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So Long, ‘Community Colleges’?

September 29, 2011, 11:06 am

By Rob Jenkins

Several years ago, I began noticing that a number of two-year colleges around the country were dropping the word “community” from their name, the most notable perhaps being Miami-Dade. (My own institution was once known as DeKalb Community College, although I didn’t work here at the time). That observation made me wonder if, for some, the term “community college” had taken on a negative connotation, just as “junior college” did back in the ’60s and ’70s.

Now I see that it may not be just the terminology that has fallen out of fashion, but the very fact of being a two-year college. In several states — including my own and neighboring Florida — two-year colleges are rushing to add bachelor’s degree programs and, thus, become, on a small scale at least, four-year institutions. Again, I have to place my own college squarely on that list.

In our case the decision to offer a couple of four-year degrees seems both prudent and reasonable — prudent because there were compelling political and budgetary reasons for us to make the move and reasonable because the two degrees we’re now offering, in sign-language interpreting and health informatics, are both natural extensions of things we were already doing well. Our sign-language program is one of the best in the country, while our health-sciences programs, like nursing and dental hygiene, have long been noted for their excellence. Moreover, both new degrees meet specific local needs, filling niches that weren’t previously being filled.

I’m sure other two-year colleges that have added four-year degrees can make similar arguments for their decisions. But I can’t help wondering if, in their push to become bigger and better, many of America’s finest community colleges may have lost some of their identity, some part of what made them unique.

As four-year institutions, will our colleges still be as agile and responsive to their local communities? Will we continue to keep our doors open for students who might not otherwise have access to higher education? Will we remain inexpensive yet high-quality alternatives to the regional universities? Or will we merely, over time, morph into regional universities?

In short, can you have a four-year community college? Or is this the beginning of the end of the community-college movement — and if so, what will become of all of those tens of thousands of community-college students?

I confess that I don’t know the answer to any of those questions. All I have at this point is a faint sense of unease. But I’m certainly interested to know what other community-college faculty members and administrators think about this trend, especially in parts of the country where it’s really picking up steam.

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  • barbarashell

    There is no easier way to put this – There are some well-meaning, but I believe misguided, presidents and trustees — victims of the American notion that bigger is always better. If a ”junior” can morph into a “community” and then again to a “college,” the next step has to be a four-year institution.  This move is ego driven and not by community needs.

  • 11200222

    My prediction is that yes, all of the community colleges will become 4-year colleges, and after a few years, will decide to add master’s degree programs also.
    And then, because there is a need for them, a new crop of 2-year colleges will spring up.

  • fullprof99

    My institution partners with a community college on several programs so that we can share resources and the students can get either two or four year degrees without either institution having to duplicate those resources. This is a model that more institutions should consider, I think.

  • rlmprez

    My two year college is an independent two year college.  Yes, we are one of a vanishing breed.  Nonetheless, we maintain our two year college status fiercely.  Because many of the students we serve are “place bound” we partner with senior colleges, both public and private, to bring bachelors degree programs to our campus.  I see no reason why public community colleges can’t partner with public senior colleges to offer bachelors or masters degree programs. To me that’s an effective use of public resources. 

  • robjenkins

    Funny you should say that. Georgia actually has two different types of two-year schools: those (like mine) that are part of the University System and are primarily transfer-oriented, and those that are part of a separate technical college system, offering a handful of transfer courses but mostly two-year vocational degrees and certificates.

    I was talking about this issue with a colleague of mine today, and when I asked, “What’s going to happen if all the USG two-year schools become four-year schools?” he replied, “The technical colleges will step up and become community colleges.” I think he’s absolutely right–at least until the tech schools decide that they too want to become four-year institutions.

    Rob

  • missoularedhead

    I think that part of the issue is, well, funding. The states fund 4 year (and up) schools better than they fund 2 year schools. And only a few community colleges have separate tracks for non-terminal programs. At my school, we spent a great deal of time defending the fact that “so many students don’t graduate”. Well, does the woman who takes a Spanish class because she’s going to Spain in the spring really want or need to graduate? No, but then she’s a black mark on someone’s record. We’ve solved that somewhat by having tracks (degree, transfer, certificate, personal interest), but at the same time, it seems a bit of an uphill battle to explain that someone taking a jewelry making class, a language class, or even my history class doesn’t necessarily want to graduate.

  • kgodwin

    Some of us do.  We’re a public two-year. We’ve done the same thing – we’ve got four-years offering the last two years of courses on our campus.  

