth advocate for collegiate sports. Your job is to attack critics of college sports. Discredit them. That’s why you’re so vehement. That’s why you use the ad hominem so much. It suits your duties. Ridicule is your tool. You’re a stealth advocate for sports and don’t let any hint of criticism of college sports to go unchallenged. You’ve been caught, Socratease2!

  • Socratease2

    Jeez, talk about personal attacks….I got the message the first time, didn’t need 3 copies of it. And no, I have said before I have plenty of criticisms of college athletics and higher education in general. My “job” as you put it is not to attack critics of college athletics, I welcome any rational, informed and fact-based discussion of how to improve the educational value of athletics. What I attack is lazy, uniformed opinions that get tossed around in these comment sections. I make it a point to keep my mouth shut about issues I know nothing about. You and others just can’t say athletics is “corrupt” from top to bottom and then offer no evidence or analysis. I have asked you to supply a coherent and researched analysis of the place of college athletics within the university system based on your theoretical interests and you just stall, stall stall. So what I am supposed to do??  I am asking for your argument, you are the one alleging “endemic corruption” across the board, not me. I do not think it is out of place to ask for your evidence supporting that. What am I doing to enhance the human athletic condition on campus? Well, I do walk a lot. As for the hypotheticals, it only makes sense to discuss them if they have a connection to reality, I don’t understand what it means for a human institution to exist inside a vacuum. It would certainly be bad for athletics due to the lack of available oxygen.

  • 12080243

    Nice try, stealth sports advocate. Of course, you want only “rational, informed, fact-based discussion”–as long as you define these ideas. Now, you try to sound reasonable to reestablish credibility, but soon you’ll be back to your ad hominem, ridiculing ways discrediting any criticism of college sports. You’ve been given rational, informed, fact-based research and you’ve simply said–without any evidence or proof–it’s not rational, fact-based and informed. Sorry, advancing knowledge doesn’t advance that way, dear sports advocate/cyber-bully. You’ve been exposed as a cyber-bully and stealth sports advocate.

  • CWsDad

    I’m not a “stealth advocate” for collegiate sports but I do think Socratease2 has a point.

    She, or he, asked you to make a direct connection between your research and the topic at hand. So far, it appears as if you’ve failed to do so.

    (And as an aside I find it funny that the handle is Socratease2.  It’s the 2 that gets me. Hard to believe that there’s another Socratease out there.)

  • 12080243

    Thanks, CWsDad. Let’s apply your and Sorcratease2′s criteria for knowledge. I’ve provided my studies in detail for you or anyone else to read and discuss. Now provide your bona fides. Prove you are not a stealth advocate for college sports. It’s easy and you know how to do it, so just do it. Who are you? Establish your credibility. Begin to give us confidence that you are not a stealth sports advocate. In other words, PROVE IT, just as you’re asking me and others to prove our knowledge.

  • Socratease2

    Cyber-bully and stealth sports advocate?? You forgot my main charm, my wining smile. I apologize to all who took the time to read  this ridiculous thread  of exchanges with 12080243, I had hoped there would be a point to all this but it is clearly pointless. Thank you CWsDad for understanding why I want to bang my head against the wall in an attempt to move this discussion into the realm of the factual. If anyone bothered to read the articles 12080243 keeps ranting on about and can actually decipher his “ideas” and explain how they have any direct connection to the issue of college athletics please let him know. I am sure he will be thrilled since he can’t seem to do it for himself. I will be amazed. Now, please excuse me, I need to go advocate for sports but still make sure no one is aware of my secret agenda. Once again, apologies to all and to number man, good night and best of luck.

  • bigjoe

    You have never been threatened?  Wow, you must live in an Ivory Tower.  I don’t know about the other faculty other than rumors.  When he grabbed my shirt, I grabbed his wrist ( a little harder than he expected).  I didn’t break any bones, but he knew that I could have done some serious damage.  Like most Bullies, he was through.  I have not heard anything else from him.  Since the incident happened in my office and neither of us wanted to get into trouble, it was never reported.  Around here, the ball teams usually get their way, unless they have a couple of bad seasons. 

  • Socratease2

    Well, bigjoe, I guess it is good you are big and tough then. If you are telling us that a football coach actually assaulted you, then I want to believe you are not fabricating such a story. Sounds incredible to me but I guess stranger things have happened. And if that did happen, why would you ever want to protect him and not get him into trouble? Seem to me your motivation as a faculty memeber would be to expose such an outrageous act loudly and immediately. And no I don’t live in an ivory tower but I have never been threatened within a university by a fellow staff member. I hope not many people have had that experience on campus.

  • 12080243

    I thought you would refuse to begin, just begin to establish your credibility. I did. In good faith I offer my research. I open myself and my research to anyone’s review. You wouldn’t. Your namesake, dear Socrates–ease2, had a set. Where are yours? Have a bit of courage? Just a little? We’re not asking much. As a matter of fact, I offered that you inform me in private who you are, remember? I have many faculty friends who remain anonymous, and I respect that and them. I fully understand why. If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I won my freedom to speak and do research that I choose to do. And that I would never violate a confidence. You know my name, as does everyone who reads comments on CHE. You can easily google me, too. Now, you fail again. You are a fraud and I believer anyone who has followed your comments, you, yourself, prove you are a stealth advocate for college sports and use ad hominem and ridicule as tools to abuse others. I have more if you’d like to hear it. And if you live close to me–you know where I live, I continue to offer friendship over a cup of coffee. We all make mistakes.

  • Socratease2

    Enough already, you are open about who you are and that’s great (I guess). You did offer your articles for review and that is awesome too. I gave you my honest feedback about the argument, methodology and conclusions and their lack of direct connection to the evaluation of college athletics. Neither one of us has any publications that address the topic, I have a lot of information and will likely publish an article or two eventually but nothing available at the moment. I am certainly not a fraud and would be happy to have a reasonable debate if you were a reasonable person. I have tried to engage you in debate but you keep responding with these vague unsettling statements.

    Ok, one last time, take a deep breath and read my statement: I believe that college athletics is a flawed system but still has educational and personal development benefits for students on the whole and reforming rather abolishing athletics makes more sense than indicting the whole enterprise.

    Now don’t let me down here. I will make this easy for you, just complete this sentence:

    “Socratease2 acknowledges there are issues with the preservation of amateurism in college sports but believes that athletics still provides a positive, growth experience for many student-athletes, however I believe…………………………….My views are based on……………….”

    And do not refer back to your writings!!!!  If you can complete this task, well, I will be surprised, but hopefully you will produce a coherent thought. But if you don’t want to that’s fine, just don’t reply otherwise.

