Jason Riley is a great writer, and both he and his wife Naomi (who is writing a book on tenure) have interesting and often provocative things to say, such as in Jason’s great recent book on American immigration. Now Jason has stirred things up a bit with his Wall Street Journal piece that argues that historically black colleges and universities (hereafter, HBCU’s) are serving black students very poorly, and have become something of an expensive, ineffective anachronism. This has stirred up some anger, and Michael Sorrell, writing with Marybeth Gasman, has used this blog series to argue that Riley is misinformed, inaccurate, etc., etc. Sorrell, by the way, is president of an extremely small black college in Dallas that once achieved something very difficult to accomplish in higher education: it managed to almost lose its accreditation.
Ms. Gasman and Mr. Sorrell say the evidence shows Jason Riley is wrong. I disagree, but even before we get to the evidence, I find the idea of race-based institutions of higher education very disturbing in this day and age. It is interesting that most schools use the cry for “diversity” to justify their racially preferential policies that are designed to reduce racial homogeneity in the student body, arguing there are social if not educational benefits to having more racially mixed student bodies. Yet at the same time we are subsidizing and promoting institutions that celebrate homogeneity–arguing that black self-esteem is enhanced when students are educated in largely segregated schools with other blacks (think of the hue and cry if someone tried to establish an institution designed explicitly to serve white persons or even Asians.) In a nation where there is a black president elected largely with white votes, where blacks are found with increasing frequency as Secretary of State, in Congress, as leading entertainers and sports figures, and as CEO’s of prestigious companies like American Express, do we really need to have HBCU’s? Indeed, isn’t this short of a embarrassment to our nation that prides itself on equality of opportunity and where success historically has been largely based on meritorious achievement and, as Martin Luther King so memorably said, on “the content of your character”?
But enough opinion. How good are the HBCU’s? One way to evaluate this is to look at rankings. I suspect the Harvard, Yale and Princeton of the HBCU’s are Howard, Spelman, and Morehouse. In the US News & World Report rankings, the top-ranked liberal arts college, Spelman is ranked 59th, which is pretty good but hardly one of the best. Howard, the top HBCU research university, does not crack the top 100 in that list. Not one school is considered a very fine school of the highest distinction. In the Forbes rankings (full disclosure: I am in charge of compiling them), there are some 610 schools ranked, and not one the HBCU’s makes the top half of that list. The best of the HBCU’s are considered to be fairly decent but hardly superb institutions. Taken collectively, the 95 or so four year domestic HBCU’s have typical six year graduate rates around one-third, compared with well over 50 percent for the general population of schools. For every student entering one of these schools full time who successfully graduates (albeit in as much as six years), two others drop out. Lists of the lowest graduation rate schools in the country have disproportionately high representation from the HBCU’s.
Proponents of HBCU’s would say the low indicators of performance of those schools arises from the fact that students, on average, have lower incomes and poor academic backgrounds than non-HBCU schools–which is true. Some limited empirical analysis that we have done at the Center for College Affordability and Productivity suggests that this may explain much, but not all, of the relatively poor graduation rates. Even if it explains all of the differential rates, however, it only means that HBCU’s are no better nor worse than other schools, hardly a justification for continuation of race-centered institutions.
Another issue relates to the amount of subsidies. Howard gets about $235-million from the federal government annually, or roughly $22,225 per student. Most traditional state universities are lucky to get per student subsidies of half that amount, and one-quarter is closer to typical. Would the students be better off if we gave them $22,225 vouchers to attend traditional universities ranked higher than Howard in the rankings? I suspect so. It is time to rethink the public funding of this anachronism from the past.
I am not proposing simply abolishing these institutions. I simply would suggest that they should not receive special funding because of some race-based status, and that they should accordingly be encouraged to enroll more non-black students. Already some HBCU’s, notably two in West Virginia, are in fact no longer predominantly black. Just as all-male bastions like Harvard and Yale started accepting women quite successfully 40 years ago, so I suspect the HBCU’s would benefit from expanding their client base.
34 Responses to Why Do We Have HBCU’s?
krtaylor - October 15, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Wow… Maybe you should have attended an HBCU, because your understanding of History is completely distorted. First, let’s all acknowledge the fact that “HBCU,” stands for HISTORICALLY Black Colleges and Universities, again HISTORICALLY. These institutions are open for any student that wants to attend and are accepted. So the notion that “HBCU’s,” “explicitly…serves” any particular demographic is completely untrue. Secondly, HBCU’s have been under-ranked for years due to lack of funding, resources, and discriminatory practices. Plus, what have the rankings ever really proved…Now lets get to the meat.