    It’s just not always appropriate.  Nor is it always possible.  Most of the 4 year degrees on 2 year campuses in my neck of the woods are degrees no self-respecting university would dream of offering – they’re degrees in the career/technical fields, continuations of our Associate of applied science degrees.

  • robjenkins

    That’s partly what I meant when I referred to “compelling. . . budgetary reasons.”

    Rob

  • 11291104

    If you look at the Sept.25 article by Anthony Carnevale and Jeff Strohl, you’ll see one reason community colleges and their trustees sometimes seek baccalaureate degrees — status. The HE community, and those who write about it, consider community colleges (and their graduates) to be of lower status.  The article refers to community colleges as in the “lower half” of the bifurcated college system.  It also refers to competitive “tiers”, and to community colleges as in the “bottom tier.”  The language and reality of social stratification impacts society’s feelings about the value of institutions that offer the Associate’s degree.

  • http://who-will-kiss-the-pig.blogspot.com Richard Grayson

    This reminds me: have upper-division colleges completely disappeared by now?  I got an M.A. at CUNY’s Richmond College and soon afterward it merged with Staten Island Community College to become the four-year College of Staten Island.  In the early ’80s, when I taught at Broward Community College (now minus the “Community”), nearby Florida International University and Florida Atlantic University were upper-division colleges.  They soon began accepting first-year and sophomore students.

    I’m not sure I even know the original rationale behind upper-division colleges.  Are there any left?

  • yellow1

    The technical colleges in GA will follow that pattern and fill in where they are needed. What’s happening right now, Rob, because of the HOPE changes is that the technical colleges are already filling the Learning Support void. The USG schools will not take straight LS students (who aren’t on athletic scholarships), and many of the traditional community colleges, like yours, will only be offering 0099 level classes.

    The tricky part for all 2 years schools thinking of expansion is the idea of true open enrollment. If schools like GA Perimeter became 4 year colleges, then they cannot continue to accept all the students they typically did. There will always be a place for those programs that don’t fit into AA/AS/AAS or BA/BS models at 2 years schools, but I think that will mean technical colleges.

    Many states have expanded their technical schools to be “Community and Technical Colleges,” and I think GA will have that model if the push for 2 year schools to award BA/BS (even specialized) continues. As you know too, there are already 4-6 two year schools in GA already approved and working to graduate students in a handful of approved 4 years degrees. The flood gates are wide open in GA, in my mind, and I think our sort of unique funding model has spurred that along.

  • unusedusername

    I think that a 4-year community college: one with open access, rigorous courses leading to a BS or BA, and a faculty priority on teaching rather than research, would be a fantastic idea.  Such institutions would still definitely have a different culture than research universities do.

  • 11274135

    The argument that mission creep among community colleges will eventually create the need to reinvent community colleges has been around for a long time. Now, it seems reasonable to me that some well established community colleges can reasonably be bumped up to four year colleges if there is a demonstrable need, but they should not pretend that they are still community colleges just because they have only “a few” degrees, most of which are narrowly occupational. Rest assured, history, psychology, education, communication, etc. majors will emerge once the dam has burst. That kind of incrementalism does not serve statewide academic planning very well. In many cases, students and the state are better served by community college/university partnerships which keep the institutional missions more or less intact but offer students greater access, better transfer options, and lower total cost for the baccalaureate.

  • liveyourlife

    Before two year institutions go down the road of “bigger is better” and striving to become like other institutions they should think hard about if they can look their current students in the eye and tell them that a few years from now you wouldn’t be good enough for us.

  • dpmccain

    I would like to see community colleges revisit the model of the early 70′s.  I attended a local community college for a year, and was able to transfer to a university as a second quarter sophomore because I wasn’t saddled with having to take Gen-Ed classes at out of state tuition

    A friend of mine teaches for a community college, and her classes are overloaded by any standard.

    It’s much like many of the for-profit colleges that require the students go complete Gen-Ed classes are are not needed.  The students would be better served with certification classes.    I think I have mentioned this in another blog….but it continues to concern me.

  • robjenkins

    All true, yellow. Thanks for the clarity.

    As a community college lifer, I find these aspirations to four-year status slightly disturbing–as if being “just” a two-year school is no longer good enough. And yet I can’t honestly say I’m upset that we’re going to be offering bachelor’s degrees at GPC. It just seems to put us in a much better position politically–and funding is ALL about politics. Is this merely a short-term gain that will be offset by some long-term damage to our mission or identity? I don’t know. That’s why I’m asking the question of others who may have past experience dealing with this trend. I hope not.