     

  • 12080243

    Let’s make sure my note doesn’t gel lost in the comments, Socratease2 (for those of you just joining the discussion, please read the comments, below, if you’re interested): 

     I thought you, Socratease2, would refuse to begin, just begin to establish your credibility. I did. In good faith I offer my research. I open myself and my research to anyone’s review. You wouldn’t. Your namesake, dear Socrates–ease2, had a set. Where are yours? Have a bit of courage? Just a little? We’re not asking much. As a matter of fact, I offered that you inform me in private who you are, remember? I have many faculty friends who remain anonymous, and I respect that and them. I fully understand why. If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I won my freedom to speak and do research that I choose to do. And that I would never violate a confidence. You know my name, as does everyone who reads comments on CHE. You can easily google me, too. Now, you fail again. You are a fraud and I believer anyone who has followed your comments, you, yourself, prove you are a stealth advocate for college sports and use ad hominem and ridicule as tools to abuse others. I have more if you’d like to hear it. And if you live close to me–you know where I live, I continue to offer friendship over a cup of coffee. We all make mistakes.:

  • 12080243

    I thought you would refuse to begin, just begin to establish your credibility. I did. In good faith I offer my research. I open myself and my research to anyone’s review. You wouldn’t. Your namesake, dear Socrates–ease2, had a set. Where are yours? Have a bit of courage? Just a little? We’re not asking much. As a matter of fact, I offered that you inform me in private who you are, remember? I have many faculty friends who remain anonymous, and I respect that and them. I fully understand why. If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I won my freedom to speak and do research that I choose to do. And that I would never violate a confidence. You know my name, as does everyone who reads comments on CHE. You can easily google me, too. Now, you fail again. You are a fraud and I believer anyone who has followed your comments, you, yourself, prove you are a stealth advocate for college sports and use ad hominem and ridicule as tools to abuse others. I have more if you’d like to hear it. And if you live close to me–you know where I live, I continue to offer friendship over a cup of coffee. We all make mistakes.

  • Socratease2

    Don’t inflict this nonsense conversation on others. My advice is to all is ignore this thread.

  • 12080243

    You’re ashamed, Socratease2. Most frauds are, too, when they get caught:
    I thought you would refuse to begin, just begin to establish your credibility. I did. In good faith I offer my research. I open myself and my research to anyone’s review. You wouldn’t. Your namesake, dear Socrates–ease2, had a set. Where are yours? Have a bit of courage? Just a little? We’re not asking much. As a matter of fact, I offered that you inform me in private who you are, remember? I have many faculty friends who remain anonymous, and I respect that and them. I fully understand why. If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I won my freedom to speak and do research that I choose to do. And that I would never violate a confidence. You know my name, as does everyone who reads comments on CHE. You can easily google me, too. Now, you fail again. You are a fraud and I believer anyone who has followed your comments, you, yourself, prove you are a stealth advocate for college sports and use ad hominem and ridicule as tools to abuse others. I have more if you’d like to hear it. And if you live close to me–you know where I live, I continue to offer friendship over a cup of coffee. We all make mistakes.

  • Socratease2

    You are delirious, I am just trying to save all CHE  readers their precious time. Personally, I find this great entertainment. Shame is not an emotion I am currently experiencing. Hey, if you want to be my friend and get this conversation back on track just complete the sentence I sent you. Come on, do it. I know you can.

  • 12080243

    Still hiding, Soratease2? Remember you could establish a little credibility by calling me. You know my number:
    thought you would refuse to begin, just begin to establish your credibility. I did. In good faith I offer my research. I open myself and my research to anyone’s review. You wouldn’t. Your namesake, dear Socrates–ease2, had a set. Where are yours? Have a bit of courage? Just a little? We’re not asking much. As a matter of fact, I offered that you inform me in private who you are, remember? I have many faculty friends who remain anonymous, and I respect that and them. I fully understand why. If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I won my freedom to speak and do research that I choose to do. And that I would never violate a confidence. You know my name, as does everyone who reads comments on CHE. You can easily google me, too. Now, you fail again. You are a fraud and I believer anyone who has followed your comments, you, yourself, prove you are a stealth advocate for college sports and use ad hominem and ridicule as tools to abuse others. I have more if you’d like to hear it. And if you live close to me–you know where I live, I continue to offer friendship over a cup of coffee. We all make mistakes.

  • 12080243

    Dearest Socrates-tease2, please call me. It will be private. Don’t be afraid. I’ve answered all your questions in the open. You can at least call me but you’ve decided to embark on this discussion. That is your choice. You will not bully me off this this topic like you have others. 

     I thought you, Socrates-tease2, would refuse to begin, just begin to establish your credibility. I did. In good faith I offer my research. I open myself and my research to anyone’s review. You wouldn’t. Your namesake, dear Socrates–tease2, had a set. Where are yours? Have a bit of courage? Just a little? We’re not asking much. As a matter of fact, I offered that you inform me in private who you are, remember? I have many faculty friends who remain anonymous, and I respect that and them. I fully understand why. If you knew anything about me, you’d know that I won my freedom to speak and do research that I choose to do. And that I would never violate a confidence. You know my name, as does everyone who reads comments on CHE. You can easily google me, too. Now, you fail again. You are a fraud and I believer anyone who has followed your comments, you, yourself, prove you are a stealth advocate for college sports and use ad hominem and ridicule as tools to abuse others. I have more if you’d like to hear it. And if you live close to me–you know where I live, I continue to offer friendship over a cup of coffee. We all make mistakes.

  • CWsDad

    You posted studies that prove nothing related to the topic. Misdirect all you want but this started when you made a claim and then failed to adequately support it. The burden of proof is on you.

    Besides I’m not sure what a stealth agent is. It sounds paranoid and purposely vague. Like McCarthy or Bachmann.

  • manoflamancha

    Socratease2 and 12080243, get together in a boxing ring, or find a nearby motel, which suits, and slug it out. You’ve both become tiresome. All thinking people know that big time athletics has been corrupted by big money and low IQs. Shut em down!

  • 12080243

    Hi manoflamancha, If you’d read the comments you would have seen that I signed my name to my first comment on this thread. I don’t mind if you didn’t use my name. You may have been trying to be thoughtful, which I appreciate. Anyway, I sympathize with you not wanting to read all of them. I wouldn’t either. However, you will quickly learn what all the fuss is about by doing a simple experiment: (It will take a lot less time than reading all the comments.) Send your view–”Shut em [big time athletics] down!”–to Socratease2 by “reply” comment and see what happens. Just a simple experiment. Give it a try.

    Chauncey M. DePree, Jr., DBA, Professor, School of Accountancy, College of Business, University of Southern Mississippi, Hattiesburg, MS.

  • manoflamancha

    No need, we all know that Socratease2 is a shill for athletic departments, and maybe he works directly for the clowns at the NCAA office. He should change his handle to socrashill2!

  • 12080243

    Thanks, manoflamancha. I was a bit slow on the uptake. 

    Apologies to fellow commenters.

  • thenomad

    It seems to me that international student mobility isn’t nessesarily slowing but that the patterns of where they go may be shifting.  While the UK, for example, may see a slowing of international students due to visa restrictions, they may also see a slowing due to increased tuition, and I’d be interested to learn if there are any implications for UK nationals who may be less likely to now attend post-secondary institutions due to the rising costs as well.