Most African Americans that do very well, achieve high marks, and improve our country’s economy and culture are products of HBCU’s. I am sure you know that the notorious MLK, which you referred to, was a product of Morehouse College. HBCU’s have been cultural and economic beckons of hope for African Americans that come from all walks of life. Matter of fact, it’s a fact that HBCU’s typically serve students that would otherwise would not be served. So, those low graduation rates which you refer to, are due to numerous factors like- poor students, TINY scholarships funds, and honestly- some culturally and academically unprepared students. HBCU’s give many students a chance that would otherwise would have no hope, and educates and enlightens many of students that our country’s school systems have failed. The little funding that HBCU’s receive, compared to the funds that many majority institutions receive is merely America’s way of investing into self. Ultimately, those that attend HBCU’S are offered a unique education, cultural experience, and sense of identity that allows them to socially mobilize and give back to society. Imagine America without HBCU’s.
I challenge you, Mr. Richard Vedder, to come to Morehouse College and meet some of my brothers and I. We can discuss this topic further and you can hear the opinions of those that actually attend an HBCU. I guarantee you that your opinion would change, if not, you would at least be more informed on this topic.
God Bless HBCU’s and God Bless America!
PS- I look forward to hearing from you…
goxewu - October 16, 2010 at 9:38 am
An odd (but not unpredictable) and poignant comment from krtaylor. On the one hand, HBCU’s are only historically black and are open to any student who wants to attend. On the other hand, under krtaylor’s vagueness about “those who attend” HBCUs is the tacit admission that they still exist for and a primarily geared to African-Americans. On the one hand, a complaint that HBCUs are “under-ranked”; on the other hand an admission that they’re under-funded, something that rather reasonably causes their relatively low ranking. On the one hand, a boast that “most African-Americans that do very well, achieve high marks, and improve our country’s economy and culture are products of HBCU’s.” On the other hand, no acknowledgement that, for a while now, African-Americans have attended in droves our nation’s finest HWCU and done rather well afterward. (The number of African-American students at HBCUs is somewhere between a fifth and a quarter of the total number of African-American college students.)
Mr. Vedder doesn’t advocate abolishing HBCUs; he merely suggests that they start to be considered simply colleges and universities, period, and that they “expand their client base.” While one can empathize with krtaylor’s pride and sentiment concerning Morehouse and other HBCUs, it’s clear that HBCUs are, as de facto BCUs (“Historically” is merely a hedge against having to acknowledge now-voluntary segregation), outmoded. When Jackson State is seen as no different in desired student body from Troy State University, it’ll be a better day.
krtaylor - October 16, 2010 at 1:18 pm
Again…wow, I am predictable now. You basically agreed with everything I said. However, I never stated that whites or other students should not attend HBCU’s, I just don’t believe that HBCU’s missions should be abolished. Regardless if we like it or not, African Americans suffer today because of everything that happened yesterday. What I want to convey is that HBCU’s attempt to solve and relieve many of the ills that America is trying to move beyond. Yes, African Americans at MWI institutions do well, but like I said, HBCU graduates typically do better. Also, lets weigh the intangibles here. Do you know what’s it like to attend a majority white institution as a black man. To realize that most of the curriculum leaves you out, and to graduate and still have no sense of you are and where you came from. Obviously, this is not everyone’s story, but quite a few. I have meet African American students from MWI that didn’t even know who Phyllis Wheatley was, but could tell you and I everything about Wordsworth. This is a problem, and HBCU’s attempt to fix this. This conversations lead me to ask- (HONESTLY) How diverse are MWI? O…yea and don’t count the student athletics.
ksledge - October 18, 2010 at 7:41 am
This is a terribly researched article. It is not a bad idea to ask what HBCUs do to benefit black students (above and beyond majority-white colleges.) But looking to rankings does not give you the answer. The truth is that until majority-white colleges can provide better support to black students from certain backgrounds, HBCUs provide immense value. Also, if you read up on books such as “Why Are All The Black Kids Sitting Together in the Cafeteria?” you might get an idea of why pockets of homogeneity of minorities are beneficial even as we hope for more diversity overall.
landrumkelly - October 18, 2010 at 8:55 am
“I find the idea of race-based institutions of higher education very disturbing in this day and age.”
I am not aware of any HBCU that excludes persons of other backgrounds in its admissions policies. There are no “preferential” admissions standards that favor persons of color. You are not in command of the facts.
Livingstone College, where I teach, certainly does open its doors to all, and we do have members of other groups who apply and are accepted.
“I simply would suggest that they should not receive special funding because of some race-based status, and that they should accordingly be encouraged to enroll more non-black students.”
They receive no special need-based funding. Many African-American students simply do, on the average, need more financial assistance to be able to attend college. This would be the case–and the tab would be even higher–if they attended other universities. Other students are and will continue to be most welcome in these days of financial stress–as they were during better economic times.
Your real message, however, seems to be this: “Assimilate or die.”
That is offensive in the extreme.
Landrum Kelly, Jr., Ph.D.