    Rob

  • connie_matthew

    I know of at least one in the state of Alabama, Athens State University. They are in the same system as the community colleges, so they have the same funding structure and I believe are an undergraduate serving institution with no graduate courses.

  • lightningstrike

    On the flip side of this discussion, let us not forget the 4-year colleges/universities that are hell-bent on “community engagement,” a movement that amounts to duplication of many parts of the community college mission. Why do they do it? For market share. If there is a buck (grants, etc) to be made or great PR to be had, they (“they” meaning 2-year and/or 4-year) will expand services beyond their original mission. But on the community college front, I think there is one more issue, the white elephant. I’m sure that every CC college student/faculty/administrator has done this at least one time in their academic life: drop the word “community” in front of “college” (or just mumble it) when telling their peers where they work or go to school. Formally dropping the “community” in the official title of the college spares the CC college student/faculty/administrator from the guilt of dropping “community” in their informal interactions with their friends and peers.

  • falashas

    Great article! The Community Colleges of today have to expand their mission to become more relevant in the global economy.

  • djweatherford

    Well, you know, corporations are people, too, of course. 

    Think they can get their prescriptions for Viagra and birth control filled?

  • Unemployed_Northeastern

    So, in other countries attorneys can get decent non-legal jobs?  What a concept!

  • fullprof99

     We don’t care how the banks “feel” but may feel sympathy for the employees who wasted days of their time on either end of this transaction. (Actually, I am surprised that the originating bank didn’t refuse to provide the cash instead of a wire transfer or cashier’s check.) Kenjeev is clueless, though his last statement suggests that he may have learned something as a result.

  • greilly

    Employees who wasted days of their time?!?  It is their job.  They are paid to go to the bank every day and do whatever is needed to run the business… such as counting a customer’s money brought in for deposit.  What else would they be doing if not taking care of their customer— playing solitaire on the bank’s computers?

  • oklahomakid

    They are getting paid to work there. What is the difference if they are counting out money or doing something else? They should be happy to be employed–go a few months unemployed, and you’ll know what I mean.

    I think he should be praised for paying off his loans–why would anyone even think about griping about that? Those Canadians, eh?

  • lynnefox

    I’m sure this guy has a great future as a money launderer or mule for organized crime.  

  • cwinton

    I might be more sympathetic if it weren’t for the mess bankers visited on our financial system.  It’s just too bad their overpaid executives weren’t the ones losing time dealing with this prank.  It may be that most bankers didn’t do anything technically illegal, but then neither did Mr. Kenjeev.  I hate to think of all the time (not to mention money) so many have lost dealing with questionable banking practices.  They at least are deserving of our sympathy.

  • http://twitter.com/jokrausdu Joe Kraus

    But, what did he do with the extra 30 cents received?

  • Socratease2

    Why did it take 3 days for Royal Bank to process and count while it only took Scotiabank employees 2.5 hours to count the loot? I will open an account with Scotiabank after I am forced to leave the country and repatriate to the great white north (which may or may not be strong and free).

  • elsie

     Most likely, they’d be taking care of other customers. It’s not like the bank exists only for one customer at a time. I suspect that his prank slowed down service for many other customers at both banks.

  • http://twitter.com/jvward John Ward

    Those here who think that Mr. Kenjeev’s actions are funny because he targeted those nasty ol’ banks, ask yourselves if you would chuckle as much if he had pulled the same stunt while paying his tuition at your institution.  Would you be fine with some employee in the bursar’s office having to take time to count out the money (sounds like he must have paid in small, unbundled bills) and make sure he had paid in full?  If you think that it is different because institutions of higher education are held in demonstrably greater esteem than banks are these days, you are simply kidding yourself.
     
    And to be jealous of Mr. Kenjeev because he actually made sure that his advanced degree would lead to a job which compensated him well enough so that he could afford to pay back the loans, well, that kind of attitude lies at the heart of the higher education crisis.

  • renellin

    Having worked in Las Vegas, I am inimately knowledgeable about the task. It used to take a half hour to count $30,000 in and out each day. Lots of people think of money as a symbolic gesture, i.e. pouring money all over a bed and jumping around on it.