    As a staff member in the international student recruitment unit of my university in Canada, we definitely hear the argument that international students are taking up spaces in classes that would otherwise be reserved for Canadian students.  The only support for this argument is a statistical one, in that our entrance averages are based on a combination of the number of spaces available, the average scores achieved by all applicants to a program in the previous year, and the normal uptake of admissions offers.  The distribution of GPAs, not surprisingly, waivers very little from year to year, perhaps a percentage point or two one way or the other at most.  International student applications have the ability, certainly, to skew the averages higher if one can assume that the majority of such applicants are high achievers, but the more likely case, statistically speaking, is that the higher the volume of applications, the more normalised a distribution becomes, not necessarily skewed.  As a result, any student who meets our minimum average is guaranteed to get in, regardless of that student being Canadian or international, and as 22280998 states, international students are often more likely to study in programs that local students tend not to.  I’ve never heard of a case at our university, which has no international or domestic student quotas, where a Canadian student lost a spot because an international student got it.  The only reason any student loses a spot is that they don’t meet the minimum requirement.

    In addition, our labour market will continue to require us to attract international students because as a nation with stagnant birth rates and increasing ages of others, we continue to experience labour shortages in all types of fields, from professional to labour positions, and as long as there are people who continue to want to immigrate here, I can’t forsee any change in Canada receiving international students, regardless of any protests Canadians may have.

  • kohai

    Making international students pay the full cost of their undergraduate tuition at a publicly funded institution, emphasizing undergraduate, is a no brainer. At the graduate level it gets a little more muddled I think.

  • burger1376

    You are flat out wrong, and your argument smells of liberal propaganda.  

    International students don’t flood areas that would otherwise not have been filled.  The problem is that most qualifications for international students are far lower than that of American students.  It is far more difficult for an American to get into an MIT engineering program than a Chinese student.  Examples: the American needs high scores, high test scores, work experience, volunteer experience, sports, art, etc, etc.  The Chinese student needs a test score.  Not an English test score, but a math test score.  If that was all that was required of American student, Americans could compete more.  All they would have to do is copy Chinese students and sit in their rooms studying maths for a decade or more.  

    On top of this, because international students flood these programs, the result is that Americans don’t want to do them.  It is a stereotype that Indians and Chinese will outperform Americans when that is simply not true and there are no real measurements to prove it.  So, Americans, with these biased perceptions, decide on other fields.  Lets not forget that some other fields like finance, life sciences, social sciences, and economics also use a lot of maths.  American students can easily outperform in these areas.  Assuming they don’t perform well in engineering or hard sciences is just naive and ignorant.  

    As well, international students flooding these programs actually downgrade the jobs that result from studying in these programs.  When US companies are more interested in hiring an Indian or Chinese because of the perception that they are “better”, why would a white American go into a career where their skin color would go against them.  

    Lets not forget that most international students are accepted simply because they have money and they bring “diversity” to US universities.  

    As for the article’s assumption that there is “hostility” towards international students in the US, that is just ridiculous.  The hostility comes from Americans Universities and so-called scholars who continuously attack Americans in education.  Americans are far more qualified than most people in any other country in the world.  The attacks on us are causing a backlash.  But the hostilities didn’t start with us.  It started with the discriminatory US higher education system that hates Americans.  

  • burger1376

    As an opponent to the current acceptance levels of international students, I have some issue with your comment.  Most of us who oppose the current situation, especially in the USA, don’t mind international students paying the same as national students.  We don’t even mind if they get scholarships (although some might argue against me on that). What we are tired of is international students getting places in top US universities when they are hardly qualified.  Like I said in another post above, an Americans student needs high test scores, high class scores, work experience, volunteer experience, sports, art, music, etc.  International students, for the most part, just need to be international, have a different skin color, or a simple test score.  Most international students in the US are less qualified than American students, but the liberal argument for diversity leads to discrimination against Americans.  

  • kohai

    International students parents did not pay any taxes that support publically funded institutions so therefore they should pay the full cost of their tuition.
    As for those complain that they are taking up spaces from more qualified domestic candidates, which I really wasn’t commenting on at all, why don’t those same institutions apply the same standards to foreign sudents and charge them the full cost of tuition.  Sounds like the solution to the unqualified student problem.  But remember, money talks.

  • repphd

    I am a marketing person so perhaps I might look at this a bit differently.

    1.  OK Tom good title and good introduction  you got us hooked, my guess is you will get lots of comments.  I don’t  know if you actually took Marketing 101 in college, but you are practicing it.
    2.  As a marketer with a psychological bent I look at this whole issue of replication from an external validity perspective.  One of the problems we have in our field and others in the social sciences I try to read is it is difficult to get replications published.  I have done some scaling work in my career and have learned, sometimes with pain, the value of checking out the external validity of a scale based on multiple uses before I try and borrow it for my use.  While we can often find mutliple uses of a scale and the reports on how it works, we see less opportunities for replication of basic internal validity findings of specific construct relationships.  Replications only occur when we  add something to  the mix; straight replication seems to rarely be published.
    3.  So I applaud Dr. Nosek for  his creative way of approaching the replication problem, really thinking outside of the box.

  • willismg

    Despite the tone of the article, this is an excellent area for study, and not only for psychology.  There are many areas of engineering and even physics where papers are being published based on the “predictions” of essentially unverified, and highly tunable, computer models that could do with a look-see.  

    The argument about psychology possibly being harmed as a reason to desist is pretty humorous.  Oh wait, they *really* feel that way in Psychology departments?

    One final piece of snark, which I don’t really mean as snark.  Psychology may indeed be a valid field of study.  But I would stop short of calling it “science”.  I would also go as far as to say that maybe part of the problem is that in their zeal to be labeled as a science, psychologists may be using techniques that are valid for investigating the physical world but that are inappropriate for assessing the state of something as variable as people’s feelings or reactions to stimuli. 

    In the physical world, the implicit assumption is that if you do the same thing, the same result should occur.  And this should be true whether you do it, or anybody else does it, 1 time, or 1000000 times. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I can react differently to the same stimulus between morning and afternoon.

  • pflady

    If this undertaking involved any vertebrates other than humans, it would probably wouldn’t be allowed by institutional animal care and use committees.  It would be deemed a waste of animal subjects.  Too bad.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1940380 Stephanie Seiler

    How is a field that uses the scientific method not science?

  • willismg

    Using the scientific method doesn’t make something science.  Using the scientific method is only appropriate if the thing you’re studying has aspects that can be uncovered by using the scientific method.  If the thing you’re studying isn’t consistent with the underlying presumptions of the use of the scientific method, then the scientific method is not something that should be applied.  And any results obtained thereby are suspect.

    This all sounds more confusing than it is in my head…(maybe I need a psychologist..)  One way of thinking about it is that the scientific method assumes that there is no “memory” of past activities when an experiment is performed on an object.  If I do the same thing, under the same conditions to the same object, I should get the same result.  Or if I do the same thing under the same conditions to an exact duplicate of the original object, I should get the same result.  I would say that this disqualifies its use on any object with consciousness since you can never regain the same conditions on an object, nor can you have exact duplicates of two objects with consciousness.