Associate Professor and Chair
Department of Political Science
Livingstone College
Salisbury, North Carolina
newpseudo - October 18, 2010 at 8:58 am
Dr. Vedder, are there any private PWIs that didn’t make the top half of the Forbes list that you compiled? Are you suggesting that they be denied any public funds because they aren’t in the top half of the list? Do any of them have small numbers of Black students? Are you suggesting that they be denied federal funds because their Black student population is too small?
You seem to have a misconception about HBCUs. They are open to everyone and I know for a fact that several of them actively recruit students from other ethnic groups. Alabama State University at one time was offering full scholarships to students just for being White. They even had a lower GPA scholarship requirement, for White students only. (They later raised it to the higher requirement that applied to Black students.) Morehouse recently had a White valedictorian, who although accepted at an Ivy League institution, chose Morehouse. HBCUs, the federal government, and citizens should not and cannot force White and other ethnic groups to attend HBCUs, if they don’t want to attend.
Howard University is not a private institution and it is not located in a state that has the responsibility of giving it funds. The U.S. Congress gave Howard its charter in 1867. Now I really don’t know how many other institutions the U.S. Congress gave a charter to and it would be interesting to know if Congress financially abandoned any of those other institutions. If they didn’t abandon the others, why are you suggesting that Howard be abandoned? Is the fact that it is predominantly Black the only reason?
Dr. Vedder, I challenge you to answer my questions.
newpseudo - October 18, 2010 at 9:44 am
Correction, Howard is private, but I believe it has received support from the federal government, ever since the U.S. Congress gave Howard its charter. Some sources classify Howard as “private/federal.”
southbronx962 - October 18, 2010 at 9:54 am
Criticizing HBCUs performance, vis à vis Historically White Institutions (HWIs), is constructive only if their output is to be constant or static model. This is not the plan.
All blogs to date, challenging HBCU’s relevance have omitted or ingnored:
The New Narrative for HBCUs
The President’s 2020 Degree Attainment Goal
The two are interrelated. If the nation is to close the troubling degree gap, a shortage of 22 million degrees if we stay on the current production trend-line by 2025, we need better performing institutions, not fewer. The fact is that there are 1.2 million dropouts according to organizations like The Education Trust. 90 percent are African American and Latino students who need to enter institutions with faculty and administrators that have a keen insight into their world as first-generation, low-income college students of color. The mentoring edge Minority-Serving Institutions (MSIs) like HBCU have is a valuable attribute. What other institutions are better equipped to absorbing hundreds of thousand of underserved students of color in the pipeline? The challenge before us requires an “all-hands-on-deck” approach.
HBCUs have done and will continue to do the heavy-lifting in providing higher education this segment of our population, albeit with a new business model. We all know that academic attainment has a functional relationship with income. For America to increase its competitiveness and income in our flatter world, we must maximize the capacity of the infrastructure available and recognize that institutional diversity is a useful thing.
Perhaps it would be more direct for Messrs. Riley and Vedder to challenge President Obama’s 2020 initiative and the supportive New Narrative for HBCUs first, rather than its instruments. HBCUs’ performance and role will not be as it was in the last four decades. They are evolving into a crucial source of investment in innovation (N.B. http://www.iercef.org/OurHBCUInitiative.asp , the Study Abroad/Global Engagement Consortium) and outreach. HBCUs are dynamic. Yet, when has it ever been easy to critique Presidential initiatives or dynamic models?
southbronx962 - October 18, 2010 at 10:05 am
Criticizing HBCUs performance, vis à vis Historically White Institutions (HWIs), is constructive only if their output is to be constant or static model. This is not the plan.
All blogs to date, challenging HBCU’s relevance have omitted or ingnored:
The New Narrative for HBCUs
The President’s 2020 Degree Attainment Goal
The two are interrelated. If the nation is to close the troubling degree gap, a shortage of 22 million degrees if we stay on the current production trend-line by 2025, we need better performing institutions, not fewer. The fact is that there are 1.2 million dropouts according to organizations like The Education Trust. 90 percent are African American and Latino students who need to enter institutions with faculty and administrators that have a keen insight into their world as first-generation, low-income college students of color. The mentoring edge Minority-Serving Institutions (MSIs) like HBCU have is a valuable attribute. What other institutions are better equipped to absorbing hundreds of thousand of underserved students of color in the pipeline? The challenge before us requires an “all-hands-on-deck” approach.
HBCUs have done and will continue to do the heavy-lifting in providing higher education this segment of our population, albeit with a new business model. We all know that academic attainment has a functional relationship with income. For America to increase its competitiveness and income in our flatter world, we must maximize the capacity of the infrastructure available and recognize that institutional diversity is a useful thing.