    As a bank, I wonder why the people that took 3 days (jeepers, how many breaks were in there? Or did they get to 28,564, and mess up and have to restart like 19 times?) didn’t ask what he planned to do with it (he wouldn’t have to tell them, but it would have helped) and they could have enclosed it in plastic and sealed it. Maybe not. But hey, a bank is a bank. Tons of transactions are very short but are costed at more. It’s kind of like a buffet.

  • renellin

    I can’t help but wonder if the reason so many former bankers work in government (especially goldman sachs) is because the government people didn’t understand how it all works and figured they were experts. Instead they seem to have worked the system to benefit themselves in an industry that is difficult to understand (because the paid off congress and the lobbying banks made it this way) so they are trusted with the cookie jar.

  • renellin

    sorry greilly, I am more answering elsie than you, because i agreed with you. I was bothered when the bank started telling people they wouldn’t feed your $200 in change into their change machine and give you a total. Instead, they said “we’ll get back to you.” It is incumbent on banks to provide for the services of their customers in the same way it is incumbent upon me to serve my customers who show up 1 minute before closing time. Be glad you have a job.

    The first bank that took 3 days should be closed.

  • 1adam12

    Many things come to mind:
    1. Why would it take more than 10 minutes for any bank employee to handle this transaction?  Did he do the whole transaction in 1 CAD units (What, loonies)?  I have exchanged 15,000 USD at the airport dozens of times and the actual transaction takes <5 minutes.  You are in line much, much longer than the actual time to finish the cash counting.  Why the heck are Canadian Banks so darn poorly managed?

    2. Why is it anyone's business how Mr. Kenjeev's pays his loan back.  The whole thing seems like a foolish show-off thing to do, but why does anyone care if he pays in cash?  Too many people spend too much time worrying about how much money other people have instead of worrying about how they need to live their own lives.

    Reed.

  • greilly

    But he wouldn’t have paid in small unbundled bills… the first bank would have given him bundles of new (or relatively new) bills in large denominations.  He then went down the street with those bundles and gave them to another bank.  

  • lucero

    This is to Elsie: Have you been in a bank lately? Maybe it is different in Canada, but every time I go to my bank it is empty! I don’t know why they even bother to keep any tellers or info people in there. And it is a major international bank. I actually started going there and taking my money out from the teller (instead of the ATM) and buying quarters just to give these people some work to do! Hardly anybody goes to the tellers anymore. They just use the ATM–at least in my city.

  • 11182967

    John Ward:  Our cashier says that occasionally students do pay our (admittedly modest) tuition in cash (in our State some people still bank in mattresses), and our policy is to cheerfully accept payment in whatever legal form it arrives.  She said she’d be thrilled to have the opportunity to count $300K in cash as long as it was institutional income.

  • evansolomon

    I suspect that Mr. Kenjeev has always been and will always be the sort of person who would rather prove some point than accomplish a simple task.. People like that are a pain in the butt. 

  • jorieallen

    Duh…it’s his money and their job. Good for him for paying his debt.

  • retiringsoon

    Here is the point: HE PAID OFF HIS LOAN, and, for whatever reason, he chose an unconventional payment method. (That being said, I do have compassion for those who owe huge amounts for relatively worthless education and are struggling to pay their own loans. There is no easy fix for bad choices, but the interest rate on education loans should remain very low.)

  • 11182967

    And I don’t see anything in the article to indicate that employees at either bank complained, so why should we pontificate about it (other than that’s one of the things we academics are really good at)?  My experience is that creditors care more about the fact of payment than the form.  I once paid a speeding ticket by addressing the check to the “Speed Trap Division” of a police department in a small town in Ohio (where else!?).  It was quickly cashed. 

  • http://www.facebook.com/colette.shaw1 Colette Shaw

    Cash? What’s that? Do they even make that stuff anymore?

  • olmsted

    And the type who can earn enough cash to pay back $100k in 3yrs, Evan.  ”People like that” would keep the trillion dollar student loan debt a lot lower.

  • RJR8222

    “oblivious law grad”  “irritating everyone”  “reason to resent” 

    Good grief and get a grip. Kenjeev carried out a responsible act (paying off his loan) and added a bit a performance art to the mix. This should be an amusing little story, not cause for drama and angst.

    Here’s the bottom line: when I want to withdraw cash from my account, I expect the bank to give it to me and when I want to pay off a debt using cash (which is, by the way legal tender, meaning that it MUST be accepted as payment for all debts, public or private) I expect that the cash be accepted. 