  • fdhorowitz

    Many years ago, when Boyd McCandless was appointed editor of the then new APA journal, Developmental Psychology, and invited me to join its editorial board, I suggested that one of the criteria for accepting a research article should be whether or not the author(s) had replicated the results in a second study.  It was deemed impractical. Nevertheless,I have always thought that some evidence of the replication of results prior to publication would have advanced our science considerably.  Frances Degen Horowitz

  • http://adrianoesch.wordpress.com/ adrianoesch

    not if it takes 20 attempts (studies) until you get a positiv and then this one gets published.

  • kenneymp

    This song will now be stuck in my mind all day! ;-0)

  • http://adrianoesch.wordpress.com/ adrianoesch

    as bghansel already pointed out, the problem is not the methods, the topic, the researchers or whatever. the real problem in my view is that we still rely uniquely on gatekeepers to publish. the real bias is coming from the journals publishing only a percentage of all the studies. its not appropriate. why isnt it already common to publish first to something like arxiv.org befor you submit your paper at a journal? journals shoulnt be GATEKEEPER but CURATORS!

  • easydoesit

    @willismg: Even in the “hard” sciences (physics, chemistry, etc.) there is no expectation that the results will be the same each time. That’s why those fields use models that *estimate* the true value and that also provide various indices of error in the estimate (standard errors). Granted, their estimates are more precise and farther along as a science than in psychology, but that doesn’t make the use of the scientific method by psychologists any less scientific. Science is a process not an outcome.

  • eelalien

    In my field (education), I have typically found that conducting longitudinal studies is the preferred method of gathering data and validating results for research when seeking publication. When the social sciences are involved, single studies are often simply snapshots of a particular set of characteristics for a specific group at that time. If results differ with changing group composition over 3-5 years, it provides a much broader data base from which to extract results, and derive appropriate conclusions.

  • willismg

     For Mr. Doesit,  Yes there is scatter around some expected value in physical experiments, but if one is sufficiently careful, one can minimize this and see clear answers.  In psychology, one is in fact measuring reactions of a conscious entity which alters itself with each application of the experiment.  Indeed, depending on how perverse or puckish one is feeling on any given day, or depending on whether or not it’s raining outside, the same person can be in a different mood and react differently.  The billiard ball has no such ability to change the outcome of any experiment performed upon it.  Science is indeed about the process but if one wants to apply a process, one should ensure that the process, with all its built-in limitations, is able to achieve what is desired.

    In my view, the scientific process has no hope of teasing out whatever it is that makes us do the things we do when somebody prods us.  The fact that I can exercise control over my own conscious entity (my brain) means that the underlying assumptions of the scientific method have been violated.

    Again, I’m not saying that psychology isn’t worthy of study.  I’m merely saying that the application of an inappropriate process in that study might be part of the problem with any lack of reproducibility in the field.  If only they weren’t so damned insecure about the nature of their field, maybe somebody could figure out a more appropriate process for psychology than the scientific method.

  • morrisville

     This is precisely the reason why psychology departments are self-conscious: we’re dismissed as “not a science” by people who don’t understand how psychological experiments are conducted. Most studies are replicated on new samples of respondents, for example. Personally, I applaud the replication project. If the results don’t stand up to solid replication, that’s important information. Had psychology been the first field to be selected by a team of non-psychologists, however, I would have been suspicious of motivations. Let’s also see this expanded to other fields!

  • easydoesit

    Tom: Would you please elaborate on the basis for your assertion: “If it turns out that a sizable percentage (a quarter? half?) of the results published in these three top psychology journals can’t be replicated, it’s not going to reflect well on the field or on the researchers whose papers didn’t pass the test. 

    Your prediction about the *perception* of nonreplicated studies may be true, but do you think that perception would be well founded when there are a variety of valid reasons for nonreplication to occur?

  • refranck

    A most interesting article, and also interesting comments.  I’d like to pick up some threads in the comments by tdr75, bghansel, adrianoesch, and fdhorowitz.
     
    Seems the incentives are obvious.  To get tenure, one must get published.  To get published, one must have positive results — despite the persuasive case for negative results also being valuable.

    Hence, there is a clear motivation to make the subjects behave in the manner desired by the one running the experiment (my paraphrase of a comment by B.F. Skinner).
     
    If the status quo is unsatisfactory, I’d offer the following modest proposal for improving it.  Universally adopt the following principle:  Reproducing others’ work “counts” (in some real sense) for promotion and tenure – with, of course, confirming results counting the same as negative results.
     
     

  • MajorRetard

    I agree. Medicine is not a science. Nor is so-called “neuroscience”, nor is quantum mechanics. 

  • jk_comments

     then they would unfortunately learn the wrong thing: alpha=0.05 means that if there is no true effect in a population (that means absolutely no effect) and given some information about variation, sampling error alone will create a significant effect with p=0.05 based on sample observations. As “exactly no effect inte population” is for most experiments a false assumption, p=0.05 does not refer to any real-world probability. For replications the situation is even worse: here you have to calculate the power of the study which you can only do if you know the true effect size. Conservative analyses suggest that many studies in psychology are heavily underpowered, though. You might well expect a higher proportion of non-replications based on power-problems alone, but you cannot calculate the probability.

  • bscmath78

    In the physical sciences there is the general problem that experiments are often difficult to do and often difficult to get to work consistently, even by the same experimenter, in the same lab.  

    In the medical sciences there is the problem that results sometimes are not reproducible or are contradictory.
      
    One research project on illegal drugs used the same genetic strains of mice, following the same experiment protocols in 3 labs in 3 different cities and got some very different results. See “Genetics of Mouse Behavior: Interactions with Laboratory Environment”: http://www.jstor.org/stable/2898651http://www.neurofly.com/NeuroSeminar_files/Science%201999%20Crabbe.pdf
    With a popular science mention here:http://books.google.ca/books?id=gZVaXvKwxHIC&pg=PA105&dq=%22the+differences+were+not+consistent%22&hl=en&ei=UV3dTp7bJaTg0QGisIXQDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22the%20differences%20were%20not%20consistent%22&f=false

    This is why repeated experiments by the same team, different teams and different teams in other parts of the world are important for any experiments that are important to the outside world.

  • bscmath78

    Then there is the case of Jan Hendrik Schön, the prolific star physicist. Other physicists couldn’t replicate his spectacular results, to little effect, but then someone reading his high profile papers reported anomalies, which eventually lead to his downfall.
     