Perhaps it would be more direct for Messrs. Riley and Vedder to challenge President Obama’s 2020 initiative and the supportive New Narrative for HBCUs first, rather than its instruments. HBCUs’ performance and role will not be as it was in the last four decades. They are evolving into a crucial source of investment in innovation (N.B. http://www.iercef.org the Study Abroad/Global Engagement Consortium) and outreach. HBCUs are dynamic. Yet, when has it ever been easy to critique Presidential initiatives or dynamic models?
ellis - October 18, 2010 at 10:54 am
Vedder’s rode roughshod over anything that would put this complex issue into any semblance of context—and he’s stumbled woefully along the way. His arguments and specious comparisons are bogus and not worth seriously entertaining, in my humble opinion. I’ve been on both HBCU and “mainstream” top 20 campuses. There’s still a crying need for HBCUs. And they deserve support.
fizmath - October 18, 2010 at 11:30 am
We have them because the students want them. The students at the HBCU’s, like everyone else in the entire world, feel more comfortable around those with the same culture.
quinnite08 - October 18, 2010 at 12:08 pm
As a proud alum of Paul Quinn College I take great offense of your egotistical and light remarks about one of the America’s great institutions and the oldest black university in Texas.
As the previous comments scolded, lack of funding and resources makes your blog a complete waste of space and time to compare HBCUs to perdominantly white institutions (PWI).
Compared to other larger HBCUs and PWIs, you’d find (if you did more research) that PQC has not only maintained its accreditation, but has also widened its research and community networth faster than any other institution in the state of Texas. Even the White House praised President Sorrell’s quick turnaround and vast achievements in the past three years during a recent tour of my alma mater.
If you look closely, you’ll see the best story ever read in America.
wturnertsu - October 18, 2010 at 12:11 pm
Here we go: “The President is Black. We no longer need special programs, affirmative-action or schools for Black people.” Soon, there will be a chorus of others, declaring louder and louder, that the elction of one individual of color to the highest office in the land is justification enough to discontinue affirmative action! HBCU’s!
For some, it might come as a great surprise; not so for the conscious among us. In the Michigan case, Justice O’Connor telegraphed what was coming, in writing: “…in 20 years, there should no longer be a need for affirmative action.” Does the election or appointment of a colored President give greater credence to her claim and garner support for that time-frame, despite the actual conditions on the grounds (to borrow a popular military phrase), in 20 years? Now that the President has fulfilled that need (proving that we’re now a color-blind society) will it be necessary to electr him to second term, if economic and military matters are, again, reasonably manageable?
Students must be challenged to think outside of the box. They can be challenged at traditional colleges and universities, as well as HBCU’s. But, when a popular president didn’t carry a single state in a very large and influential region of the nation and he, at least, appears to be a Black American, how frequently and in-depth, are Black students going to be challenged and feel secure enough to articulate their feelings and positions, in PWI’s, in that particular region of the country? Perhaps, the rankings of HBCU’s are such because, despite the demographic of the student bodies, at such institutions, the control, real control, still rests with others. Those who appear to be in control are prone to govern, teach and/or administer lessons and programs in such a way, so as to not upset overseers. Oversers, who, by and large, are not graduates of HBCU’s and do not send their children to them.
There is a great need for really independent HBCU’s with administrators, faculties and staff who are competent, with back-bone, vision and integrity. There is a reason why they rank so poorly, today. Nepotism, cronyism, petty-politics, simple incompetence and limited vision cannot produce superior students, regardless of the students’ color or race. Unfortunately, too many of the HBCU’s are over-burden with just the latter types. Leaders of the institutions are insecure and feel threaten by anyone different or who thinks outside the box. Thinking outside the box, and encouraging students to do likewise, is the only way to change the status quo.
America is a nation where race still very much matters. When that is no longer the case, Black students must have institutons that prepare them deal with that sad reality. The problem is that such institutions, as they presently exist, are doing a poorer and poorer job preparing their students to think independently, than the institutions did in former years. Then, again, perhaps the institutions are just reflection of the larger society of blacks, who, on closer inspection, have copped-out; many have bought into Janet’s philosophy of “What have you done for me lately” or Sir Charles: “I’m nobody’s children role-model.” Or Tiger’s: “a beautiful woman is….” Well, you know about Tiger and his issues.
HBCU’s will surpass or equal PWI’s when incompetent colored and whites with sinister agendas are removed from them as administrators and faculties. Not a second sooner, will they experience any significant improvement in ranking. They will rise rapidly, when the criteria currently being used to define good professors and bad professors are amended to suit the needs of the particular students in attendance at HBCU’s and recruitment committees are liberated enough to hire such professors. Colleges and university serve to perpetuate the status quo; is America ready to embrace African Americans in all spheres of society as equals, rather than as subordinates? Will faculties at PWI’s accept a new reality and treat young African Americans justly and not concentrate on squashing their innate curosity and dampen their confidence? If so, Black students will perform as outstandingly in the classrooms, as they do on the grid-irons, at such PWI’s as The University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa and as O.J. did at USC.
wturnertsu - October 18, 2010 at 12:37 pm
What we don’t need are HBCU’s (or PWI’S, for that matter) that fail miserably at encouraging students to think independently and to strive to excel. We don’t need HBCU’s that penalize students who dare to march to the beat of a different drummer, while still mastering the subjects being taught.