  • citizenship

    The linked article suggests the first bank may not have had enough cash reserves on hand to meet normal daily needs and immediatley pay out $114,000 to Kenjeev.  So I would assume that a request had to go to the closest rerve bank (first day), the reserve bank had to process and count the funds (second day) and then transport it to the first bank for transfer, receipt and release to Kanjeev (third day).  There would have been at least three times the money would have been counted before Kanjeev took it to the second bank for the final payment.

  • RJR8222

    And I suspect that evansolomon has always been and will always be the sort of person who would rather jump to conclusions and criticize others than take the time to understand what is really going on. People like that are a pain in the butt.

  • Socratease2

    Thanks, that makes sense now that you mention it. Scotiabank merely needed to count.

  • http://twitter.com/MzYummyDread Ms Eryka

    lol… paying back the people who try to keep you in debt is awesome

  • dank48

    I’m not feeling sympathetic to banks or bankers right now, so three cheers from here for Mr. Kenjeev. I made a stupid mistake that resulted in my checking account being four figures south of where I thought it was; having made the mistake, I wrote checks to pay bills and didn’t realize I’d screwed up until the first “Your account needs urgent attention” letter. It got it, from me, but getting anyone at the bank to help correct the error turned out to be a fool’s errand, perfect for me.

    The bottom line is that my bank’s “overdraft protection” kicked in, except when it didn’t. Where it did, it charged a fee of about twenty percent of the amount, in effect a short-term loan, since it made the amounts good when the next paycheck arrived. Of course the bank people said I shouldn’t look at it as interest, “just” a fee. I don’t care what they call it: it was interest charged for a short-term loan, over about a week on average. The annual percentage rate for that “service” comes to over one thousand percent. At least they didn’t threaten to break my legs.

  • 609zr

    Kudos Adam:  This is a story about lazy, unproductive tellers who complain that they actually have to work.  But, the most important part of the story is the unending LIES. 

    PROPER PROCEDURE:   The teller puts the cash in the cash counter and its done in less than 10 minutes according to Adam.  I say it is done in less than 5 minutes. 

    Even drug lords in South American have cash counting and bundling machines.  I will not be banking in Canada if it is true that they are so primitive that people actually count money by hand.  Do they also  slip a couple hundred under the table so no one notices?

    KUDOS Alex Kenjeev:  While everyone is talking about your technique, NO ONE is giving you credit for being one of the VERY VERY FEW financially responsible students who actually pays off their student loans.

  • katisumas

    Response to Renellin, these banks cannot be closed.  They are both controlled by regulations from the Canadian govt.  Result:  NO BAILOUT NEEDED! 

    Canada has not experienced the Great Recession in which we in the US are still mired (just ask anyone looking for a job  –they cant find a job and the govt hands are tied by people who can’t understand that every $ the govt pays for stimulus the same amount or more in taxes by the newly employed comes in). 

     Same for banks in Europe.  They too needed and need bailout and the lack of regulations might mean a double deep recession for all of us, or perhaps even Great Depression II…..

    Incidentally, in the US, they don’t let you take all that cash out of your bank without getting checked out by the police, FBI, etc…  I believe if you try to take out more than $20,000 of your own money you’re in trouble.  I take Canadian regulations any day!

  • katisumas

    This happened in Canada. not the US.  Last I heard Canada is an independant country!

    Canadian banks did not bring a mess on the Canadian financial system.  Unlike our banks that demanded and expected to be bailed out after squandering the wealth of the middle class and putting it in the pocket of billionaires, Canadian banks are regulated.  They cannot destroy their country’s economy. 

    Incidentally, when a tiny financial elite of a country suddenly, in the space of a decade (basically the Bush Jr. years) suddenly find intself immensely more wealthy than they were previously, you know this wealth could only have been syphoned out of the middle class.  I mean it’s obvious that they couldn’t have syphoned those billions from the poor who even when working 3 jobs still have trouble keeping a roof over their family and feeding their children properly….

  • katisumas

    The trillion dollar student debt applies to the US not to Canada.

  • katisumas

    Canada has strict immigration laws to keep people south of their borders from flooding their country just because it has a higher standard of living.  Pretty soon, you’ll have Canadian politicians advocating building a giant electrified fence around their country…. (and perhaps even a moat with crocodiles?). 

    But would they build that fence with “illegal” workers as we are happily doing in the US?  I taught a few years in Canada and I can vouch that as a whole Canadians seem smarter than Americans…..

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