    As usual, no fault was found with his many co-authors and peer reviewers. There were many, since he was publishing a paper every 8 days, on average, in 2001.  
    http://books.google.ca/books?id=ToALIM28uScC&pg=PA27&dq=%22Jan+Hendrik+Sch%C3%B6n%22+%22eight+days%22&hl=en&ei=tFPdTrWIB6Tl0QGJ47SSDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22Jan%20Hendrik%20Sch%C3%B6n%22%20%22eight%20days%22&f=false
    http://books.google.ca/books?id=dP7oKntCUUUC&pg=PA144&dq=%22Jan+Hendrik+Sch%C3%B6n%22+%22eight+days%22&hl=en&ei=tFPdTrWIB6Tl0QGJ47SSDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDgQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=%22Jan%20Hendrik%20Sch%C3%B6n%22%20%22eight%20days%22&f=false
    http://yclept.ucdavis.edu/course/280/Schoen.Yin.pdf

    What has changed? 

    Jan Hendrik Schön’s mistake was to publish very high profile results in an area of intense industrial/commercial interest which would result in experiments trying to replicate.

  • bscmath78

    refrank, contradictory negative results should be worth at least 3 times a positive result confirming the results of someone famous. Rooting out error should be highly prized.

    One of the most famous experiments in Physics is the 1887 Michelson–Morley experiment, which failed to find evidence of the luminiferous aether.

    Another famous experiment is Louis Pasteur’s famous experiment where he failed to find “spontaneous generation.”

    It should be noted that if Pasteur had used different materials his experiment would have found “spontaneous generation” because the heat used was insufficient to kill certain microorganisms.

    The young scientist should seek to slay the theories of the elders, to be David to the tenured Goliaths.

    “A beautiful theory killed by an ugly fact.”

    - T.H. Huxley, in a completely different context.

  • dwl_sdca

    “Further a failure to replicate does NOT mean that the effect is false or
    that the original researcher did something wrong.  It *might* mean that
    the effect is false, but there are many contributors to a lack of
    reproducibility, and all of them are important to understand.”

    Not the least of which is the possibility that something important to the outcome was unrecognized and unmeasured in the original study — and that unmeasured factor was not common in the population of the replication study.

    Unable to replicate could be a generator of new hypotheses.

  • bscmath78

    There is the problem that in certain fields somewhat consistent results are achieved by using highly inbred test subjects – fruit flies, rats, mice etc. that aren’t even representative of their own species, but often breed for specific experimental purposes.

    As I wrote previously:

    “The SAT/ACT based college admissions process reminds me of the story told in Statistics, 3rd Edition, by Freedman, Pisani and Purves (all at Berkeley in 1998), about Robert Tryon’s rat breeding experiments at Berkeley.

    Tryon selected and bred two strains of rats based on their abilities in solving rat mazes. He produced a strain of “maze-bright” rats and a strain of “maze-dull” rats. The “maze-bright” rats were superb at the maze test, so much better than the dull rats. But very interestingly, the bright rats were NO better than the dull rats at ANY other test of
    rat intelligence!

    In a sense, Tryon created an elite, highly selective university for rats with a verified highly competitive admissions system.  And it did consistently produce rats great at solving the maze Tryon provided (it is not indicated if they would do well in mazes at other labs). Forthis narrow purpose it is irrelevant that rats were no better at anything
    else and may have been no good in other people’s mazes. It is also irrelevant that the “maze-bright” rats failed to improve after about 9 generations from the start of the selection and breeding experiment.”

    In at least one version of the story the “maze-bright” rats were only at good the specific maze that had been selected on, but not other mazes or any other test of rat capabilities.  In another version, more than 20 years later descendants were better on other mazes, but what might have happened over those many generations of rats that was not documented?  For a sample of various versions of the “maze-bright” rat story have a look here:

    http://chronicle.com/article/Harvard-by-Lottery/131322/#comment-484775851

  • darccity

    So what. What if there were no field of psychology? How would humanity lose (other than an absence of an easy major for women to be sucked into so they’ll have no career future)? At a huge percentage of universities, by far the largest major is psych, despite psych grads consistently earning the second lowest. Worse yet, psych specialty fields like industrial organization and environment psych have become a dominant portion of business programs, often taught by psych PhDs out of psych texts — the core message being to bamboozle customers, employees, and suppliers into acting against their own interests. In education, psych has played a large role in the scadalously irrelevant curricula of education schools. And finally, the phoney ed leadership doctorates (chock full of low-level psych methodology) has polluted the ranks of high school prinicipals and college admistrative flunkies.

  • dwl_sdca

    Given that the null hypothesis is true, the p-value is the probability that a test finding or _one_that_is_more_extreme_ as that which was observed in the study. The highlighted part is important. But the p-value issue and the likelihood that the finding was merely the result of chance are not the most important factors.

    Consider that negative findings of similar studies were never published or even submitted. We have no clue as to the number of similar studies that were conducted.

    As I point out below, the real issue to me is the possibility that something unmeasured yet vital was the key to the finding. An unsuccessful replication can suggest a need for further examination of all differences in the two study populations.

  • bscmath78

    tdr75, it is joyous news that psychologists recognize that their papers are in large measure worthless.  It seems like proof that for most psychologists it doesn’t matter if what they publish is true or not, otherwise there would be no need to have a special effort to reproduce the results, because if truth mattered to psychologists and funders there would already have been multiple replication attempts.  

    This activity ignores the aspect of poor statistical analysis which results in the  “plug-and-chug” approach and publication on p< 0.01, in some cases without much attention to whether the results are of any practical significance, instead of "statistical significance," which can be achieved via having a large enough sample.  

    It sometimes seems you could publish that eye of newt provided statistically significant improvements in the CLA scores of undergrads, without people paying much attention to the practical significance.  It may be that the statistically significant result is only a 1% difference in means.  It might mean that 33% of students did worse, 33% stayed the same and 34% did better.  CLA itself might be a highly dubious measurement and your experimental design might have been questionable.

  • bscmath78

     tdr75, it is interesting that you mention economics given the laments about the disconnected nature of econometrics.  How much reproduction of economics theory in the actual world or even in the stock market? 

  • bscmath78

    tdr75, I agree in general with your comments, I am just adding some additional aspects, which are all geared to showing the present deficiency of psychology compared to the history of the physical sciences (at least as taught in high school many decades ago).

    Because Newton had tenure and was naturally secretive, it took Halley to cajole Newton into coming up with his Theory of Gravitation, or at least writing something down.   This theory was in fact quite controversial in some circles since it involved a mysterious “action at a distance” and failed to explain its source. 

    It was largely a mathematical theory that provided a mathematical rationale behind Kepler’s results.  It is probably the Halley’s Comet return prediction that was most convincing, since it provided a  prediction that was proven true. Newton provided Physics you could use to do calculations that provided predictions that could be checked.

    Henri Poincaré discovered that the Solar System could not be proved to be stable. Newton can’t even be used to solve the three-body problem except approximately (that is partly why space shots have to do “course corrections”). Henri Poincaré even discovered his proof that the Solar System was stable, was wrong and told people. He was still awarded the prize

    Anomalies in the orbit of Uranus result in the discovery of Neptune and other anomalies resulted in the discovery of Pluto.  Anomalies in the orbit of Mercury failed to result in the discovery of Vulcan, but instead resulted in Einstein’s Theory of General Relativity which modified Newton’s classical theory.