With all the celebrities, in sports and other entertainments, HBCU’s and PWI’s have produced, of color, if the institutions were staffed by competent administrators and faculties, who educated folks, then HBCU’s would be more richly endowed and such celebs would have the common-sense to know that their own worlds will be even richer, if universities and colleges, were supported. It doesn’t take a rocket-scientist to figure-out that to whom much is given, much is expected and that when much is given, even more is received, in the final analysis.
HBCU’s aren’t getting nearly the amount of support that they need and deserve from people of color and decent people of goodwill, given the number of Black folks, who, according to what we see on t.v. and read about in Jet, have “made it!” As long as HBCU’s have been around, how is it that they have done so poorly in educating and inspiring their alumni to observe a basic reality that is well-known to persons with higher-learnings: preservation of self is not limited to providing just for self.
clnewby - October 18, 2010 at 2:49 pm
Apparently Richard Vedder forgot that all universities began with a clear identity that reflected the culture of the organizers. While the original purpose of HBCUs was to provide higher educational opportunities to African Americans, it was also about preserving and promoting the African American experience. Embedded in that mission was the emphasis on promoting (in a positive way) the history and culture of African Americans, just as we have seen majority institutions do in their fraternal traditions, sporting events, and school crests or insignias. Vedder suggests that HBCUs are no longer needed because we are an integrated society.
Perhaps I am missing something, but isn’t integration multi-directional? Shouldn’t integration come from all sectors of society, not just from those designated as minorities entering into majority white institutions? Vedder also neglects to mention how the faculty is often more diverse at HBCUs than at most majority institutions. Diversity is a crucial element in the education of everyone because it provides perspective and differing points of view; all foundations for substantive intellectual discourse.
22097984 - October 18, 2010 at 3:31 pm
newspeudo and others.
There ARE other federally chartered universities. The most obvious (other than the military acs.) is Gallaudet University for the Deaf (historially the blind as well). And yes, people are calling for the end of subsidies to it and the military acads. as well.
IMHO The real issue is that tax money should not be going to support universities of any kind. Private, public, for profit, not-for-profit…..
The statement: “Diversity is a crucial element in the education of everyone because it provides perspective and differing points of view; all foundations for substantive intellectual discourse.” made in many forms above is an opinion and not one that can be shown either way.
Personally, I think highly of HBCU are wonderful just as religiously affiliated schools are wonderful and large private univerisities are wonderful. Just don’t think my tax money should be subsidizing these organizations in any manner.
Peace
newpseudo - October 18, 2010 at 3:52 pm
To 22097984, Please read carefully. I didn’t say that there were no other federally chartered institutions. I said I didn’t know how many others existed. You didn’t answer my question, because you can’t. I asked Dr. Vedder why was he calling on Congress to abandon Howard, if Congress hadn’t abandoned the other institutions. You can’t speak for him.
rambo - October 18, 2010 at 8:16 pm
80% of HBCU’s students are black females. 70% of all black students from all colleges/universities are black females.
softshellcrab - October 18, 2010 at 11:33 pm
Get rid of HBCU’s. Drop all funding of them. What a waste of money. Lousy schools academically. Basically a product of racism, and they are just perpetuating racism.
If they are open to all students, including whites, etc. that’s all the MORE reason to get rid of them. So what’s the point to keeping them? Just another state supported school but in basically every case a really crumby one, with no academic standards.
kirvine02 - October 18, 2010 at 11:34 pm
“…I find the idea of race-based institutions of higher education very disturbing in this day and age.” I find the idea that race-based institutions of higher learning are still needed to be extremely disturbing. Dr. Vedder overlooks the huge impact that HBCUs have on the ability to obtain a degree at any level. Someone else already stated the statistics for undergraduate degrees, graduate education is also a factor in determining the need for HBCUs. I believe that a majority of African American doctors still graduate from HBCU medical schools, for example.
However, I’m more disturbed by graduation rates of HBCUs being compared to those of all colleges and universities. A better comparison would be of the same population groups in PWIs and HBCUs, which should extend beyond race and compare similar economic backgrounds and other factors (after all, several HBCUs are also MWIs now). I’m disappointed that someone would irresponsibly publish these statements without conducting thorough research, especially when an apples-to-apples comparison may show that HBCUs do a better job with a particular socio-economic class, which may justify taking funding from mainstream schools and funneling it to ones that do a better job with it.
fewgardens - October 19, 2010 at 11:21 am
I think the last poster who writes, “However, I’m more disturbed by graduation rates of HBCUs being compared to those of all colleges and universities. A better comparison would be of the same population groups in PWIs and HBCUs..” would yield far more significant results…All too often, these kinds of article yield to simplistic and flat analyses by supporters of HBCUs and detractors alike. It simply is unwise to have a premise that somehow African Americans are doing better at PWI’s than at HBCU’s simply because the PWI’s have greater resources. Why don’t we simply look at how African American students are doing in higher education across the board and see what the numbers look like? I assure you that HBCUs will be viewed much more favorably in this light. I also recommend that we look at what is quickly becoming the one of the most important issues in higher education: African American males in higher education. I would hedge my bets that HBCUs are producing more graduates in this group than at PWI’s. If this is the case–along with statistics about how African Americans are thriving or not thriving as a collective in higher education–the question the author should be raising is why with all of their resources (particularly state schools who are tax supported) not doing a better job with graduating African American students, particularly males? (And let’s not begin to address African American males who play athletes there.) Again, it is far too easy to pick on those institutions that are bereft of resources. And the practice of selecting African Americans to do this is well documented. Perhaps you should turn your “sharp, keen focus” upon PWI’s as well and hold them equally accountable for their work with African American students.
wturnertsu - October 19, 2010 at 11:46 am
One day, some day, HBCU’s will no longer be needed, is the prayer of all people of goodwill. The conscious among us knows that that day is not today!
A quick history lesson:
Once upon a time, My People Picked Cotton;
And, They made Money.
Today, My People Make Money;
Now, They Pick Them!
Will African American students learn exactly what that means at any PWI, other than the exceptional ones? Although it is not guranteed, chances are he or she can learn what it means at a HBCU. Certainly, the environment is more conducive at HBCU’s than PWI’s to argue and debate it.
Dr. King and others protested and marched for integration. The die-hard racists, throughout the south and other regions of the nation, resisted with all their might, until the Courts ordered that they resist no more. Although their attitudes remained unchanged, whites, with little or no input from blacks, closed or down-graded Black schools and terminated good black teachers, who actually taught, despite not being “certified.” Vulnerable and un-informed black kids were thrusted into classroom with racists teachers, counsellors and administrators. The strongest and most promising black kids were often-time given the lowest grades; more compliant, selfish and submissive blacks were praised and awarded the highest grades. After years of integration, blacks kids with spunk are still being mis-labelled as trouble-makers, disruptive, anti-sociable and aggressive. They are not receiving the grades that would ensure their acceptance at “other colleges and universities.”
HBCU’s perform the necessary function of de-programming and re-building the vital essence of young blacks that they must have in order to navigate an increasingly more competitive world. PWI’s milk as much federal funds as they can for each black student and then, when funding sources are about exhausted for such students, release them without either a degree or any substantial improvement in their ability to engage in independent and critical thinking.
HBCU’s do a much better job of encouraging black students to find their inner-core and in giving them confidence to pursue their dreams. For those reasons, alone, and the still lingering effect of slavery and Jim Crow, HBCU’s are very much vitally needed. They must continue to be one of the components in the nation’s educational system.
ohreally - October 19, 2010 at 12:38 pm
Hmm, “I find the idea of race-based institutions of higher education very disturbing in this day and age.” I find the need for them–and I do believe there is a need for them–to be far more disturbing. Do you want to see disturbing, look at how our educational, social-service, and correctional institutions are harming black people. If you want to see disturbing, see how the US labor market systematically discriminates. It is sad to me that our society is so ill, and so many people are so poorly informed about these ills, that we still need such institutions.
goxewu - October 20, 2010 at 11:47 am
Re krtaylor:
1. I didn’t say that krtaylor is predictable, only that his comment–someone having gone to X college being fiercely and emotionally loyal to same–is.
2. I didn’t agree with everything that krtaylor said. For instance, krtaylor said that HBCU’s have been “under-ranked” (which means, à la “underrated,” deserving of a higher ranking than they have), and I said that they probably serve the rankings they get, although the cause of the low rankings owes largely to their being, as krtaylor admits, under-funded. So, no agreement there.
3. What’s the difference between HBCUs’ missions, which krtaylor doesn’t want to see abolished, and explicitly serving a particular demographic (i.e., black students), which krtaylor is untrue of HBCUs? Isn’t explicitly serving the demographic of black students exactly what the mission of HBCUs is?
4. Could krtaylor elaborate on exactly what he means by “HBCU graduates do better” than African-American graduates of MWI or PWI colleges and universities?
5. “Do you know what’s it like to attend a majority white institution as a black man?” No, I don’t, and it probably has its difficulties, just as being a member of a 10-12% minority of the population has its difficulties. Nevertheless, the maintenance of a de facto segregated college system in which the humanities curriculum is more tailored to the wants of the de facto segregated student body seems like a less than ideal solution to those difficulties. HBCUs have, over the past 40 years or so, in a situation similar to women’s colleges; once the more prestigious formerly all-male schools (belatedly and reluctantly) opened their doors to women, women’s colleges began to decline in number, eventually quite precipitously. Today, there are relatively few; although their number includes some great ones (Smith, Mt. Holyoke, Scripps, etc.) women’s colleges have become a relatively small niche market. And only a rare few are taxpayer-supported.