  • marklarson

    Politics or motivations aside, conducting replications of published work sounds like a great idea. Now if journals in all fields would stop publishing research using non-random samples of college students…  Because that’s “results” that will be unlikely to be replicated!

  • weirdscience

    I take issue with the claim that psychology does not have “aspects that can be uncovered by using the scientific method.” Your main argument against this seems to be only that human behavior is noisy and that individuals learn from repeated exposure to the same conditions. The scientific method, applied to human behavior allows us discover important patterns in how people respond to conditions. These patterns do not allow us to perfectly predict individual behavior, but they do help us understand how individuals are most likely to respond. This knowledge allows us to decide how to teach people new skills, help them make better food choices, rid them of debilitating phobias or overcome severe addictions. To dismiss the application of the scientific method in psychology because it doesn’t lead to perfect predictions at the individual level is to dismiss a large body of research findings that can and have been used to dramatically improve people’s lives.

    Replication in psychology does not mean putting the exact same person in the exact same situation, because that is impossible. However, if similar people are put in a similar situation and, on average, respond the same way, then that suggest that the underlying theory is supported. Psychology is often accused of having “physics envy” but the only reason for this envy is that it would satisfy critics like willismg who fail to see value in theory that doesn’t lead to perfect prediction at the individual level.

  • bscmath78

    tdr75, continuing with Newton.

    Isaac Newton went on to continued success in spite of the inability of others to replicate his experiments with prisms.  Attempts to replicate were complicated by Newton’s inaccurate/misleading/partial reports of his experiments and apparatus.  See “Leaps in the Dark” by John Waller:

    “Newton’s 1672 letters to the Royal Society gave wholly inadequate directions for replicating most of his experiments. For the majority of the tests he mentioned, the distances specified for the gaps between prism and window, board and prism, and prism and wall were only vaguely expressed.” 

    Robert Millikan went on to a Nobel Prize in Physics for his oil-drop experiment, which others had trouble replicating. Millikan had claimed that he had published all the data in his experiment, when he actually only published the data that matched his theory.  See “Einstein’s Luck: The Truth Behind Some of the Greatest Scientific Discoveries”, by John Waller.

    The important point is that people tried to reproduce both Newton and Millikan and reported when they failed.  The fact that others with modern equipment and a precise cookbook can reproduce the results, does not alter the problems faced at the time.

    Then there are the very suspicious Boyle vacuum pump experiments that apparently would only work when Robert Hooke, the assistant, was there to manage the vacuum or air-pump. Apparently it was all innocent, just the problem of finicky experimental equipment requiring the close attention of its builder.  But then both Boyle and Newton were secretly alchemists. 

    “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?”
    “Who will guard the guardians?”
    “Who watches the watchmen?”

    See more in my posts relating to a case of scientific fraud starting here:
    http://chronicle.com/article/Despite-Occasional-Scandals/129997/#comment-379909553

  • bscmath78

    darccity, psychology provided a vital source of “bird courses” like “Abnormal Psychology” for engineers, at least in earlier decades.
     
    My guess is that in the era after reading serious novels died out and before reality television triumphed that psychology provided a painless way of trying to gain some insight into the behavior of people.   It was also probably aided by the fashion for Freud, Jung and others.  The enormous success of pop psychology, therapy and self-help probably helped.

    You wrote, “bamboozle customers, employees, and suppliers into acting against their own interests. ”

    Propaganda, PR, Psych Warfare, Advertising and Marketing are areas where psychology theories are tested. I’m not sure how effective they were. Goebbels and Leni Riefenstahl don’t seem to have been psych majors. Edward Bernays did come out of the Wilson Administration’s WW I propaganda machine to create “public relations.” But it is unclear to what extent the successful just use theory as a shiny gloss to sell their personal intuition.

  • refranck

    Rejoinder for bscmath78.  No doubt negative results from replications are more exciting, but giving them extra credit near-term introduces the same sort of perverse incentive we now have.  Seems to me the incentive system should be neutral with respect to positive or negative results — for both initial studies and attempts to replicate.  An incentive toward negative results is quite possibly just as bad as an incentive toward positive results. 

  • bernardjsmith

    I think those who want to dismiss the social sciences including psychology as outside of  science are invoking an incredibly scientistic approach to the scientific method. In the hard sciences the objects of our inquiry are PERCEIVED as acting as if they themselves are not engaged in sense making but that is not always (ever?) the case in the social sciences. Not only are we sometimes engaged in ignoring and controlling the sense making activities of others, sometimes we actively dismiss the sense making activities of those we study and at other times in other fields and disciplines we work to try to understand the sense made by others. In my own field (sociology) some of us are even engaged in understanding our own sense making. In any event when we work with sense making subjects and when we treat ourselves as constructors of meaning and not simply as reporters and readers of texts written by nature we can still do science but our subjects are rich, intricate, and very complex.
    And those in the social sciences would seem to adopt incredibly scientistic approaches when they invoke the same kind of accounts (of literal causality and the like) as those in the hard sciences. It is the coroner who “causes” the suicide, the hospital committee that “creates” the medical error, the CDC that makes us “obese” – a very different way of thinking about “causality” than the ways that physicists and biologists think about causality.
     

  • rpm13

    I have never been a fan of exact replication because conceptual replication with extension adds more value for about the same effort. Science is cumulative and self-correcting in the normal course of events. Still it’s quite possible that standard research methods have become biased toward positive findings and I applaud the empirical approach and massive effort that I found at the Reproducibility Project website. My prediction is that we will end up with some reforms of standard practice which older social psychologists might find reminiscent of the Greenwald era at the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. One concern is that too many areas of study (e.g., longitudinal studies, small group experiments) won’t pass the project’s feasibility test for replication.

  • http://twitter.com/muswellbrook muswellbrook

    pffft. This will just confirm that most psych studies are underpowered. Average beta of psychology studies is about 0.52. Thus, I expect they will replicate something less than 50% of the published works. No big deal if you understand stats. Nothing to see here that a careful meta-analysis of power in the same journals wouldn’t demonstrate (at most, the replication project will provide more reason to report effect sizes in studies, rather than only p-values).

    see this youtube for why replicability is not related to p, but beta! http://chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/is-psychology-about-to-come-undone/29045

  • arrive2__net

    Sciences that want to get it right have to be ready to be tested, or go bust. I say good idea, Nosek.

    I think a lot of people are assuming that there will be some major failure to replicate, but of course the results aren’t in yet. As Nosek suggested, a failure to replicate in this context could reflect a fault in the original research, or in the replication. 

    It appears that many of the replications may have to be done on a shoestring, and I wonder if that could affect the accuracy of the outcomes.

    Psychology is the human institution through which we try to understand the human mind and human behavior, and psychology is not afraid to ask the big questions here. It is a great thing for the field to establish a lack of fear of such challenges.     

    Bart Schuster
    OnlineGraduateSchool.tripod.com/All.htm
    Twitter.com/arrive2_net

  • masdev_seu

    What’s to say he won’t just fake his results just so he doesn’t make psychologists look bad. That’s probably his whole reason for doing this project. He’s just gonna make all the research he checks seem real on purpose.

  • willismg

     My experience has been that almost any field that uses the word “science” in its title doesn’t really have much to do with science…  Political Science, Computer Science, Social Science, etc….

    Extending the definition of “science” so that the original intent is derided as being too scientistic (is that a word?) is tantamount to claiming that “when I use a word it means exactly what I say it does.”  (Apologies to Lewis Carroll).

  • bscmath78

    Back in 1993 Nalini Amabady and Robert Rosenthal published this paper on how 6 second SILENT video clips of instructors teaching allowed Psychology students to evaluate Psychology instructors with a statistically significant relationship to the evaluations done by students who actually attended the whole course.

    http://faculty.fortlewis.edu/burke_b/Senior/BLINK%20replication/teacherthinslicing.pdf

    The paper gained some fame by being referenced in the bestseller “Blink” by Malcolm Gladwell.

  • bscmath78

    In a lot of fields, 95% of what is published is not worth reading.  Face it, if it wasn’t worth attempting to replicate by a separate team, it wasn’t worth doing in the first place, let alone publishing it.

    This is a facet of the way “publish or perish” has worked out.  It was already seen as a serious problem way back in 1964 in a popular science book published by Life Magazine. 

    “The Scientist,” by Henry Margenau and David Bergamini:

    “Antidotes for a flood 

    While some scientists see automation as their last-ditch hope for coping with the mounting flood of words, others argue that the best way to control the output is to cut it down. In many universities and industries, promotions hinge, in part, on the sheer bulk of a scholar’s published papers. The pressure to ‘publish or perish’ clutters scientific literature with items of small consequence masquerading under pretentious titles. Authors of scientific papers, say the reformers, must learn to police their own productivity, and scholarly reviewers — who traditionally do not attack another man’s work unless it contains actual errors— should go further, praising genuine contributions and puncturing empty ones.”

    “Plus ça change, plus c’est la même chose”
    “The more things change, the more they stay the same.”

    - Alphonse Karr, in 1849

    And why have things not improved in the years since 1964 and instead worsened? 

    We might look to: 

    “Cui bono?”
    “To whose profit?”

    - Cicero

  • Defenestrator

    I love how the article says that this effort is about protecting psychology as a science and not tearing it down, and then the headline just completely ignores that stated motivation and the “stay on message” advice.

  • Bernecky

    What’s the condition of a group of individuals every one of whom has come to expect others, outsiders, to pony up for re-examinations of conclusions…because those conclusions have no use, serve no purpose, and will otherwise never be tested or even known to exist?

    The pursuit (psychology) *might* have something going for it if the experiments were assigned, similarly to the way experiments are assigned to those who engage in real science (or an art that results in either life or death): medicine.  

    What if everybody’s funding depended upon someone’s discovering a link between 9/11 and Iraq, so that there’d exist evidence in favor of the war (if not in favor of a brain in every body that’s held down a chair in Congress since 9/11), which war has taken the lives of thousands of individuals…a couple of whom, if they weren’t exactly pulling for psychology, may’ve been willing to feed a few psychologists.

  • panacea

    I didn’t think he was snarky, and he pointed out that failure to replicate does not mean either fraud, deceit or anything unethical.  Sometimes bias is unconscious.  Sometimes flukes happen.

    Difficulty in replicating results can be as informative as the original result itself, and is an important part of the checks and balances of scientific research.

  • http://twitter.com/rogerskyy Kyle Rogers

    Not a fan of the direction the comments took. I think double checking work is always important and if someone has the time to do that then more power to them. With anything there are going to be different outcomes whether it be a cancer research study or psychology but it’s important to get the information right. So I say bring it on mass peer review!

  • nelsonpreacher

    This is no surprised, every research must be verifiable to check if the claim is true or not. Just like the recent research on coffee. Some says it lowers your blood flow in your brain others say it stimulates your brain. But to say that psychology as a science is to come undone is preposterous.

  • 5768

    Measurements can be accurate and not precise, precise and not accurate, both accurate and precise, or neither accurate nor precise.

    How can anyone discover “true stuff” in the event trials are merely reproducible?

    Most of us in the physical sciences know that science itself runs amuk when it claims to establish “absolute” truth no matter how reproducible our trials.

    Determining outright fraud is one thing, but I sense aspirations to (physical) scientism by this Reproducibility Project which itself appears to labor under false premises.

  • 22067030

    This is an entirely different barrel of fish.  The “publish or perish” rule results in a lot of papers that practically no one reads and have little effect other than cluttering up libraries (and not even that now that we have online subscriptions) and getting people tenure.

    On the other hand, the papers that had an effect in climate science were widely read and had a major effect.  Whether you dislike current trends in climate science or not, it would be very silly to dismiss the controversial papers in climate science as vita padding.

    GLMcColm

  • calgrad

    “Not the least of which is the possibility that something important to the outcome was unrecognized and unmeasured in the original study — and that unmeasured factor was not common in the population of the replication study.”

    Isn’t this just a longer way of saying that the original study, if it asserted there was a connection between some cause and some effect, was wrong?

    I’m a sociologist, not a psychologist, but don’t psychology papers usually have the form “We did X, we observed Y, and we conclude Z”.  If somebody else does X and doesn’t not observe Y, then Z has been _disproved_ if the second study was done properly.

    Yes, there might be a confounding effect.  Yes, much can be learned this way.  But the conclusion of the original study is now known to be wrong.

  • bscmath78

    For some of my previous critiques of “Academically Adrift” and CLA please see posts starting here:

    http://chronicle.com/article/Academically-Adrift-The/130743/#comment-437779649

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/richard-vedder-on-the-ills-of-higher-education/28716#comment-156293507
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/the-revolution-of-rising-expectations/28804#comment-164271291
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/rigor-in-the-business-school-guest-post-jason-fertig/32657#comment-157246585
    http://chronicle.com/article/The-Self-Exam-That-Higher/128543/#comment-282472182
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/too-much-for-too-little/30220#comment-297275019
    http://chronicle.com/article/Academically-Adrift-a/126371/#comment-156687418
     
    For related material please see posts starting here:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/headcount/a-president-urges-his-peers-to-reclaim-the-conversation-about-liberal-arts-colleges/29908#comment-493736701

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/campus-cfos-are-right/29787#comment-246226619
    http://chronicle.com/article/A-Perfect-Storm-in/126451/#comment-154352120
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/onhiring/politics-is-killing-us/29663#comment-334191983
    http://chronicle.com/article/44-Billion-Ought-to-Buy-Some/126812/#comment-168648719
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/pell-mell/28873#comment-167608793
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/against-relevance/38096#comment-284724578
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/the-university-of-stonehenge-part-2-of-3/30451#comment-323063660

    Please note that the above threads include other posts by me on other aspects.