6. If “diversity” is a serious issue with krtaylor (“This conversations lead me to ask- (HONESTLY) How diverse are MWI?”), then he might also ask, honestly, how diverse are HBCUs?
lkitchiner - October 21, 2010 at 3:24 pm
I am curious as to why conversations of this sort center on HBCUs exclusively. Shouldn’t we also consider Native American and Hispanic institutions of higher learning?
nguerrier - October 22, 2010 at 1:58 am
1. Most African American students continue to report lingering classroom conflict with many non-Black faculties (in particular Whites)
2. Predominantly White Institutions have failed miserably in providing a culturally sensitive campus environment for Black students and faculties
3. HBCUs continue to adhere to a tradition of providing Black faculties whose history and culture align with those of the Black students
4. HBCUs not only provide post-secondary school education but unlike PWIs, these institutions place equal emphasis on providing a caring and nurturing environment that has been shown to be more suitable for Black student development and growth.
5. As for the notion that a 21st century institution should not be race based—-that message needs to be sent to majority of PWIs institutions who continue to have ceilings and quotas on the number of African American students and staff permitted on their premises—unless of course one is operating under the mindset that “White” is not race!!!!
goxewu - October 22, 2010 at 10:20 am
Re nguerrier:
1. Most? And what does “lingering” mean?
2. Some specifics? “A culturally sensitive campus environment” is a terribly elastic term; could nguerrier care to clarify it a bit?
3. Which means what?
4. Again, a little clarification: What does “a caring and nurturing environment” mean, exactly? And what evidence shows it to “be more suitable for Black student development and growth”?
5. Could nguerrier provide some concrete evidence as to “ceilings and quotas on the number of African American students and staff permitted on their premises”? (The people who usually argue that there are “quotas” of African-American students admitted to PWIs are anti-affirmative-action types who think that too many under-qualified African-American applicants are admitted because of AA.)
wturnertsu - October 22, 2010 at 4:31 pm
Neguerrier, I dare you, and any other like-minded person, to compare the actual academic work of white and black students, and the grades assigned for each, attending PWI’s universities and colleges, particularly in professional. Once you cut-through the fluff and deal specifically with the most-germane answers, you’ll find that the percentage of blacks giving the correct answers are comparable to the percentage of whites giving the correct answer. What is different is that the percentage of whites who gave incorrect answers or incomplete correct answers, but were permitted to advance or matriculate, is much greater than blacks who gave comparable incorrect or incomplete answers.
Professors have, and often use, limited discretion in grading, especially in certain courses, don’t they! What influences the application or utilization of discretionary authority or power? In the courtroom, we know that race, class, gender, looks, etc., trigger various outcomes that we know are the direct consequence of the exercise of discretion. Those same variables or characteristic are at play in the courtroom. Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder; although too many at HBCU’s are conflicted about the subject, far too many, within American society, are thoroughly convinced that the appearance of the women usually selected queen of this or queen of that in national pageants represent the height of beauty. It is a given: Blacks and whites have different standards of beauty. Blacks are graded differently at PWI’s. More often than one would suspect, the grades they receive reflect the biases of those who administered the grades. Whereas a Black man is vieed as being aggressive and uncooperative, his white counterpart is viewed as being persistent and determined.
Peoples, America has not overcome the original-sin of slavery. Slavery could only exist, if racism existed and remained strong. Slavery was an expedient means for some to get rich and to maintain political power. Slavery, in the purest sense, was abolished. The same people who gained economic and political advantages while slavery existed left offsprings, offsprings who have no intention of voluntarily relinquishing those advantages, despite the abolishment of slavery. To get ahead, in America, most people agree that it is best achieved by attaining degrees/profession. Most professions, despite having degrees, only become truly professional after a period, perhaps years, of practice. To practice, one must first possess the degree, And, of course, pass a battery of tests, in order to become licensed. Another word for licensed is CERTIFIED. Even to set for the tests, one must meet certain standards re character, which have nothing, whatsoever to do with academic performance.
The bottom-line, peoples, is this: boards of this and boards of that are hand-picked. Money and politics determine whether ones sets on a board and decide who will be a doctor, nurse, lawyer, teacher, etc. If race still matters, and I’m convinced it does, then the number of individuals who make it to the point of being professionals is greatly skewed in favor of the dominant group and it has nothing, whatsoever to do with the intellect or academic performance of the that group, but rather, their race!
To get Blacks to the point where they can, at least have the various boards CHECK THEIR CHARACTER, HBCU’s must provide the entrance point, where their appearance and character won’t be as much of an impediment to their receiving a FAIR GRADE, which, eventually will give them the opportunity to enter professional schools and possibly become doctors, lawyers, accountants and such!
wturnertsu - October 22, 2010 at 4:34 pm
CHARACTERISTICS AT PLAY IN THE CLASSROOM!
wturnertsu - October 22, 2010 at 4:41 pm
My apology, Nguerrier. The above post was directed to goxewu and other such like-minded folks who seems oblivious to the impact of race in American society and her academic centers, and, by extension, professional classes.
goxewu - October 23, 2010 at 10:59 am
wturnertsu’s long comment possesses the same basic flaw as ngueerier’s, which is to say it consists of a lot of editorial heat and no factual light. One would appreciate from wturnerstu:
* Some facts about the alleged discrepancy in grading of academic work by blacks and whites in PWIs.
* Some facts about substandard white students being allowed to advance, and qualified black students not being allowed to advance in PWIs.
* An elaboration on “boards of this and boards of that are hand-picked.” (Of course they are–in an attempt to get people who can, by expertise, clout or money, help the organization or school–even the boards of HBCUs.)
* Some evidence about black male students who are as persisten and determined as white students being viewed as aggressive and uncooperative.
I’m going to make a guess that wturner is some at, or from, Texas Southern University, an HBCU. If that’s correct, then wsturner’s rather disjointed rant (e.g., hauling in beauty contests*), which exudes a somewhat victim mentality that doesn’t seem to have been helped–but instead rather exacerbated–by a de facto segregated university. Based on the quality of krtaylor’s, nguerrier’s and wsturner’s discourse, it hardly seems that HBCUs are an educational answer to the racism still present in American society. Indeed, the rightness of Mr. Vedder’s suggestion that HBCUs move toward being simply CUs is only reinforced by the comments of krtaylor, nguerrier and wsturner.
goxewu - October 23, 2010 at 11:06 am
* Studies over the years have revealed a surprising cross-cultural consensus on human beauty. Some particulars vary from race to race and place to place, but overall, they’re surprisingly consistent. This wikiepdia article is a good place to start: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_attractiveness
niaimani - October 23, 2010 at 6:46 pm
As a proud HBCU graduate from Florida A&M University (a public HBCU) I found Vedder’s position on HBCUs alarming. The role of HBCUs are multifaceted and remains as prevalant today as they were when first established. Along with attending and graduating from FAMU I also attended Florida State University for my master’s degree. I am a grounded, successful, and proud to be a HBCU graduate. HBCUs offers a sense of community, identity, and visibility that are rare within PWI’s.
The downfall for HBCUs is the lack of support, respect, encouragement, and financial resources by the masses. When comparing HBCU’s to Harvard, Yale, and other IVY leagues schools I am reminded of the the recent article about a college student (16 years old)that selected FAMU over Harvard. Harvard although excellent for liberal arts is not a premier school for engineering. Individuals Black or White select schools based on their interests and based on which univeristy will best serve that need. The desire to attend a HBCU is a personal decision. Attending a HBCU is not a death sentence and does not suggest that one will not be successful. I am a product of a family with many HBCU graduates as well as having family members that attended PWI’s to include Wellesley.
At the end of the day HBCU’s were needed then and now.
rlpe8931 - October 23, 2010 at 8:53 pm
There needs to be a more complicated analysis of the role that HBCU’s now play—and I want to emphasize the word now. Although I’m a proud graduate of an HBCU, I can acknowledge that a sizable number of HBCU’s are not what the used to be. In fact, some of them no longer need to be degree-granting institutions because they don’t have enough resources to offer the kind of quality education their students desperately need. To be more specific, I’m referring to a group of HBCU’s that are barely getting by. The accreditation of the schools that make up this particular group is regularly in jeopardy because the schools within this group are often very poorly managed and too poorly funded.
Also, to suggest that HBCU’s are the only schools that are more willing to give socioeconomically disadvantaged black youth a shot is an expression that is rooted in myth rather than reality. Let’s not forget community colleges and the current role they play in educating socioeconomically disadvantaged people. In fact, community colleges are oftentimes probably a better option because: 1) they’re significantly less expensive than most schools, including HBCU’s; 2) they are very often better equipped to carry out the kind of remediation that a lot HBCU students need; 3) and they are feeder schools for many public universities whose affordability and graduation rates for black students are higher than the affordability and graduation rate of the average HBCU.
However, I must admit, it is very true that HBCU’s have some things that college rankings don’t do enough to consider or don’t consider at all. Cultural pride and historical legacy come to mind. As many HBCU alumni and faculty who have posted comments here before me can attest, HBCU’s have historically been and largely continue to be unmatched when comes to exposing poor, young black college students to black men and women who have advanced degrees in a variety of disciplines. Moreover, most HBCU’s are still unrivaled when it comes to making poor, young black people feel like human beings. Most PWI’s still have to do a lot more to make poor, young black students feel comfortable. What’s more, there are scores of PWI’s whose graduation and retention rates are equal to or less than the rates of the average HBCU institution.
However, I still maintain that some HBCU’s shouldn’t be operating as higher institutions in the twenty-first century. These inadequate schools are currently doing more harm than good.