  • bscmath78

    For evidence that in 1976 Berkeley statistics students were intellectually superior to most of the statistics TAs that were inflicted upon them:

    http://chronicle.com/article/Negotiators-Reach-an-Impasse/131534/#comment-496668008

    For the parallels between SAT/ACT based admissions and Tryon’s “maze-bright” rats:
    http://chronicle.com/article/Harvard-by-Lottery/131322/#comment-484775851

    For an illustration of how poor a predictor of college GPA that SAT can be, even with a SAT Math range of 300 to 800, for a single year, at a single 4 year university, for all Computer Science majors for 3 semesters, see the subthread starting here:
    http://chronicle.com/article/Harvard-by-Lottery/131322/#comment-483721868 

    SAT Verbal was worthless. SAT Math predicted 6%, while High School Math marks predicted 19% of the cumulative GPA.

    For an illustration of the parallels between NCLB and the Revised Code of 1862:
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/5th-avenue-percussions/30953#comment-372249648

    For an example of how college seems to cause loss of civic knowledge, at least according to the ISI’s tests, please see this subthread:
    http://chronicle.com/article/College-at-Risk/130893/#comment-450329553

    For reasons why ed schools should not be trusted, see various comments starting here:
    http://chronicle.com/article/Negotiators-Reach-an-Impasse/131534/#comment-496611616

    For my critique of the misuse of medical admissions statistics to promote the Humanities:
    http://chronicle.com/article/The-Liberal-Arts-as-Guideposts/130475/#comment-430281277 
    http://chronicle.com/article/The-Liberal-Arts-as-Guideposts/130475/#comment-430829706

    These might all be examples of why some results are not tested or replicated. People aren’t interested in the answer or don’t want the answer. It gives the impression that if something provides an undesirable answer it best that no one know about it or that it be vigorously spun to support a particular agenda.

  • bscmath78

    For some of my “Inconvient Truths” including: 

    Inconvenient Truth #15: Many Vocal Professors Study and Learn Little About Student Studying and Learning

    Inconvenient Truth #13: College has never been about academic studying and learning for 90+% of students. See my comments starting here:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/12-inconvenient-truths-about-american-higher-education/31282#comment-413784773

    Some other inconvient information:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/worldwise/the-future-of-british-higher-education/29203#comment-458227785
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/worldwise/britain-threatens-its-economic-future-by-cutting-university-support/28897#comment-367658953

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/is-history-bunk/41263#comment-362465102
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/is-history-bunk/41263#comment-361952058
    http://chronicle.com/article/Millennials-Are-More/131175/#comment-466161828
    http://chronicle.com/article/Eric-Kandels-Visions/131095/#comment-463468438

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/supersizing-obamas-higher-education-agenda-part-1-of-8/31632#comment-444791785
    http://chronicle.com/article/The-RiseFall-of-the/131036/#comment-458034609

    Attempts to dispell myths about Virtue:
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/higher-educations-increasing-disdain-for-virtue/31505#comment-433095518

    Attempts to dispell myths about STEM:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/brainstorm/the-grad-school-decline/44759#comment-464356252

    http://chronicle.com/article/Work-Life-Balance-Is-Out-of/131111/#comment-462878291
    http://chronicle.com/article/Work-Life-Balance-Is-Out-of/131111/#comment-462905084

    http://chronicle.com/article/White-HouseUniversities/130699/#comment-433240406
    http://chronicle.com/blogs/percolator/re-engineering-engineering-education-to-retain-students/28745#comment-444960976

    GI Bill and education:

    http://chronicle.com/blogs/innovations/no-don%e2%80%99t-idolize-dropouts-but-dont-idolize-graduates-either/31795#comment-454701614

  • bscmath78
  • bscmath78
  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=829027695 Erin Rey McMichael

    As a social psychology grad student, I see nothing wrong with this. If someone is willing to replicate a study, I say kudos to them. As long as they replicate it exactly the way the original author intended the experiment to be run. The “sad” part that Dr. George Curious mentioned might be that they are targeting social psychology. Sure, that makes me a bit sad too. All research disciplines should be targeted. But alas, as tdr75 mentions, if your research is ethical and sound, why worry? 

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=829027695 Erin Rey McMichael

     ”it is joyous news that psychologists recognize that their papers are in large measure worthless.” OUCH. :(

  • undrgrndgirl

    i hope they go after the pharma journals next!

  • undrgrndgirl

    and sometimes researchers ARE deceitful.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_2MPNLYZORRKBGUHNUHBEJ64F7Q Mikio067

    Most psychology is a load…we all know that; and most psychologists only support “new” ideas in the subject that are politically correct, because, hey, many of them are affiliated with the local college or university, and they aren’t about to bite the hand the feeds them (you know…grant money and all that).  It’s all garbage.

  • BenGladden

    Bravo to Professor Nosek. I have always considered Psychology to be a pseudo science that is heavily influenced by political correctness and group think.

    Take, for instance, recent studies that indicate that anyone opposed to homosexuality are latent homosexuals themselves. Poppycock!

    “Homophobia” is a contrived word to ridicule and bully anyone opposed to normalization of homosexuality in forms such as gay marriage, because a phobia is an irrational fear and opposition to homosexuality is neither a fear nor irrational. Regardless of what recent biased studies have shown.

  • BenGladden

    The nature of Psychology make “exact” replication impossible. Psychology is not an exact science.

  • CrazyHungarian

    “Psychology is not an exact science.” therefore should have read: “Psychology is not a science but an area of study, like philosophy and anthropology”; that’s why it ends in -ology.

  • BenGladden

    Tell that to the many people, including many psychologists, who think or act like it is a science.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ron-Watson/100000138336774 Ron Watson

    Science is in deep trouble.  Too much politics and PC too little actual science being done.  It is good to see that some scientists have realized that they must begin to police themselves.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003668961870 Suibne Geilt

    Psychology, Ed. Psychology, Social Psychology, the entire profession and its contents are utter fictional nonsense. It’s a literature course and has had horrible impacts on all spheres of American life based on air. Get rid of the Psychologists and the the Political Scientists for the same reason.
    suibne

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003668961870 Suibne Geilt

    think of the effects of the scientific method on say……….writing a song……or cooking. We are dealing with the human PSYCHE here. The problem has never changed regarding the mind.
    These guys are one step removed from high priests of cult ritual. I am being nice.
    suibne

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_TW5ODE565VM7Q6PGMER7VAWR6M Sturdley

    Gee.  Next, they’ll be suggesting “reproducibility studies” in climate science…  Where will it end?

  • johndburger

    This is not unique to psychology, most of the “hard” sciences have the same problem.  The article notes that only 6 of 53 landmark cancer studies could be replicated in a recent effort.  This is a major problem with science in general.

  • johndburger

    This would be great, just like world peace.  The “incentive system” in many fields includes patents, venture capital for startups, textbook authorship, etc.  Nobody gets any of that for negative results.

  • KevinRonaldLohse

    Where it ends atm – in the courts.